tax customs in different countries

[Tupsu]

All these posts complaining/suggesting that Bitmain should do fraud for their personal gain made me laugh.

They did it also in the past (up to February 2014)...

I don't see how this is a good argument to legitimize a crime.

I still remember, when Bitmain S1 for  4000 USD  was shipped with invoice less as 200USD.

Bitmain  do not have any problem to cheat own  country's customs.

If  Bitmain support  commands you send 2 x Antminer S5+ blade with the declared value no more as 30 USD
together and your parcel get lost , it is also good reason for laugh.

[unholycactus]

All these posts complaining/suggesting that Bitmain should do fraud for their personal gain made me laugh.

They did it also in the past (up to February 2014)...

I don't see how this is a good argument to legitimize a crime.

I still remember, when Bitmain S1 for  4000 USD  was shipped with invoice less as 200USD.

Bitmain  do not have any problem to cheat own  country's customs.

If  Bitmain support  commands you send 2 x Antminer S5+ blade with the declared value no more as 30 USD
together and your parcel get lost , it is also good reason for laugh.

Doesn't really matter what Bitmain "commands" you to do or if they do it themselves. You are putting yourself at risk.

[Tupsu]

Doesn't really matter what Bitmain "commands" you to do or if they do it themselves. You are putting yourself at risk.

I wrote  them, that I will send 2 x S5+ blades  to him with the real customs value.
2/10 for 2300 USD

I received a reply that if I do so, then it will be sent back to me.

Therefore, I had no choice.

[philipma1957]

All other Chinese ASIC suppliers have no problem with lower value on invoice. There is only one exception - Bitmain ... (but in the winter 2014 they did it)

That's because most ASIC suppliers are run by people who have no fucking clue how to run a business or how to follow the law.  Bitmain is actually doing the correct and legal thing.

Yeah  you are correct.   I like the way bitmain reports correct numbers.

[christycalhoun]

I'll just leave this here to make everyone else happy about themselves: Brazil ~80% import tax

Bitmain will not send lower invoice, I already tried everything. Don't waste your time, it's a monopoly and they will not care.

Isn't it possible to have things shipped to Paraguay and pick it up there? I imagine it would be worth the trip since taxes are so high,

[unholycactus]

Doesn't really matter what Bitmain "commands" you to do or if they do it themselves. You are putting yourself at risk.

I wrote  them, that I will send 2 x S5+ blades  to him with the real customs value.
2/10 for 2300 USD

I received a reply that if I do so, then it will be sent back to me.

Therefore, I had no choice.

More or less, you can chose to not do business with them which is by far the most effective thing you can do to change things.

[Tupsu]

Yeah  you are correct.   I like the way bitmain reports correct numbers.

 It is  caused by greed. The only reason why they do it. They come back sales Tax from Chinese government from export.

[anamichii]

i'am using duty calculator in my previousy antminer s5 order
http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/190143143/electronics-video-games/electronic-components/integrated-circuit-ic-/import-duty-rate-for-importing-antminer-s5-from-china-to-united-kingdom-is-0/

so many country in that list.

[notlist3d]

Yeah  you are correct.   I like the way bitmain reports correct numbers.

 It is  caused by greed. The only reason why they do it. They come back sales Tax from Chinese government from export.

The part I don't get is how is it done out of greed?  Isnt the vat/tax when mailed going to that goverment?  I think customers are paying government the vat not bitmain.

Am I wrong is the vat somehow going twords bitmains profit?

[Tupsu]

Yeah  you are correct.   I like the way bitmain reports correct numbers.

 It is  caused by greed. The only reason why they do it. They come back sales Tax from Chinese government from export.

The part I don't get is how is it done out of greed?  Isnt the vat/tax when mailed going to that goverment?  I think customers are paying government the vat not bitmain.

Am I wrong is the vat somehow going twords bitmains profit?

Sales Tax in China is 17%

Bitmain pays it , when  buys something internally.

