Why is non-consensual release of personal information allowed?

[SaltySpitoon]

Again, read what I said earlier. No one wants to post false Dox. There is no rational reason to post false dox. If a mistake was made, the person posting it would want to correct it asap. There is absolutely no logical reason to post false dox and stand by it. If I scammed you and you posted my dox, would you take my word for it if I told you it was false?

I'll reply to the rest of your comment later as it appears we're not speaking the same language. There is every incentive to post false information alongside a dox, or to post non public information and claim its a dox. Watch this:

"This scammer SaltySpitoon, sold me a bitcoin miner 6 months ago and now I don't want it. He is a scammer and he shot my chicken in the face. I want my money back or I will post his information". And then that gets indexed by search engines. If you pay me, I get money. If you don't then I post your dox alongside my false information and your real name (Ytlas Nootips) is forever tainted even when you conclusively prove I just made that up and you don't even have a chicken.

But again if someone did the above with an alt account to a staff member they'd be banned and the thread deleted. You know that's exactly what would happen, we can even run the experiment if there are any admin volunteers.

You are saying what would someone's motivation be to falsely accuse someone, I was addressing why would anyone ever post incorrect dox. If I scammed someone, and they posted the dox of Sally from Latvia (not me by the way) I'd be tickled that they are blaming someone else. So as far as IDing the wrong person, I mean there is no reason why anyone would do that intentionally. No one moderates false claims, it again is up to individuals to clear there own names. So in the case above, you post your counterstory, if I'm falsely claiming that I should get my money back, I lose my credibility. Your argument could be said about scam accusations and all other things. It is the cost of doing business pseudononymously. It comes back down to what recourse people have. Hurting people's means of personal investigation means there is no recourse for anyone.

Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

Weak.

You are the people I was refering to.

So salty...

Thats why they call me "Salty"Spitoon, but really I try not to call names, what I meant is that just because you couldn't find the threads, doesn't mean others couldn't.

[1715035223]

1715035223

[onemorexmr]

why dont you respect his opinion then and just stop posting a link to his address?
its his property and he can do anything he wants here: in case you forgot

This forum is not his property, nor has he ever claimed that it is.
So how about you STFU since you clearly don't have a clue?

the correct way to deal with something like this is to discuss the problem. not cry and repost over and over again: thats childish...

and its his server: his decision whats saved there
you are free to make your own forum and post any dox you wish.

[Xian01]

Thats why they call me "Salty"Spitoon, but really I try not to call names, what I meant is that just because you couldn't find the threads, doesn't mean others couldn't.

Did you not find it ironic that the post in this thread containing a link to Theymos' dox was deleted ?

How do you reconcile that with Theymos' dox apparently being "easily located and available for all to find and see elsewhere in these forums" ?

...
the correct way to deal with something like this is...

When mods only remove thermos dick from their throats to lie through their teeth...
I'll try it my way for a bit, see how that goes

why dont you respect his opinion then and just stop posting a link to his address?
its his property and he can do anything he wants here: in case you forgot

This forum is not his property, nor has he ever claimed that it is.
So how about you STFU since you clearly don't have a clue?

So the bundle-of-sticks (Edit -C) deletes my post.  Twice.  
If not obvious, this is Dewar flask's addy

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

...
I found three or so mentions with basic keyword searches, Theymos, Theymos Identity, Theymos Dox, Staff/ Staff Member Dox etc. You can also try google if you would like, there are a couple threads that come up that way too. ...

Bullshit.

Fun game to try at home:

1. go to (nuked URL - we all know what happens when Thermos' dox are posted -C)

2. copy the public message attached to the last transaction.

3. try posting it on bitcointalk

4. enjoy [instantly] losing your account

Edit (spoiler): https://i.imgur.com/EZifOg6.png

~~The Streisand Experience

[SaltySpitoon]

Did you not find it ironic that the post in this thread containing a link to Theymos' dox was deleted ?

How do you reconcile that with Theymos' dox apparently being "easily located and available for all to find and see elsewhere in these forums" ?

