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Author Topic: [Resolved] MtGox mishandled sensitive AML info.  (Read 14235 times)
deeplink
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October 18, 2012, 01:14:05 PM
 #61

Meanwhile at MtGox... This is wrong. No reply after 24 hours.

BTW here is another current customer problem, which is handled rather unprofessional and is still not fixed after 2 months:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112922

Don't want to give up on MtGox (yet) but it is really not a good sign if you keep neglecting your customers like this.
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October 18, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
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I already did, you should read the earlier messages

I did. They caused to me ask for a refund from the BF and a termination of my lifetime membership.
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October 18, 2012, 03:18:14 PM
 #63

If the BF fights excessive centralization with two board members serving mt gox interests like twins, the BF is starting off the wrong foot.

My conclusion also.
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October 18, 2012, 03:28:04 PM
 #64

While all of you are complaining and throwing me under the bus,

Incorrect. We're trying to hold accountable the people that we do business with. If you see it as "being thrown under the bus" and legitimate grievances as mere complaints, perhaps you should stay away from customer service. It would have been nice if you came on this thread and said, "This is unacceptable!" and been done with it instead of defending Mtgox.

The CEO of one company defending another CEO and fellow BF board member looks crooked, Charlie. If you can't see that, there's little that I can do to further elucidate the situation for you.
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October 18, 2012, 03:41:02 PM
 #65

While all of you are complaining and throwing me under the bus,

It would have been nice if you came on this thread and said, "This is unacceptable!" and been done with it instead of defending Mtgox.


Ok, I think my comments in my original response were not clear enough, I will update it now. Thanks for your point.


The CEO of one company defending another CEO and fellow BF board member looks crooked, Charlie. If you can't see that, there's little that I can do to further elucidate the situation for you.

You keep making this point that Im defending them, when I've said at least 4 times now I am not. Please stop making that point.

Read my earlier comments, I am not defending them.

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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October 18, 2012, 03:44:31 PM
 #66

Reposted my edit above:

There have been numerous claims that BitInstant is defending MtGox on this issue. This is not the case. What happend here is totally unacceptable and I've even said I think MtGox should pay financially to this customer for the problems.

At the same time, as of now, I am the only one who got in touch with MtGox on behalf of the OP and told them that I believe this is unacceptable.

BitInstant defends the right of every Bitcoiner, regardless if they are a customer of ours or not.

I apologize of my original comment was not clear enough

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October 18, 2012, 03:48:27 PM
 #67


You keep making this point that Im defending them, when I've said at least 4 times now I am not. Please stop making that point.

We have a difference of opinion:

Quote
I wouldn't be too pissed off because its an easy mistake to overlook and can happen to anyone.

Calling it gross incompetence may be out of line. While your information is extremely sensitive, even you could have made the same mistake if you were in their position.

That's a defense, Charlie. It's a classic apologia. The fact that you interjected on this thread at all re: another company is evidence of defense.

Mtgox's actions are gross incompetence. It's moving beyond incompetence into outright dickishness.

Be very careful of what you appear to defend.


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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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October 18, 2012, 03:56:26 PM
 #68


Be very careful of what you appear to defend.


Granted. I made my position more clear.

Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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October 18, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
 #69

Why the hell is the focus of this thread no longer on the issue that the OP and others are having with Gox, and now on Bitinstant? I'm pretty sure Charlie basically said, that things happen, and now its Gox's turn to fix it. He wasn't letting them off the hook, just saying a mistake had been made, and now its time for Gox to fix it. No defending Gox, no attacking Gox, just saying they didn't change the address, so they should fix the entire situation...

The Original Quote from Charlie before he clarified.


They just moved to a new office like 2 weeks ago, and probably forgot to update the address on that page of their website.

Although its their fault, I wouldn't be too pissed off because its an easy mistake to overlook and can happen to anyone.

Calling it gross incompetence may be out of line. While your information is extremely sensitive, even you could have made the same mistake if you were in their position.

To rectify the situation, I suggest MtGox pay for the shipping costs all 3 times. If I were in your shoes, that would make me happy.

Also, the AML rules are not their own, they have to follow the standard of both Japan and the USA (Japan being much more strict) but it allows them to stay operationally legal in both jurisdictions.


In short, It was a mistake that happened, now its time for Gox to pay for the shipping due to their mistake, and fix the situation. Am I not reading deep enough into his words to see the underlying conspiracy?
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October 18, 2012, 04:02:55 PM
 #70

Why the hell is the focus of this thread no longer on the issue that the OP and others are having with Gox, and now on Bitinstant?

Perhaps because Bitinstant's CEO appeared to defend Mtgox's actions instead of Mtgox/Mark showing up on the thread?

Charlie's fixed his end of the deal, imo. I have little hope that Mtgox will do the same.
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October 18, 2012, 04:06:25 PM
 #71

Why the hell is the focus of this thread no longer on the issue that the OP and others are having with Gox, and now on Bitinstant?

Perhaps because Bitinstant's CEO appeared to defend Mtgox's actions instead of Mtgox/Mark showing up on the thread?

Charlie's fixed his end of the deal, imo. I have little hope that Mtgox will do the same.


I see in his original post before he fixed it, "Its their fault", "Calling it gross incompetence may be out of line", and "To rectify the situation, I suggest MtGox pay for the shipping costs all 3 times."

