Why?

[ElectricMucus]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Ahh good fresh FUD, one of these days.

[johnwhitestar]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Ahh good fresh FUD, one of these times they come out of their hiding.

It's not fresh. You can see by yourself, that even if pirateat40 was a negative experience it dumped the price, because there was a lot of willing investors from outside of btc world. When it defaulted there were still OBSI, and GLBSE.
But now, seriously where may you invest your BTC's?
And why Nefario got so scared as to shut his site instead of selling it? I will not tell you what I think, as I don't need FUD (I'm on BTC side right now and am not going to sell, so personally I'd need the price to go up ;-))

[molecular]

We have no bitinstant debit card in the news. A preloadable debit card is bitcoin's only hope for any introduction into mainstream usage, while too many members of this forum make a big deal over something as silly as bitcoin taxi payments or vending machines.

Bitcoin price is inflated by irrational, Atlas-esque bulls who think bitcoin will succeed by proselytizing its merits to the masses. The notion that bitcoin will grow by getting our collective relatives' small businesses to all accept bitcoin is as delusional as canvassing for a presidential 3rd party.

We need to piggyback bitcoin's decentralized characteristics onto the popularity of a mainstream currency, thus acting as a medium between "real" currencies, so to speak. Only once this niche role is established can bitcoin hope to make the next leap as a self supporting currency. The Bitcoin Foundation and the pre-loadable debit card have been the only significant bitcoin news as of late, the rest is all noise.

How will another bitcoin-accepting small business with ZERO bitcoin transactions help bitcoin?
How will ASIC's that do nothing but further secure an already impenetrable network help bitcoin?
How will planting proselytizing media stories that reach only libertarians and techies help bitcoin?

Meh, I can remember when the web was a bunch of text with no images. Bitcoin is (in my opinion) pretty much inevitable now. There may be some false starts and some missteps but I don't think there's much need for anyone to be running around pushing things, just take advantages of opportunities as they occur and it will grow by itself. If it needed to be forced, it *deserves* to fail.

I'm not saying that anything should be forced, only that those innovative energies of the bitcoin community should be focused on that which is most essential. Promoting bitcoin in its present form as a currency is, in my opinion, a complete waste of time. If we intend to grow the bitcoin economy, we need greater interactivity with the real economy, with innovations that promote seamless osmosis with those real currencies. Trying to defy and ignore the real economy with bitcoin-as-currency innovations like in-person phone payments is doomed to fail until there is a sufficient base of support and usage --- a foundation that can only be be brought about by promoting bitcoin as a protocol, as a tool for the dollar, euro, etc.

Two example innovations I can think of that fit this bill would be:

1. Pre-loadable debit card that holds value in bitcoins until sale is made, at which point an instant dollar/euro conversion is made.
2. Micropayment protocol that enables users to tip content with bitcoins in a format easier than copy-paste lengthy alphanumeric address.

I've grown quite fond of settling small everyday stuff (like when someone picked something up for me (or the other way around)) in bitcoin. Bitcoin already works for me in that regard and it's really useful. I don't see why this use case alone wouldn't be able to make bitcoin big at all, it just takes time. Just today I had 2 "bitcoin newbies" (they actually had fully synced bitcoin clients on their laptops with 0 transactions) buy bitcoins from me. So the userbase is growing and these dudes didn't even seem to me like they needed the stuff for silkroad. Neither were they hardcore libertarians or anti-establishment in any way, they just genuinely thought bitcoin was a cool idea and maybe they should get some.

Slowly moving towards critical mass without any hot-shot corporation pulling a humongeous biggie seems to be a viable path to me. Protecting ourselves well along the way against the various attacks and problems that will undoubtedly occur we should be fine in the end.

I'm still silently hoping for some kind of a big kaboom, but it's not necessary in my mind.

Falkvinges assumption of it taking 10 years from inception to widespread use might turn out to be correct.