From export declared sales tax will not be paid. That comes back from Chinese government.
The more you export, the more you get back.

[notlist3d]

Yeah  you are correct.   I like the way bitmain reports correct numbers.

 It is  caused by greed. The only reason why they do it. They come back sales Tax from Chinese government from export.

The part I don't get is how is it done out of greed?  Isnt the vat/tax when mailed going to that goverment?  I think customers are paying government the vat not bitmain.

Am I wrong is the vat somehow going twords bitmains profit?

Sales Tax in China is 17%

Bitmain pays it , when  buys something internally.

From export declared sales tax will not be paid. That comes back from Chinese government.
The more you export, the more you get back.

That does give them a reason if that is correct, I will be honest that is out of my  knowledge on Chinese tax.

I still think it is a little naive to ask bitmain to knowingly send gear with fake lower values.    It just seems like it is the government it's being shipped to that has the big vat.   China and Bitmain did not pick vat rate for these countries.

Just seems proper channel would be going to governments with high vat's trying to bring it down.  Not go to companies and ask to avoid the governments vat/import tax. 

[sloopy]

It is a thing many companies do. It is not uncommon for equipment to be sent and people declare it is warranty so some countries are cracking down on it and taxing it even if it is.

We get it taken from us here in the US as well, just in different ways.

When we ship to another country aside from Mexico or Canada if we do not fill out everything a certain way it can definitely cost the other company much more. On new Industrial Sales everything is always by the book. Start working with returns, repairs and warranty it gets in gray areas where some places (like Brazil) charge almost as much as new price for the repair. This is a piece of equipment they have already paid full tax to import.

To my knowledge we never do anything illegal, but I know many companies which have the product shipped to a border town, so they are obviously picking it up and handling any customs themselves, and I have no doubt that means none at all sometimes.

In the overall scheme it isn't worth it for a company but it still isn't unusual for BITMAIN to pick and choose when they wish to have the invoice state a specific amount.

Tax can make or break a business. Showing the amount exported and receiving those credits is what decides future import taxes and tariffs for others. Look at it this way, people think sharing a netflix account is / was not a big deal. They are streaming that signal anyway. But, when a hundred thousand people share with another hundred thousand that is twice as much traffic, so they need twice the hardware to host that traffic. (It is an analogy, not exact numbers)
In that case, someone is going to pay for it and the company has to decide if they are making enough to sustain the sharing, they have to increase the price of the product to sustain the sharing, they figure out a way to make sharing harder than paying the 8 bucks a month, or they get Big Brother involved to scare people for sharing, or they completely change their way of getting you that product to eliminate the sharing or get another way for you to pay, but somehow - some way someone is paying for the sharing.
Same with music, DVDs, etc, there will be a crackdown because countries will get sick of people manipulating the system and they will start prosecuting individuals and companies on a public stage. Companies just have to play the system, lobby the right people, and they won't be the company their Government decides to make an example of.

We see Little Johny on TV in shackles and cuffs:

Reporter: Mr. Officer what did Little Johny do?

Officer: He cheated on his VAT paperwork and we put people under the jail for such a serious offense. You must pay your tax!

Reporter: That doesn't sound so bad, everyone does it do they not? We have reported on companies doing this for many years, both large and small.

Officer: and he copied a DVD of The Little Mermaid on his computer.

Reporter: Keeeel him! I have the rope! That little MF, SOB##!@

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In my personal opinion, you cannot get mad at the drug dealer because he stops selling you drugs.
You cannot get mad because the boxer you paid to throw the fight last time won't do it for this fight.
I guess you can get mad about it, but you do not say it out loud, much less complain on a public forum. That is a conversation with someone else doing the same thing.

You shouldn't get mad when you marry a prostitute and you find out she is still turning tricks for blow a year later <-- wait that one doesn't quite fit, but I think most get the point.

