Why is non-consensual release of personal information allowed?

[dogie]

1. Is TF still banned?
2. Has there been any progress in moving doxes a non indexed section?

[thoth-Atlantian]

dont know how I ended up reading this thread...


But yeah totes.

except the Crypsty thread, that is fair game

[Stratobitz]

This topic caught my eye. I have done a number (quite a lot actually); of successful trades here on Bitcointalk, and have in turn of course released my personal information to the buyer or seller (such as phone, address, etc) for items I sold them, or they sold me.  After I would think dozens if not close to 100 trades, I have never had anyone threaten me to post my personal information online (because there is no need - the trades, at least my part, went smoothly).

There were a few trades where I did in fact have issues fufilling the order, whether it be during a time I had familiy issues or business issues which simply took precedence; but I followed up with the buyer/seller, and made on the order, this being reflected in my feedback.

I would say, communities like eBay, and services like Paypal, all provide a level of accountability, in terms of verified addresses, phone numbers, emails, etc.

This makes people have a level of comfort and security that they won't be scammed or outright robbed.

Bitcoin"talk", is a grassroots community based around the development and discussion of a totally new technology, which happens to be a currency; and a big part of that currency would naturally be "The Marketplace".

Considering that this forum is still in it's development years (although I did see Theymos' new Beta and it looks great); it doesn't yet have features such as verified addresses, buyer protection, and the like, to allow for people to truly feel safe trading in the marketplace.

While outright DOXing someone based on their point of view, opinion, or just a general disagreement should be swiftly handled by moderators, until the forum evolves to a point where buyer and seller safeguards are put into place people may view it as an only recourse if in the event they were robbed, sent money but no goods in return, etc.

I'll give one example: 

- I made a large trade with a buyer on here. It was our 2nd or 3rd trade: So there was an established sense of trust.

- The total purchase was for (off memory) 30 BTC which at the time was roughly $12,000.

- We agreed he would send me 50% first no escrow, I would ship. And he would send the final 50% upon receiving the packages.  (Miners).

- The deal went fine. He paid 15 BTC. I shipped. He paid the final.

- HOWEVER, about 2-3 months later, I got a PM  from a user here on BCT. They informed me they had seen our conversations in the threads, and if I had his information because this user had allegedly accepted BTC as payment, yet never shipped the items.

- The user wanted the person's phone, address, etc.

- While I wasn't and did not provide that to him, I did attempt to try to contact the member (who I had successfully made the trades with); by means of email and phone.

- Unfortunately I was not able to get a response. And I genuinely felt bad for the user who was claiming he had been scammed by the user. But that was personally as far as I was willing to go with the matter- and I let him know that. I tried to contact the member, asking him "this member is trying to reach you, I am just letting you know". But I never heard back, after two attempts. Not much more I could do.

I could see how some people might release that information, and that could lead to an escalation where threats are made, or worse. So I think it's important that if people want to treat Bitcoin as the anonymous currency, they should remain just that. Use burner phones, a PO Box for mail, etc.

But for me, I give buyers my cell, my address, when I ship out my return address to my business is on the label, because I am not out to scam anyone, and have nothing to hide in that sense. I have an eBay seller account and operate under the exact same principles.

I certainly wouldn't want private information posted openly about me on the forum. But after so many trades nothing of the sort has ever happened. I wouldn't expect it to.

But in closing, I do think that the forum, and moderators, should give thought, to more serious offenses of DOXing, such as revenge posts, or those of a malicious nature. These would include posts like ransom demands, posts which include personal information not relating to a Marketplace sale; such as the posting of SSN, photographs identifying the person, etc- that crosses a line.

Just thought I'd weigh in here; hopefully nothing what I posted is too off topic - I didn't read all 12 pages of the thread, but thought I'd throw in my thoughts on in a way "community policing" is "standard policy" until safeguards are developed- which will simply take time.

Strato

[dogie]

Just thought I'd weigh in here; hopefully nothing what I posted is too off topic - I didn't read all 12 pages of the thread, but thought I'd throw in my thoughts on in a way "community policing" is "standard policy" until safeguards are developed- which will simply take time.

You did not, your summary pretty much summarised the sentiments in the thread:

But in closing, I do think that the forum, and moderators, should give thought, to more serious offenses of DOXing, such as revenge posts, or those of a malicious nature.

[otrkid70]

DOX'ing...  I have been Dox before relating to my dog in the Lending section. It doesn't bother me at all but there will come a Day someone will release personal information about a person on here and it will go too far.  There are some Lunatics on here.

Then we will see things like   "Sorry"  "It was a mistake to allow DOX'ing" etc etc. But then it will be too late.

There is a fine line between pointing out scammers with their personal information and an open invitation to cause harm to a person. 

Where and who decides the line?

[dogie]

Where and who decides the line?

Theymos; as it should be. Badbear could probably act if Theymos doesn't have a strong opinion on the matter, but for now they're both quiet.

Its probably hibernation time.

[Stratobitz]

DOX'ing...  I have been Dox before relating to my dog in the Lending section. It doesn't bother me at all but there will come a Day someone will release personal information about a person on here and it will go too far.  There are some Lunatics on here.

Then we will see things like   "Sorry"  "It was a mistake to allow DOX'ing" etc etc. But then it will be too late.

There is a fine line between pointing out scammers with their personal information and an open invitation to cause harm to a person. 

Where and who decides the line?

My view is that there must be a reason to post personal, non-published information which would, to the person whom is being "DOX'd" consider private.

As an example: A single user enters into an agreement to buy item X.  Buyer sends payment based on sellers trust/feedback. Item never shows up. Prior to sale, buyer did discuss, via email, and phone, the details of the purchase. As such, he/she has personal information.

This would be in my opinion not a valid reason to post said information. The buyer can post feedback/negative trust, perhaps write a post in the appropriate thread regarding the scam/deal gone wrong.

But echoing otrkid70, there are a lot of crazy people on the net, and here, everywhere.

This example is simply a guy got ripped off. So he should go after him. Revenge, by DOX'ing is not the answer.

EXAMPLE TWO:

A seller of items has been selling high quantities of items. Large quantities of items, and BTC. Then, an exit scam takes place. This person could also be a company, a large company, small, but scale is key.

The aftermath leads to a number of posts in the SCAM thread, and users joining together to seek recourse. As information comes in, it turns out nearly 100 users were scammed of a sum in excess of 500 BTC.

This in my opinion falls more under "class action" on a grass roots level. There is a "community interest" in finding the person who caused financial harm, to so many, so that it doesnt happen again.

If someone has the guts to scam 100 people out of $200,000. They better have had their cards lined up in terms of their exit plan... because with that many people and that amount of money... people will come looking.

My opinion. Only that.