Why do you insist on having to interface with that shoddy payment system credit cards resemble? The people behind that are our competition.
Why do you insist on having to interface with that shoddy debt-based fiat currency? The people behind that are our competition.

I don't wanna be a tool for the Dollar!

Bitcoin is real money, not the Dollar.

I'm not talking about "defying and ignoring the real economy", I'm talking about that economy using real money.

[molecular]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Where I come from markets exists to facilitate buying and selling of stuff and price discovery.

[johnwhitestar]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Where I come from markets exists to facilitate buying and selling of stuff and price discovery.

+1

BTC market is not a typical one, from my point of view.
Everybody criticize it for not being a vehicle of real trading, but it still exists, so we have to accept it.

[shmadz]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Ahh good fresh FUD, one of these times they come out of their hiding.

<snip>
But now, seriously where may you invest your BTC's?
</snip>

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/

since you asked  

Disclaimer:  I neither promote nor have any reason to think these guys are not legit. I have no affiliation with, and no bitcoins (or other out-dated currencies of any kind) invested with these guys.

[johnwhitestar]

From my point of view there is not BTC market any more.
You can't invest bitcoins since there is no market, so the only way to make money is the dump and pump.

Ahh good fresh FUD, one of these times they come out of their hiding.

<snip>
But now, seriously where may you invest your BTC's?
</snip>

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/

since you asked  

Disclaimer:  I neither promote or have any reason to think these guys are not legit. I have no affiliation with, and no bitcoins (or other out-dated currencies of any kind) invested with these guys.

Interesting, thanks

[Yuhfhrh]

Check this out:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

[ElectricMucus]

Check this out:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

What about it?

[Yuhfhrh]

Check this out:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

What about it?

Just found it interesting, the number of transactions has also been going down.

[ElectricMucus]

Check this out:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

What about it?

Just found it interesting, the number of transactions has also been going down.

Well more people buy and use bitcoins during rising prices, this is nothing new. And in a way the number of transactions is more related to trading volume than price.
My conclusion would be that we are still far away from panic selling territory. Looks more like profit taking atm.

[Yuhfhrh]

Check this out:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

What about it?

Just found it interesting, the number of transactions has also been going down.

Well more people buy and use bitcoins during rising prices, this is nothing new. And in a way the number of transactions is more related to trading volume than price.
My conclusion would be that we are still far away from panic selling territory.

I agree, but I don't rule out a panic sell.

[Energizer]

To whoever or whatever reason brought the price down to 10$ "THANK YOU". I thought I would never be able to buy @ 10$ again. I am looking to buy more tomorrow @ whatever price lower than 11$. I am one of those who values bitcoin much more than any fiat currency or even gold.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Time to load up. Looks like the same pre-election dollar pump-up that has been pushing down gold is also pushing down BTC. Prices should recover in November/December.

[alexanderanon]

I've grown quite fond of settling small everyday stuff (like when someone picked something up for me (or the other way around)) in bitcoin. Bitcoin already works for me in that regard and it's really useful. I don't see why this use case alone wouldn't be able to make bitcoin big at all, it just takes time. Just today I had 2 "bitcoin newbies" (they actually had fully synced bitcoin clients on their laptops with 0 transactions) buy bitcoins from me. So the userbase is growing and these dudes didn't even seem to me like they needed the stuff for silkroad. Neither were they hardcore libertarians or anti-establishment in any way, they just genuinely thought bitcoin was a cool idea and maybe they should get some.

Slowly moving towards critical mass without any hot-shot corporation pulling a humongeous biggie seems to be a viable path to me. Protecting ourselves well along the way against the various attacks and problems that will undoubtedly occur we should be fine in the end.

I'm still silently hoping for some kind of a big kaboom, but it's not necessary in my mind.

Falkvinges assumption of it taking 10 years from inception to widespread use might turn out to be correct.