Seriously, everything gets paid for in some way. IF you happen to wiggle through some fine print and get out of paying thousands of dollars where it was expected it begins to add up. Eventually, someone, somewhere is expecting that money to pay for something.
Where does the money come from to begin with? Taxes.
Who are they going to get the money to replace the missing money from? Taxes.
If the big corporation has to charge more for the product, or the farmer down the street more for their turnips, you are still going to pay more.

In a country like Brazil they have amazing power rates, but they also have 80% import taxes. Amazingly unfair amount it would seem, but, their economy will explain it.
Our prices here in the US have went crazy. You know when you buy certain food items how much it costs now versus 5 years ago, well, maybe that was because some companies have been cheating a bunch of other companies out of billions of dollars, but someone, somewhere is going to pay for it.   

Sure there are natural disasters, but guess what, yup taxes and your private money. Insurance, yup, they will pay for it, and then raise everyone's rates.

Besides, the big boys all over the world have to pat each other on the butt and scratch each others backs. They cannot do it for us little guys. It is too much of a risk, right?

[mavericklm]

24% in Romania!

[notlist3d]

24% in Romania!

Does no one complain to the Romanian government?  I might be spoiled in us but people would be complaining to most levels of government if there was a 1/4 the price vat.

Honestly even if you like hardware it would be hard to justify buying a miner at 24 percent vat.   Pretty much your only option is if you find hosting somewhere with much less vat to pay to host your machine.

Out of curiosity what is your electricity price in Romania?

[mavericklm]

All politicians are a bunch of stealing fuckers!

Domestic is ~.17$/kw but you have options like half the price in the night, or 1MW at ~.13$/kw.
Or friends with small business that have ~.05$/kw

99% of the time i go for used miners from Europe, because i don't have the $ for new equipment and the tax is taken care by the first owner

[notlist3d]

All politicians are a bunch of stealing fuckers!

Domestic is ~.17$/kw but you have options like half the price in the night, or 1MW at ~.13$/kw.
Or friends with small business that have ~.05$/kw

99% of the time i go for used miners from Europe, because i don't have the $ for new equipment and the tax is taken care by the first owner

All politicians are not to the 1/4th level on vat.  That .13-.17 pretty much means you will not ROI.  The .05 it is possible but like you said any new gear is going to have vat and kill ROI.

I think you are better off with paying a hosting center.  As a miner I understand that really sucks.  But some places just are not really mineable.

[chalkboard17]

ITT: Americans, who don't have money stolen by the state via import "tax" "laugh" at people who are robbed and "like the way things are "correctly" made"

24% in Romania!

Does no one complain to the Romanian government?  I might be spoiled in us but people would be complaining to most levels of government if there was a 1/4 the price vat.

Honestly even if you like hardware it would be hard to justify buying a miner at 24 percent vat.   Pretty much your only option is if you find hosting somewhere with much less vat to pay to host your machine.

Out of curiosity what is your electricity price in Romania?

Then it won't be so funny. It's cool as long as it's only happening to other people. Besides, I doubt many people would speak out. Your government just stole $2t of your money to kill people in a needless war and I don't hear anything but support.
But yeah, I'd "laugh at people who think that is wrong" and "like the way the US government does things correctly"
All heil governments worldwide!

[marvykkio]

I repeat, most people pay in bitcoin bitcoin, = is evading taxes in China, so it is all gain for them, if you see the price of each car, paid in BTC has a value, if you pay in usd it has a price top, okay? so if I pay in btc no one knows that I'm buying, so it can not declare the goods available for sale, or that costs s7 1680 could declare $ 350, and arrived in Italy would pay only 80 euro (about $ 91) instead of 325 € (about $ 392).
bitmain and China, and as all Chinese around the world evade taxes and send money in China, the sequester all the toxic material, and bad material, so do not tell me that wants to be legal bitmain,. when there is no money, no one is legal.

[marvykkio]

could also compensate with free shipping because wants to be an honest,
but the thing I hate are the 3 months warranty, when it should be 365 days, and not 90 days, and then to allow people not to throw way the miner when you burn the hashboard not be able to buy spare parts.