Obama issues executive order claiming power to seize Americans' bank accounts

[Paul Troon]

...

The plans Obama has put in place during his term have a) helped get me healthcare, and b) helped lower my student loan payments by consolidating with the department of Ed. And now his JOBS Act will help to jump start my company.

So you are voting for Obama despite him being such a cheap bastard as to not a) pay for 100% of your healthcare b) forgive all of your student loans and c) eliminate all payroll taxes instead of a measly $245B worth?  lets add a "chicken in every pot" while we're at it too.

Your vote has been bought cheaply my friend.

The choice this November isn't between Obama and Romney - it is between staying to watch the train wreck close up or leaving to watch from a distance.

[1714193426]

1714193426

[1714193426]

1714193426

[1714193426]

1714193426

[jasinlee]

Train wrecks are awesome, and when this titanic hits the bottom, Canada here I come.

[myrkul]

Train wrecks are awesome, and when this titanic hits the bottom, Canada here I come.

So you can watch that trainwreck, too?

[jasinlee]

More wilderness, I can stay away from it easier there.

[Korbman]

I love how people think they HAVE to vote for the twin-headed dragon every single fucking election.

The reason other independent parties never have a chance is because everybody refuses to leave the two-party lines and then proceed to bitch about how 'broken' our political system is. Have some backbone, stand up for what you believe in for once instead of one of the two identical people shoved down your throat by the media because "hey, at-least my candidate isn't as bad as the OTHER candidate".

Unfortunately, they never have a chance because they never gain enough credibility in the masses. Just because we (in reference to our community) would rather see someone other than the two popular candidates, doesn't mean the other 240+ million voters agree. That's why I, and many millions of others, focus on the lesser of two evils to receive our votes. Having some "backbone" and "standing up for what you believe" is all well and good, but in the broad view it won't make much of a difference.  

Perhaps I was not clear. To rephrase: Since a) either Obama or Romney is going to be in the office no matter what, and b) Obama and Romney are essentially identical, Why vote for either? Why, in fact, vote at all, since whichever way you vote, it's wasted?

Hmm, fair point and I see what you're saying. That said, I can honestly say I don't have an answer to respond with.



Side Note: I like how this thread went from an article the OP submitted to a debate about voting

[Korbman]

So you are voting for Obama despite him being such a cheap bastard as to not a) pay for 100% of your healthcare b) forgive all of your student loans and c) eliminate all payroll taxes instead of a measly $245B worth?  lets add a "chicken in every pot" while we're at it too.

Lol what are you even talking about?

[myrkul]

Perhaps I was not clear. To rephrase: Since a) either Obama or Romney is going to be in the office no matter what, and b) Obama and Romney are essentially identical, Why vote for either? Why, in fact, vote at all, since whichever way you vote, it's wasted?

Hmm, fair point and I see what you're saying. That said, I can honestly say I don't have an answer to respond with.

That point was the final straw that tipped me over into Anarchism. To quote Emma Goldman,  "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

Side Note: I like how this thread went from an article the OP submitted to a debate about voting

Yeah.... That happens. Pretty much every thread gets down to base principles pretty quick. Which base principle can sometimes be predicted from the OP, but not always.

[RATM69]

Rommey or Obama are more of the same... nothing will change until Ron Paul or similar get to office.
[/quote]

I agree but still think Romney will be the lesser of the 2 evils even though I don't totally believe in everything he stands for.

[myrkul]

I agree but still think Romney will be the lesser of the 2 evils even though I don't totally believe in everything he stands for.

Well, if it's a choice between evil and less evil, why stop at "less evil"?

Go big or go home, baby.

[Korbman]

I agree but still think Romney will be the lesser of the 2 evils even though I don't totally believe in everything he stands for.

Well, if it's a choice between evil and less evil, why stop at "less evil"?

Go big or go home, baby.

HA!! +1

err.. +666 ...that's better

[Explodicle]

they never gain enough credibility in the masses.

That's why I, and many millions of others...

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but we ARE the "masses". There's a 50% chance that each of us is below average intelligence, but we all insist that we're in the upper half. To top it off, I hear the EXACT same rationale from everyone else who votes Republican/Democrat. They're all just trying to save the country from those fascists/communists on the "other side".

You aren't so smart. Neither am I. When everyone oh-so-cleverly tries to game the system instead of just voting for who they like best, this is what we get. If we all voted for who we thought was best, we'd all be better off. Maybe I'm naive for thinking enough people might grow a concience to make a difference, but there's a lot of naive masses out there just like me, and I'd feel like I lost even if I voted for the Republicrat who won.

[SgtSpike]

The plans Obama has put in place during his term have a) helped get me healthcare, and b) helped lower my student loan payments by consolidating with the department of Ed. And now his JOBS Act will help to jump start my company.

Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

Similarly, this is why you see college campuses filled with liberal-minded people - they aren't working for a living yet, and don't understand how their utopian dreams have real-world consequences. It's why those same people eventually turn conservative when they get out in "the real world" and begin to tire of seeing people gaming the system, stealing their tax dollars to sit on the couch and watch TV while they work hard to provide for themselves.

It's sad, really.  More and more of the US populace is dependent on government aid, and that's only our own doing, electing people who give out money like it has no consequence.  The easier it is to acquire free aid from the government (and it seems to be getting easier every day), the more people we will find who choose to not work a day in their lives, the less productive our country will be, and the more difficult it will be to balance the governmental budget without increasing taxes heavily.

Think about more than just the benefits you are receiving today.  Think about how those benefits will affect your tomorrow.

[phelix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtAiZLFRntk

Poor USA. Only two real parties... 