Not at all, I find it funny that people think that they can mass spam something and think that they wont be banned or at least have their posts deleted for spamming. As I said, there are a few threads in meta discussing Theymos' dox as well as where to find it and links, etc. Its not a secret, he has posted a lot of the info himself. If we all start posting "Bananas are vegetables" and people start having the post removed or are banned for repeating it, does that mean Bitcointalk has an agenda against lies about Bananas?

The results would be the same if the link was about an Alt Coin, Bananas, or Theymos or anyone else's dox for that matter.

*edit* just like the person who was just banned for having their message deleted 3+ times and they kept reposting it. It has less to do with the content, and more to do with the spam.

[Xian01]

As I said, there are a few threads in meta discussing Theymos' dox as well as where to find it and links, etc. Its not a secret, he has posted a lot of the info himself.

Could you please be a mensch and kindly post links to the threads ? I was not able to find his dox using the searches you described.

... or are you merely referring to the name "Michael Marquardt" being allowed to be uttered in these hallowed halls ?

[worhiper_-_]

What I find most ironic about this is that someone must've went out of his way to program the forum detecting and instantly banning users for posting what's essentially a link. There must be no other case that this is happening. I've seen this forum being flocked by xrumer bots trying to promote stuff completely not related to bitcoin, such posts wouldn't get removed until a mod saw them. Yet you make such a huge exception only for what's the alleged dox of a bitcointalk staffer because it's spam.

And please don't get me wrong. I like this forum and admire theymos, I'm not willing to attack anyone here. But a forum mod supporting doxing directly contradicts what this forum is doing with this certain link. You might as well accept that SaltySpitoon and stop trying to dodge this argument.

[nrbfk]

*edit* just like the person who was just banned for having their message deleted 3+ times and they kept reposting it. It has less to do with the content, and more to do with the spam.

Have you completely missed the point?  If one tries to post that blockchain link, THE FORUM SOFTWARE AUTOMATICALLY BANS THE ACCOUNT.
This is the error message you get upon hitting "Save": https://i.imgur.com/EZifOg6.png

You claim that his dox are posted on bitcointalk?  Link?

[SaltySpitoon]

What I find most ironic about this is that someone must've went out of his way to program the forum detecting and instantly banning users for posting what's essentially a link. There must be no other case that this is happening. I've seen this forum being flocked by xrumer bots trying to promote stuff completely not related to bitcoin, such posts wouldn't get removed until a mod saw them. Yet you make such a huge exception only for what's the alleged dox of a bitcointalk staffer because it's spam.

And please don't get me wrong. I like this forum and admire theymos, I'm not willing to attack anyone here. But a forum mod supporting doxing directly contradicts what this forum is doing with this certain link. You might as well accept that SaltySpitoon and stop trying to dodge this argument.

There is a link blacklist tool used for a lot of the common advertising spam links. It just needs to be annoying enough to add it to the list, and its added. Id imagine the link that people keep posting was flagged enough as spam to be added. If Theymos has scammed you and post his dox, you won't be banned, nor will you be banned for posting anyone's dox with the exceptions given earlier in the thread.

The only reason I care about this thread is because I see this every day with a different cause and it bothers me at the core. Something is corrupt or wrong because every time someone posts it it gets deleted! But it keeps getting deleted because people keep posting it, and it becomes spam. "Hey guys post this just because" is a good way to make something spam. Like I said, "Bananas are vegetables" if people decided to run with it, I wouldn't be surprised to see "Bananas are vegetables" to become something people are auto banned for as well.

[Xian01]

Something is corrupt or wrong because every time someone posts it it gets deleted! But it keeps getting deleted because people keep posting it, and it becomes spam.

So, are you a "The chicken came first", or "The egg came first" kinda guy ?

[SaltySpitoon]

As I said, there are a few threads in meta discussing Theymos' dox as well as where to find it and links, etc. Its not a secret, he has posted a lot of the info himself.

Could you please be a mensch and kindly post links to the threads ? I was not able to find his dox using the searches you described.

... or are you merely referring to the name "Michael Marquardt" being allowed to be uttered in these hallowed halls ?

