How FAIR are those provably fair games?

[pilscoop]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

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[rz20]

They can't be rigged if they have a properly implemented nonce like primedice or magicaldice.

What can happen is the site running out with the funds, but if you just deposit and play in trusted places you shouldn't have any problem.

Just don't play in flash casinos without provably fair systems because they will change the odds in their favor (flash roulette, bj or slots)

[1gallon]

try sites that have been proven to pay out to people for at least a while.

(PREFERRED) safedice has been a good place for me, and admin has always been very active.(active mods)

primedice has a lot of activity and full of users as well and do payout as well (lots of active mods)

the other one i go to a lot is coinichiwa but they have been slow at responding to things. (inactive mods)

[CPULoyal]

The games are as fair as the algorithm used, which can be  trusted and proved. Nevertheless, there's and edge in every game, which is only the safeguard used by all the casinos to protect them from losing if by chance a player has a winning streak.

[NLNico]

It is important to realize that provably fair only works when you actually verify your bet outcomes. Some implementations are worse than others too. If you like to understand the basics of provably fair I advise to read my article: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

There has been at least 2 clear cases of rigging the players even with provably fair, both at scam site dicebitco.in. This was detected because some people actually verified their bet outcomes. If no one verified their bet outcomes, no one would ever know.

[Franciem]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

Im never trust all dice is fair
some of dice use fake provably fair

[nickaizoku]

I know provably fair is FAIR..
Somehow i feel like doesnt trust this system  ,
even with 88% winning chance. I can bust it with 1st roll.. morever my 1st deposit and all it in. Maybe luck not by my side.

[btcscriptpremium]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

They are all "rigged" as they need to make money. Usually house edge is around 1% or sometimes less.
But provably fair ensures that the house can't "cheat". They cant give you wins on low amounts then losses on high amounts or anything like that. Its all mathematically proven and are therefore fair.

[Herbert2020]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

They are all "rigged" as they need to make money. Usually house edge is around 1% or sometimes less.
But provably fair ensures that the house can't "cheat". They cant give you wins on low amounts then losses on high amounts or anything like that. Its all mathematically proven and are therefore fair.

they are not rigged, at least not all of them. the fact that we can not win in gambling and especially dice which is the most popular way of gambling, is that these games are designed this way so that we lose at some point and never keep on winning. otherwise the site would go bankrupt.

[rivoke]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

They are quite fair as long as you can verify and understand how to do it.
Every trusted gambling site offering verifier tab to check whenever your bet being cheated or not

[ndnh]

Do not confuse provably "fair" with edge. A site can have 99% house edge, and still be provably fair.

The correct implementation of provably fair means the game is not rigged.

[fox19891989]

I see u guys said it is not rigged, I don't think so. How can you guys explain nitrogen sports' provably fair blackjack, too many people complain  their blackjack is 100% rigged, when you get 20, dealer gets 21, when you get 19, dealer gets 20 or 21, when you get 18, dealer gets 19,20,21, when you get 17, dealer gets 18,19,20,21, i estimate players have 20% winning rate on their bj, which is highly suspicious, although nitrogen claims it is a provably fair blackjack.

[Herbert2020]

I see u guys said it is not rigged, I don't think so. How can you guys explain nitrogen sports' provably fair blackjack, too many people complain  their blackjack is 100% rigged, when you get 20, dealer gets 21, when you get 19, dealer gets 20 or 21, when you get 18, dealer gets 19,20,21, when you get 17, dealer gets 18,19,20,21, i estimate players have 20% winning rate on their bj, which is highly suspicious, although nitrogen claims it is a provably fair blackjack.

nobody claimed that "all" of the gambling sites are provably fair. i am not saying what you are talking about (nitrogen sports) is fair or not, because i have never heard about it since now.
anyways you should always check provably fair yourself or read what others write as feedback if you don't know how to do it.

[NLNico]

I see u guys said it is not rigged, I don't think so. How can you guys explain nitrogen sports' provably fair blackjack, too many people complain  their blackjack is 100% rigged, when you get 20, dealer gets 21, when you get 19, dealer gets 20 or 21, when you get 18, dealer gets 19,20,21, when you get 17, dealer gets 18,19,20,21, i estimate players have 20% winning rate on their bj, which is highly suspicious, although nitrogen claims it is a provably fair blackjack.

Like I said:

It is important to realize that provably fair only works when you actually verify your bet outcomes. Some implementations are worse than others too. If you like to understand the basics of provably fair I advise to read my article: http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

In the case of NS BJ, the implementation is really bad indeed. Like most BJ games TBH, generally dice sites have better provably fair implementations. You have to do this to make sure it's fair:

1) Open provably fair tab
2) Copy "Next Hash" (note: you cannot easily copy this, you must be using browser developer tools to do this)
3) Change client seed (note: they do not generate it in the browser, but they give it in an AJAX request together with serverseed hash, this is bad and you -must- change clientseed every bet because of this)
4) Make the bet
5) Open provably fair tab
6) Compare "Deck Hash" with copied hash
7) Go to external verifier and fill in all details

And you must do this for every bet.