[myrkul]

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

[Korbman]

Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

Ah yes, paying for things with taxes. Last I checked, that's how things worked in every developed country. And I pay taxes. I pay Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare, and Capital Gains. And you know what? Tax me a bit more..especially if it helps to subsidize the $160 a month I pay in health insurance...or if it helps my sister avoid $430 a month in healthcare premiums because she has a preexisting condition.

But let me guess...none of this applies to you. Do you have to worry about healthcare? Do you have to worry about absurd education costs? Guess what, in my experience and where I'm from the "working class" doesn't. Know why? Because they never pursued higher education (they barely finished high school), so they never have to worry about paying $550 a month in student loans as I do. They work in Unions, which provide ample pay and healthcare coverage.

My friend, it doesn't matter what party you're in or who you vote for that causes you to understand personal responsibility and sustainability. Regardless of who is brought into Office, America really needs to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and join the ranks of more developed countries like Canada, Greenland, Spain, France, United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, Australia, and tons of others. Each of those countries is better at taking care of their citizens than we are.

Similarly, this is why you see college campuses filled with liberal-minded people - they aren't working for a living yet, and don't understand how their utopian dreams have real-world consequences. It's why those same people eventually turn conservative when they get out in "the real world" and begin to tire of seeing people gaming the system, stealing their tax dollars to sit on the couch and watch TV while they work hard to provide for themselves.

Ah yes, college churns out liberals every day! Do you know why that is? I think the term is "Education"...

And to-date, I have never met an intelligent, college educated, "liberal" who joined the ranks of the "real world" and turned conservative..."liberal" is the term for a crazy leftist, just as "conservative" is the term for a crazy rightist. To switch sides that easily would you mean you're either incredibly mentally unstable, or just easily persuaded without any effort. I've lived in four states and visited dozens, and I have never encountered this phenomenon. Where do you live were you apparently see it often?

It's sad, really.  More and more of the US populace is dependent on government aid, and that's only our own doing, electing people who give out money like it has no consequence.  The easier it is to acquire free aid from the government (and it seems to be getting easier every day), the more people we will find who choose to not work a day in their lives, the less productive our country will be, and the more difficult it will be to balance the governmental budget without increasing taxes heavily.

[sarcasm] Definitely. Don't you know, 47% of American's depend on the government for every whim! It must be true because a Republican stated it behind closed doors at an all white...whoops, I mean "rich"...dinner party, and Fox News said so. [/sarcasm]

Think about more than just the benefits you are receiving today.  Think about how those benefits will affect your tomorrow.

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

[myrkul]

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

But I thought you said you were voting for Obama?

[Korbman]

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

But I thought you said you were voting for Obama?

Ha! touché 

[Littleshop]

Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 

I do not like Obama care, but the cost of the program is not nearly as great as partisans imply.  A properly designed program (which Obamacare is NOT) could save a huge amount of money for this country. 

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

That is just pure propaganda.   Your smarter then that (I hope).

We really need voters who look deeper into the issues.   People who do not follow party over country.  Right now you will not ever balance the budget without compromise.  Both Obama and Romney have drawn lines in the sand that if they stick to them will bankrupt this country. 

[bb113]

Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

Ah yes, paying for things with taxes. Last I checked, that's how things worked in every developed country. And I pay taxes. I pay Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare, and Capital Gains. And you know what? Tax me a bit more..especially if it helps to subsidize the $160 a month I pay in health insurance...or if it helps my sister avoid $430 a month in healthcare premiums because she has a preexisting condition.

But let me guess...none of this applies to you. Do you have to worry about healthcare? Do you have to worry about absurd education costs? Guess what, in my experience and where I'm from the "working class" doesn't. Know why? Because they never pursued higher education (they barely finished high school), so they never have to worry about paying $550 a month in student loans as I do. They work in Unions, which provide ample pay and healthcare coverage.

My friend, it doesn't matter what party you're in or who you vote for that causes you to understand personal responsibility and sustainability. Regardless of who is brought into Office, America really needs to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and join the ranks of more developed countries like Canada, Greenland, Spain, France, United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, Australia, and tons of others. Each of those countries is better at taking care of their citizens than we are.

Similarly, this is why you see college campuses filled with liberal-minded people - they aren't working for a living yet, and don't understand how their utopian dreams have real-world consequences. It's why those same people eventually turn conservative when they get out in "the real world" and begin to tire of seeing people gaming the system, stealing their tax dollars to sit on the couch and watch TV while they work hard to provide for themselves.

Ah yes, college churns out liberals every day! Do you know why that is? I think the term is "Education"...

And to-date, I have never met an intelligent, college educated, "liberal" who joined the ranks of the "real world" and turned conservative. I've lived in four states and visited dozens, and I have never encountered this phenomenon. Where do you live were you apparently see it often?

It's sad, really.  More and more of the US populace is dependent on government aid, and that's only our own doing, electing people who give out money like it has no consequence.  The easier it is to acquire free aid from the government (and it seems to be getting easier every day), the more people we will find who choose to not work a day in their lives, the less productive our country will be, and the more difficult it will be to balance the governmental budget without increasing taxes heavily.

[sarcasm] Definitely. Don't you know, 47% of American's depend on the government for every whim! It must be true because a Republican stated it behind closed doors at an all white...whoops, I mean "rich"...dinner party, and Fox News said so. [/sarcasm]

Think about more than just the benefits you are receiving today.  Think about how those benefits will affect your tomorrow.

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

If you still think college=learning or insurance=good healthcare, I don't think your education was worth it. I guess I didn't realize it until about 3 years into grad school though. The college liberals don't understand the world around them at all, I should know since I was one. All the things you mentioned that you think is helping you and others are actually slow scams. They are ponzi schemes become jobs programs the government had to step in and force people to participate in once they got too big to fail, every now and then something of value comes out of it but that is not the main purpose.

[bb113]

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 

Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.