Its a no win situation for me, I can post the links, and then you or someone else will go spam in that thread until the thread is deleted or you are banned, furthering your "cause". You can choose to believe me or not, I don't especially care. I've pretty much elaborated on anything that could be construed as a constructive question or debate, so its up to you to either get it or not. I'm not the morality/policy police. Not my job to make you happy about the policies here. If I can help you understand why they are in place, great, if not, no point in beating a dead horse.

Something is corrupt or wrong because every time someone posts it it gets deleted! But it keeps getting deleted because people keep posting it, and it becomes spam.

So, are you a "The chicken came first", or "The egg came first" kinda guy ?

Generally I'm a case by case sort of guy, but being around here for years you start to see trends.

[nrbfk]

...
There is a link blacklist tool used for a lot of the common advertising spam links. ...

More bullshit.
Try posting the address alone -- same results.
The script looks for [relatively short, from the few tests I've done] strings that make up the address & the bitcoin addy in the link.

... You can choose to believe me or not ...

Everything I say could be verified by anyone willing to make & lose an account.  Reproducibility is mine.

You ask to be trusted.  In a thread where your honesty is called into question.  SassySpittoon!

[worhiper_-_]

What I find most ironic about this is that someone must've went out of his way to program the forum detecting and instantly banning users for posting what's essentially a link. There must be no other case that this is happening. I've seen this forum being flocked by xrumer bots trying to promote stuff completely not related to bitcoin, such posts wouldn't get removed until a mod saw them. Yet you make such a huge exception only for what's the alleged dox of a bitcointalk staffer because it's spam.

And please don't get me wrong. I like this forum and admire theymos, I'm not willing to attack anyone here. But a forum mod supporting doxing directly contradicts what this forum is doing with this certain link. You might as well accept that SaltySpitoon and stop trying to dodge this argument.

If Theymos has scammed you and post his dox, you won't be banned, nor will you be banned for posting anyone's dox with the exceptions given earlier in the thread.

Ok, that sounds more fair. But it brings up some other points of mine. Anyone can come here and claim that theymos has scammed them right? Would the claim be enough? Dismissing the claim would count as censorship according to the 'deleting doxing is bad for freedom of speech' mentality.

I've been saying that allowing doxing can be abused because according to the current views (you seem to have) on this, (and correct me if I'm wrong), someone could use bitcointalk to post a scam accusation claiming that he was scammed by someone and include his dox (Motivation to do this could be anything from hate, trolling to actual scamming).

In that case, will you question the validity of his claims? If there's no factual proof of the scamming taking place should the dox remain up? Would you accept counter claims by the accused?

And finally, since I don't see this forum having any handling of takedown notices, is there any way someone could get his dox removed from bitcointalk aside from legal action?

This gets absurdly complicated. I can't speak of actual laws, which are obviously largely ignored in this thread. But the sheer complexity that this reaches is the reason I think doxing should be entirely banned, (ideological and moral reasoning aside).

[tf_banned_acc]

SaltySpitoon, you are severely misinformed on this matter and I'd like to request that you stop speculating, especially since you have the moderator distinction. I respect you and trust that you are not intentionally providing misinformation.

My account, TradeFortress, was banned for mentioning that theymos bans anyone who posts his dox, and a popular bitcoin website where you can find such dox. That reply in this thread was deleted and I received a ban for "trolling". As I'm sure you can understand, there can be no justification that discussing theymos banning people for posting dox, in a thread about "non-consensual release of personal information" is "spam" or "trolling".

Sorry Tf | Banned for mentioning theymo.s dox, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling (45 days)

My understanding is that you are allowed to make an alt account to post in meta and appeal your ban, which is what I am doing.

The automatic ban is not for links, etc. It is for a 10 digit Google voice number in any substring, along with other strings of text and/or numbers. The automatic ban triggers even on substrings -- eg: "dasdasfasf1234567890fsdfds" would be automatically blocked and banned, if 1234567890 was the forbidden number.

I am not sure of your knowledge of the GLBSE fiasco, but back in 2012 when that happened there were numerous semi-substantiated accusations that theymos scammed by failing in his fiduciary duty as a GLBSE stakeholder. I, a GLBSE user who lost money in its shutdown, will be permanently banned if I make a scam accusation against him and post his dox.

