Real life bitcoin scenario for non-bitcoiners

[kjj]

Bitcoin is nothing but a fun currency or a way to purchase things illegally. Face it, even if it were to "take off" the govt would shut it down.

Which govt... ( there are more than one and they tend not to get along too well most times. )

And how do you turn off something that doesn't have an "off" switch?  Bitcoin doesn't even require "the internet". 

First world govt's. You dont "turn it off" you make it illegal. It wont stop completely obviously but no real business will touch it ever if its illegal. Most people will also stop using bitcoin if it becomes illegal. Bitcoin does require the internet. How do you think coins originate?

I always get a chuckle when I hear people talk about making bitcoin illegal.  What part could they outlaw?  ECDSA?

[ryann]

Bitcoin is nothing but a fun currency or a way to purchase things illegally. Face it, even if it were to "take off" the govt would shut it down.

Which govt... ( there are more than one and they tend not to get along too well most times. )

And how do you turn off something that doesn't have an "off" switch?  Bitcoin doesn't even require "the internet". 

First world govt's. You dont "turn it off" you make it illegal. It wont stop completely obviously but no real business will touch it ever if its illegal. Most people will also stop using bitcoin if it becomes illegal. Bitcoin does require the internet. How do you think coins originate?

I always get a chuckle when I hear people talk about making bitcoin illegal.  What part could they outlaw?  ECDSA?

IF bitcoin "took over" how do you think the govt would fund road repairs and every govt expenditure etc etc? I mean be realistic. You honestly think a deregulated currecny woudl be good in the long run??? I dont think the federal reserve is any good but you need regulation and law enforcement.

[kjj]

Bitcoin is nothing but a fun currency or a way to purchase things illegally. Face it, even if it were to "take off" the govt would shut it down.

Which govt... ( there are more than one and they tend not to get along too well most times. )

And how do you turn off something that doesn't have an "off" switch?  Bitcoin doesn't even require "the internet". 

First world govt's. You dont "turn it off" you make it illegal. It wont stop completely obviously but no real business will touch it ever if its illegal. Most people will also stop using bitcoin if it becomes illegal. Bitcoin does require the internet. How do you think coins originate?

I always get a chuckle when I hear people talk about making bitcoin illegal.  What part could they outlaw?  ECDSA?

IF bitcoin "took over" how do you think the govt would fund road repairs and every govt expenditure etc etc? I mean be realistic. You honestly think a deregulated currecny woudl be good in the long run??? I dont think the federal reserve is any good but you need regulation and law enforcement.

Probably with taxes.

[ryann]

Bitcoin is nothing but a fun currency or a way to purchase things illegally. Face it, even if it were to "take off" the govt would shut it down.

Which govt... ( there are more than one and they tend not to get along too well most times. )

And how do you turn off something that doesn't have an "off" switch?  Bitcoin doesn't even require "the internet". 

First world govt's. You dont "turn it off" you make it illegal. It wont stop completely obviously but no real business will touch it ever if its illegal. Most people will also stop using bitcoin if it becomes illegal. Bitcoin does require the internet. How do you think coins originate?

I always get a chuckle when I hear people talk about making bitcoin illegal.  What part could they outlaw?  ECDSA?

IF bitcoin "took over" how do you think the govt would fund road repairs and every govt expenditure etc etc? I mean be realistic. You honestly think a deregulated currecny woudl be good in the long run??? I dont think the federal reserve is any good but you need regulation and law enforcement.

Probably with taxes.

So then it would have to be regulated.

[kjj]

So then it would have to be regulated.

Huh?

Were you thinking that the dollars in your wallet are in some way instrumental to tax collection?  Because they aren't.

[EuSouBitcoin]

Let's face it - we're all geeky idealists here. We love the mathematical beauty of bitcoin and its concept of true financial freedom and we try to promote it that way. But masses don't really care about any currency's fundamentals, they just want to go to a store and buy things. Wheter it's for greenback, btc or some loyalty program points, they don't care. Majority of people will never understand bitcoin, or fiat; most of them don't even know what inflation is.

Why do I write all this? I found promoting bitcoin quite hard and I think it's because my explanation of it always starts from what I personaly like about it (no central banking, cryptography). Fail. The story must be told from listener's perspective. So what would impress these people? That they can go to a store and actually buy things with btc in a simple way, like with cash.

So I would like to create a real-life scenario, step by step, to make sure this is possible. It starts with customer entering a store and ends with him leaving with the stuff he bought. I want to only include technologies that already exist or are in a final stage of development, so this scenario would be feasible lets say bu teh end of mid 2013. We can then use this story when introducing bitcoin to non-geeky people.

I'm kicking off: It's June 2013, Adam enters a store, picks up some snacks and takes it to the counter. What happens next?