Why do you insist on having to interface with that shoddy payment system credit cards resemble? The people behind that are our competition.
Why do you insist on having to interface with that shoddy debt-based fiat currency? The people behind that are our competition.

I don't wanna be a tool for the Dollar!

Bitcoin is real money, not the Dollar.

I'm not talking about "defying and ignoring the real economy", I'm talking about that economy using real money.

Do you design and build model trains too? If you think bitcoin is some "neat" idea to be used by casual hobbyists for selling three and a half coins to some bitcoin bohemian you met online and then met in person, then you have little appreciation of the ambition of Satoshi Nakamoto's bitcoin project. What possible value did bitcoin provide you in "settling small everyday stuff" that couldn't have been accomplished with dollar cash? What percent of the world do you think has vaguely any interest whatsoever in participating in the economy in this "bitcoin enthusiast" fashion?

"Our competition"? Bitcoin is not competition to the fiat-based credit card point of sale systems. There are maybe a half a dozen token transactions daily that actually deal in bitcoins, in person, and most of these occur at some bitcoin enthusiast meet-up. All bitcoin transactions occur online. The simple fact is that the cost of learning about bitcoin, dealing with fluctuations, installing an android app, and grappling with the fact that no customers know what the hell they are , far outweighs the pittance saved in credit card company fees. If you believe bitcoin can be spread this way, then I encourage you to also go convince your family to uproot to new hampshire to participate in that far-fetched libertarian venture, and then to go canvass for obscure 3rd party candidates! This view is best expressed in what is perhaps the most commonly expressed and yet false sentiment I've ever heard: "Every little bit counts".

It's all well and good to be a bitcoin cheerleader, but let's be serious here. The world is far too big and bitcoin far too complex for mere word of mouth to drive its adoption. Indeed, the only reason the network is the most powerful distributed network on earth is because there's a huge profit incentive. People need something valuable to respond to, and making tiny token transactions on smartphone for a beer is a value to bitcoin enthusiasts, not to the masses . The bitcoin community needs to stop worrying about these irrelevant interests, and start focusing on engaging with the world economy as a currency of currencies, and THEN as a currency proper.

[sgravina]

Why are we in the middle of a massive sell-off?

This is the second annual Christmas sell off.  It's that time of year when a lot of bitcoin hoarding miners and speculators sell off most of their bitcoin stash to free up funds for some early Christmas shopping.

[DoomDumas]

Good question. There are no bad news to blame it on. Blaming it on a "natural correction" doesn't really explain everything either, it's crashing in a too textbook way. I hate to say it and I don't necessarily believe it's true, but there could be manipulation. The way the sell offs are triggered and the induced panic selling which is increasing... this could be an orchestrated crash. Easily. It doesn't feel like a real crash but it looks like one.

Also it could be an insider crash, someone knows some really bad news is going to hit Bitcoin soon and wants to do this in advance.

Or bitcoins just are still too highly valued at double digits and it is just a natural correction. It could be anything, really. Hard to say.

I bet on manipulation.. Too many big players in a very small market, too much chance to have a double, triple in value in the next month or so..

BTC total capitalisation is very very small.. with a single million, fiat or BTC, this market can be swigned in dramatic peak up or down, too easy to manipulate.

Then, it's time to buy, because if it's really a manip down, the goal of the manipulator(s) is to buy low... so, dont follow the mass, follow the leader

[DoomDumas]

I'd like to add that the big ask walls that seem to follow the crashing price are a major indicator for a manipulative crash.

+1

[DoomDumas]

Perhaps ASIC companies are now ready to place their orders with manufacturers and are thus selling BTC to raise the necessary funds.

That is possible to, BFL said they just payed a "bullet run", maybe they need extra money very fast.

I've read few times, that BFL did not kept BTC, all order/preorder where instantly converted to USD, as BFL is not interested in hoarding BTC, but USD !

[Energizer]

>15$ / BTC
On Monday/Tuesday

Whoever is manipulating the price is gonna regret it