They can do the following things to improve the implementation:
1. Allow easy copying of "serverseed hash"
2. Generate clientseed in browser after receiving the next serverseed hash
3. External verifier shouldn't include resources from NS
4. Ideally: use nonce-method which allows easier verifying

[JackpotRacer]

In the case of NS BJ, the implementation is really bad indeed. Like most BJ games TBH, generally dice sites have better provably fair implementations. You have to do this to make sure it's fair:

1) Open provably fair tab
2) Copy "Next Hash" (note: you cannot easily copy this, you must be using browser developer tools to do this)
3) Change client seed (note: they do not generate it in the browser, but they give it in an AJAX request together with serverseed hash, this is bad and you -must- change clientseed every bet because of this)
4) Make the bet
5) Open provably fair tab
6) Compare "Deck Hash" with copied hash
7) Go to external verifier and fill in all details

And you must do this for every bet.

and exactly here is the problem as I see it. each player wants to have fun and enjoy the game. but if a player needs to do this procedure for each bet as you described then there is no fun anymore and most of the players will not do it.

They can do the following things to improve the implementation:
1. Allow easy copying of "serverseed hash"
2. Generate clientseed in browser after receiving the next serverseed hash
3. External verifier shouldn't include resources from NS
4. Ideally: use nonce-method which allows easier verifying

if there are better and easier ways to offer provably fair options for a player (handling wise) I am
asking myself why are casino OPs not offering it?

again if a player has to do even the more convenient procedure IMO most of the players
will not do it ( reason for this I explained above)

to be frank I have no clue of this provably fair code. I am a fan of provably fair and it is a must for
every casino to offer it in the best and easiest way for all players.

maybe a stupid question but I was never afraid to ask questions
lets say I play at casino xyz and bet at whatever game they offer. I want to enjoy the game
and will not check or verify each bet if I was cheated or not. now lets say I lost or I have
a bad feeling because the game had strange outcomes (each game can have strange outcomes and it doesn't mean it was a cheat) isn't there a provably fair option that I can check all the bets (history) I did in this session if they were provably fair? I mean after my betting session
if this exists please point me to it to read about it and if it doesn't exist it IMO it should be invented

[NLNico]

IMO a better implementation is with nonce-system. This way a player have to do this:

1. Go to provably fair tab
2. Copy serverseed hash
3. Set clientseed
4. Start betting all you want
5. After you are done with your betting session, go back to provably fair tab
6. Get the serverseed
7. Put the details in a verifier

This will then generate all the bets you made. So you do not have to do it "every bet".


I can come up with limitations here too (if you made hundreds or thousands of bets, obviously you don't have a full history of it, most times only like 30 bets on "my bet" tab.) But I do think it works better in reality than the "per roll" implementation. Especially because most players just check their bets after a losing streak, and this allows to easily verify your latest bets.

I personally think all websites can improve their implementations and I am planning to "review" the provably fair implementation of most popular sites (with clear transparent arguments, nothing subjective.) Just not sure when I have time for it.




To better understand the provably fair mechanism, really do read my article http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

[trafficolaa]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

It seems you have been lost some big amount on any dice site so that can be reason to ask this question whether these are provably fair or not, when we get busted on any losing streak than that is first question which comes in mind this not fair gambling, NLNico describe the method to check any dice site provably fair mechanism so you can understand about this provably fair system.

[JackpotRacer]

IMO a better implementation is with nonce-system. This way a player have to do this:

1. Go to provably fair tab
2. Copy serverseed hash
3. Set clientseed
4. Start betting all you want
5. After you are done with your betting session, go back to provably fair tab
6. Get the serverseed
7. Put the details in a verifier

This will then generate all the bets you made. So you do not have to do it "every bet".


I can come up with limitations here too (if you made hundreds or thousands of bets, obviously you don't have a full history of it, most times only like 30 bets on "my bet" tab.) But I do think it works better in reality than the "per roll" implementation. Especially because most players just check their bets after a losing streak, and this allows to easily verify your latest bets.

I personally think all websites can improve their implementations and I am planning to "review" the provably fair implementation of most popular sites (with clear transparent arguments, nothing subjective.) Just not sure when I have time for it.




To better understand the provably fair mechanism, really do read my article http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

nice to see that it must not be invented as it already exists. I am not sure if I understand it right but did you mean that the length of the possible range to check after the gaming session is 30 bets only or could it be longer if needed?

yes and it is exactly as you said
-Especially because most players just check their bets after a losing streak, and this allows to easily verify your latest bets.-

any answer why it is not a general model that is used in provably fair casinos?

I have read (more than once) the http://dicesites.com/provably-fair but I understand when you are explaining it but I could never implement it in a game.

[neochiny]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

i saw a lot people in sites complaining that provably fair is
really not fair and it is rigged.
but almost all sites telling their sites are fair.
well for me. i think its still fair and not rigged.
but i know that the coder or owner can make it rigged.
making the house more favorable for them.
well this is only my opinion.
goodluck.

[ingiltere]

Can you really trust all the dice and gambling sites with provably fair games? Or are they all rigged?

I don't trust most of the dice sites in Bitcoin business. Right now I only prefer to play at Fortunejack. Other than that we all know what happens in other dice sites, crook owners change codes and you can never win anything from them. Don't play at other dice sites.