Finally, to further refute your "it's banned because people spam it", which is a ridiculous fallacy: There's no undeleted posts about his dox in this forum. Your claim would be proven if you post his dox once, and your post doesn't get deleted. If other "spam" posts get deleted, sure, that will in fact prove your point. The fact is, theymos is blanket banning the posting of his dox, AND selectively banning people who mention the blanket banning of his dox.

Let me make that clear: If theymos has scammed you and you post his dox, you WILL be banned. If you even MENTION that theymos bans people who posts his dox, you can be hit with a 45 day ban for "trolling". SaltySpitoon, you're clearly unaware of what actions are actually being undertaken here. Please don't speculate like you have been and claim that as fact.

[tf_banned_acc]

The ban text was for Trolling.

Outrageous.

Same here

[worhiper_-_]

Oh man, this keeps getting more and more complicated.

With TF risking to push this argument one step further, I'm starting to question the credibility of what SaltySpitoon said. I'm aware that he's an individual holding his own opinions but it's unclear if he was speaking representing the forum's administration board here.

Could we perhaps get a word from theymos on the matter?

[Xian01]

It's a no win situation for me, I can post the links, and then you or someone else will go spam in that thread until the thread is deleted or you are banned, furthering your "cause". You can choose to believe me or not, I don't especially care.

- Appeal to Closure
- Argument from Consequences
- Argumentum ex Silentio
- Essentializing
- There Is No Alternative

[dogie]

There is every incentive to post false information alongside a dox, or to post non public information and claim its a dox. Watch this:

"This scammer SaltySpitoon, sold me a bitcoin miner 6 months ago and now I don't want it. He is a scammer and he shot my chicken in the face. I want my money back or I will post his information". And then that gets indexed by search engines. If you pay me, I get money. If you don't then I post your dox alongside my false information and your real name (Ytlas Nootips) is forever tainted even when you conclusively prove I just made that up and you don't even have a chicken.

But again if someone did the above with an alt account to a staff member they'd be banned and the thread deleted. You know that's exactly what would happen, we can even run the experiment if there are any admin volunteers.

No one moderates false claims, it again is up to individuals to clear there own names. So in the case above, you post your counterstory, if I'm falsely claiming that I should get my money back, I lose my credibility. Your argument could be said about scam accusations and all other things. It is the cost of doing business pseudononymously. It comes back down to what recourse people have. Hurting people's means of personal investigation means there is no recourse for anyone.

You can clear your own name on here, I'd lose my credibility on here, but no one coming from off site is going to read through 20 pages of abuse from a cloud of shills to work out who was right. Especially when trust ratings aren't shown to non logged in users so even the crazies seem moderately not crazy.

You would be permanently damaged and you're saying there is no way for anyone to fix it. I mean, now we're talking lawyers to get such a simple thing fixed.

*edit* just like the person who was just banned for having their message deleted 3+ times and they kept reposting it. It has less to do with the content, and more to do with the spam.

You claim that his dox are posted on bitcointalk?  Link?

Yeah, lets see if admin accounts can get auto banned :/

[Jhanzo]

I'm confused.
what's the point of asking about theymos' dox when the U.S government clearly knows who he is and where he lives? don't tell me you want to send him a postcard or something.

I believe we should not try to dox anyone unless they have done something really wrong.

[dogie]

I'm confused.
what's the point of asking about theymos' dox when the U.S government clearly knows who he is and where he lives? don't tell me you want to send him a postcard or something.

I believe we should not try to dox anyone unless they have done something really wrong.

Admins claim that their own doxes are feely posted on the forum so they can leave everyones doxes. Yet no one can actually find those doxes (meaning they're worthless) and anyone attempting to post them gets auto banned.

[Blazed]

I'm confused.
what's the point of asking about theymos' dox when the U.S government clearly knows who he is and where he lives? don't tell me you want to send him a postcard or something.

I believe we should not try to dox anyone unless they have done something really wrong.

I think the point is that if true we have a double standard is all.