If he's in the USA he pays with USD in some form. Fiat money works very well as a medium of exchange and as a unit of account. I think the main function that BTC can do better than fiat currencies is that it can, and hopefully will, serve as a better store of value than fiat currencies which lose value due to the increase in supply of fiat currency created by central banks and their fractional reserve banking systems.

[ryann]

So then it would have to be regulated.

Huh?

Were you thinking that the dollars in your wallet are in some way instrumental to tax collection?  Because they aren't.

You really need to re read my comments.

[kjj]

So then it would have to be regulated.

Huh?

Were you thinking that the dollars in your wallet are in some way instrumental to tax collection?  Because they aren't.

You really need to re read my comments.

Heh, I did.  Maybe you should read them again.

[bitcoinbear]

Adam is eight years old! He goes into the sweet shop ...

Adam is eight years old! He goes into the sweat shop, where he works his 10 hour shift. He then goes to the shop manager, hands over his ID card (which has a bitcoin QR address), the manager scans the card and sends 0.5 bitcoin to that address. He then thanks Adam for the productive workday and sends him on his way.

[ryann]

So then it would have to be regulated.

Huh?

Were you thinking that the dollars in your wallet are in some way instrumental to tax collection?  Because they aren't.

You really need to re read my comments.

Heh, I did.  Maybe you should read them again.

Then learn to read. And then go re re read them. You are saying the exact opposite of what  I am saying so clearly you arent reading them.

[kjj]

So then it would have to be regulated.

Huh?

Were you thinking that the dollars in your wallet are in some way instrumental to tax collection?  Because they aren't.

You really need to re read my comments.

Heh, I did.  Maybe you should read them again.

Then learn to read. And then go re re read them. You are saying the exact opposite of what  I am saying so clearly you arent reading them.

Or maybe I just disagree with you.  To be honest, I'm not sure.  As far as I can tell from what you've actually written, you think that dollar bills have magical properties that build roads and employ policemen.  I certainly disagree with that.  Here on Earth, it is commerce that is regulated and taxed, not so much the unit of accounting used in that commerce.

And it isn't like there is some thing that lawmakers could point to and say "That thing is a bitcoin, and possession of bitcoins is now against the law!".  About the best they could do is make it illegal to solve the equations that make up an ECDSA signature.  And their law would have absolutely no effect on the equations or the solutions.  And private keys are just arbitrary 256-bit integers.  Any 256-bit integer is a private key.  I guess they could try to make it illegal to cause a computer to know 256-bit integers, but something tells me that not even they are that dumb.

[justusranvier]

obviously but no real business will touch it ever if its illegal.

You must live a pretty sheltered life.

[franky1]

a alternative currency by default is not illegal. but if that currency's use is predominantly used for illegal activity and has not actual value of to the general public to buy commodities such as vegetables, milk, etc then it can be considered illegal.

as such there have been cases in china and other countries that instead of hauling around FIAT capital. they would trade 'tickets' which were authorised as IOU's by the head of merky drugs cartel to be of value to the holder.

a recent movie 'premium rush' features such a ticket which basically is a receipt with a smiley face on it to represent that it has been authorised. this system is illegal.

if any of you want to get bitcoin completely legal here is two steps.

1) stop the god dang drug dealing being the main use of it. this doesn't have to be blocking silkroad but instead getting some reputable merchants to accept bitcoin to dilute the high percentage of trade being done by silk road. to atleast only 1/2% of use so that it is atleast on par with FIAT.
yes FIAT can be considered drug money but it has so many other uses, that FIAT is accepted by all as a currency of value.

2) learn how LETS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systems became an accepted alternative currency term. and then after reading the link. consider how to make bitcoin a term such as GETS (Global Exchange Trading System).

but point 2 cannot be done easily without point 1 being done. and on the flip side point 1 can't be done easily without point 2 being done. both due to the lack of positive reputation and understanding.

the other alternative is to use Litecoins to become a GETS and leave bitcoin for the merky business.

[Portnoy]

a alternative currency by default is not illegal. but if that currency's use is predominantly used for illegal activity and has not actual value of to the general public to buy commodities such as vegetables, milk, etc then it can be considered illegal.

as such there have been cases in china and other countries that instead of hauling around FIAT capital. they would trade 'tickets' which were authorised as IOU's by the head of merky drugs cartel to be of value to the holder.

a recent movie 'premium rush' features such a ticket which basically is a receipt with a smiley face on it to represent that it has been authorised. this system is illegal.

if any of you want to get bitcoin completely legal here is two steps.

1) stop the god dang drug dealing being the main use of it. this doesn't have to be blocking silkroad but instead getting some reputable merchants to accept bitcoin to dilute the high percentage of trade being done by silk road. to atleast only 1/2% of use so that it is atleast on par with FIAT.
yes FIAT can be considered drug money but it has so many other uses, that FIAT is accepted by all as a currency of value.