I don't see to much defending besides saying that it was an honest mistake.
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October 18, 2012, 04:09:39 PM
 #72

I don't see to much defending besides saying that it was an honest mistake.

It's obvious incompetence, not an honest mistake.

That was the issue.
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October 18, 2012, 04:16:59 PM
 #73

I don't see to much defending besides saying that it was an honest mistake.

It's obvious incompetence, not an honest mistake.

That was the issue.
I even disagree on that one.  It's an honest mistake the first time, and when it was first pointed out.  It's incompetence that they aren't properly responding and rectifying the situation by now.
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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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October 18, 2012, 04:21:12 PM
 #74

I don't see to much defending besides saying that it was an honest mistake.

It's obvious incompetence, not an honest mistake.

That was the issue.

Yes, and that is your opinion.

However, thats not the issue, so please do not try and divert the debate.

SaltySpitoon is making the point that you were wrong about saying I defended them, which is extremely clear that I did not.

Even though I disagree with you, and my statement on Page 1 clearly shows I was not defending them, for the sake of not arguing, I cleared up my statement.

Just like I clarified my statement, so should you.


You keep making this point that Im defending them, when I've said at least 4 times now I am not. Please stop making that point.

We have a difference of opinion:

Quote
I wouldn't be too pissed off because its an easy mistake to overlook and can happen to anyone.

Calling it gross incompetence may be out of line. While your information is extremely sensitive, even you could have made the same mistake if you were in their position.

That's a defense, Charlie. It's a classic apologia. The fact that you interjected on this thread at all re: another company is evidence of defense.

Mtgox's actions are gross incompetence. It's moving beyond incompetence into outright dickishness.

Be very careful of what you appear to defend.


The proof that I am not defending them:


They just moved to a new office like 2 weeks ago, and probably forgot to update the address on that page of their website.

Although its their fault, I wouldn't be too pissed off because its an easy mistake to overlook and can happen to anyone.

Calling it gross incompetence may be out of line. While your information is extremely sensitive, even you could have made the same mistake if you were in their position.

To rectify the situation, I suggest MtGox pay for the shipping costs all 3 times. If I were in your shoes, that would make me happy.

Also, the AML rules are not their own, they have to follow the standard of both Japan and the USA (Japan being much more strict) but it allows them to stay operationally legal in both jurisdictions.


and my clarification...

Reposted my edit above:

There have been numerous claims that BitInstant is defending MtGox on this issue. This is not the case. What happend here is totally unacceptable and I've even said I think MtGox should pay financially to this customer for the problems.

At the same time, as of now, I am the only one who got in touch with MtGox on behalf of the OP and told them that I believe this is unacceptable.

BitInstant defends the right of every Bitcoiner, regardless if they are a customer of ours or not.

I apologize of my original comment was not clear enough


Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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October 18, 2012, 04:24:42 PM
 #75

However, thats not the issue, so please do not try and divert the debate.

I brought it back around to Mtgox, as evidenced by my last post. They're obviously incompetent and I suggest everyone use other means to move their bitcoins around.
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October 18, 2012, 04:51:16 PM
 #76

Charlie,

Avoid the FUD.

I think a point was made and the point when taken.

When you post here you are seen not only a member of one of leading (legitimate) bitcoin business but also as a founding corporate board member of the Bitcoin Foundation (regardless of how you sign your posts).

I for one am glad that you are as responsive to your clients and to the community as you are.  Unfortunately you are only one of the few bitcoin businesses (bitpay ... [sorry if I leave out others] that have a clue about customer service and public relations.  I would hope you could use this knowledge and your position as a member of the Foundation,  to encourage the other bitcoin businesses (including Mt. Gox) to try to maintain the same level of professionalism.

Isn't that part of what the Bitcoin Foundation all about?

Thanks.
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October 18, 2012, 04:53:36 PM
 #77

Now back to Mt. Gox.

Have really still not responded here or to TC directly through support??
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October 18, 2012, 05:02:02 PM
 #78

Now back to Mt. Gox.

Have really still not responded here or to TC directly through support??

I find it a bit odd that DaT hasn't replied, so maybe he got a direct answer out of Gox, and is working with them via pm or email.
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October 18, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
 #79

He's also running a very busy business.  I'm sure he'll post back with any updates.
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October 18, 2012, 05:16:07 PM
 #80

Now back to Mt. Gox.

Have really still not responded here or to TC directly through support??

I find it a bit odd that DaT hasn't replied, so maybe he got a direct answer out of Gox, and is working with them via pm or email.

I just logged out and did something productive because the entire situation makes me more pissed off the more I think about it.

Update:
* MtGox has not updated my ticket or answered any of the unresolved questions I posed them.
* MtGox has no communicated with me by email or PM or any other method.
* There have been no further updates to USPS tracking in almost two days now so at best the return is untracked and at worst my $100 docs are in the trash or in the hands of some Japanese Identity Thief.
* The website still has the wrong address posted over twenty four hours after I informed them of their negligence.

Given it is now 2AM in Japan I don't think there will be any change for a while.

I stand by my assertion that their behavior shows incompetence, gross negligence, and an attitude of blatant disrespect towards their customers.
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