2) learn how LETS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systems became an accepted alternative currency term. and then after reading the link. consider how to make bitcoin a term such as GETS (Global Exchange Trading System).

but point 2 cannot be done easily without point 1 being done. and on the flip side point 1 can't be done easily without point 2 being done. both due to the lack of positive reputation and understanding.

the other alternative is to use Litecoins to become a GETS and leave bitcoin for the merky business.

The fact that many people use BTC to buy the things they want ( drugs ) shows that it is already successful... so who needs it to be legal?

What damn good is litecoin if you can't even buy drugs with it?   

[franky1]

The fact that many people use BTC to buy the things they want ( drugs ) shows that it is already successful... so who needs it to be legal?

What damn good is litecoin if you can't even buy drugs with it?  

lol spoken like a true drug user that only sees if for their selfish purpose and only ever wants to use it for that purpose..

litecoin is another crypto that has just celebrated its first birthday. its being traded largescale on BTC-E where other cryptos and virtual currencys have slipped off of BTC-E's radar. EG solidcoin.
litecoin is still fighting strong and many users all have the same mind set of learning from bitcoins mistakes. so far the strength of litecoin to bitcoin trades has prompted BTC-E to add russian and Euro currencies into the options to by. instead of just USD. thus expanding Litecoins reach.

in relation to learning from bitcoins mistakes by getting something big to the litecoin market, worthy of alot of press coverage to advertise litecoin. BUT, (big but) instead make it a LEGAL merchant so it is not drugs as its flagship market.

Imagine a domino's pizza TV advert, advertising 10% discount if paying by litecoins 20 times a day across with world. good product, good press, positive rep.

bitcoin has a supposed 100k population but with a smaller population for regular users.

for instance this link http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/countryHosts.html shows that a year ago there was 75k of regular users. which now seems to be only 30k..

bitcoin isnt currently a success because of silkroad. but WAS a success due to silkroads publicity. Now its its' own downfall.

many passionate people wanting bitcoin to expand have tried pushing it to their local real world legitimate merchants. and end up returning home with head banging against a brick wall because merchants mention the propoganda of ponzi's scams and drugs.

so why would litecoin be a zombiefied sheep and become a drugs pushers best friend. i have nothing against stopping silkroad my actual mind set is to leave bitcoin to the drug pushers. and start afresh with lean, clean fighting machine known as litecoin.

none of the 'going mainstream' matter much to drug users beyond having more ways to launder tainted coins. so i wont explain more. enjoy your drugs, stick with bitcoin. i and many others will divert our passion of a crypto competing against fiat by using litecoin.

hope you enjoy buying your weed online so you can hide from mommy and daddy by not having to trawl the streets for a shady dealer. enjoy ur mind altering drugs. take care now. bye

[Portnoy]

The fact that many people use BTC to buy the things they want ( drugs ) shows that it is already successful... so who needs it to be legal?

What damn good is litecoin if you can't even buy drugs with it?  

lol spoken like a true drug user that only sees if for their selfish purpose and only ever wants to use it for that purpose..

Or someone who doesn't judge others nor tries to dictate what they should or shouldn't use... whether it is only for their own
pleasure or a necessary medicine that happens to be in competition to what Big Pharma is pushing, for 'their' own purposes.      

Bitcoin was not meant to be some get rich quick scheme for shrewd speculators but something that is useful for everybody
no matter what their class, subculture, or other status as human beings.

It doesn't need to be legal; mainstream; or "moral" according to this or that arbitrary standard... it just needs to be useful.  
It is that already and will continue to be no matter how you or others judge how certain people use it.  

[franky1]

as i said i aint saying stop silk road to make bitcoin clean.. so i wasnt dictating what people do with their money. its their own business..

but if a crypto has any chance of going mainstream then a drugs cartel being the main trade of it, is not helping.

so all those drug traders for pleasure or medical use, continue to use bitcoin.

while many of us get litecoin promoted. as i see that as the most fair way to win the arguments about anonimity vs legitimacy

[Portnoy]

hope you enjoy buying your weed online so you can hide from mommy and daddy by not having to trawl the streets for a shady dealer. enjoy ur mind altering drugs. take care now. bye

Btw, I am flattered and proud that at over 50 years of age I can still come across as young and immature and annoy uptight asshat moralists like yourself.  

Oh and I have also noticed in those many years that a lot more commerce takes place under the table than over it...  

sure you can have your legal litecoin just the way you want...  lite as in lite beer...  for those who can't handle the real stuff...  LOL  

[Roger_Murdock]

"Litecoin: silver pyrite to Bitcoin's gold"

[franky1]

glad we both have a sense of humor.

i am not someone to wants to police bitcoin. so lets see how litecoin goes in the future. see you in 2 years time to compare litecoin to what bitcoin is today.

"Litecoin: silver pyrite to Bitcoin's gold"

"Litecoin: silver carbon to Bitcoin's gold"

many more uses worldwide for carbon, and oneday it can be made into diamonds lol