F.GIGA.ETF to be delisted on December 1st, 2012.

[guruvan]

I maintain that the shares are not worthless, simply untradeable.

Look (obviously MPOE-PR is too financially ineducate to comprehend this point):

If you you bought some AAPL, and then that stock was delisted, do you figure your investment in AAPL is now worthless? Over $500/share and you'd still say it's worthless? The company is still operating and you say the shares are worthless?

MPOE-PR, you should either
A. Learn English (i.e. the definition of "worthless")
B. Go back to finance school, you clearly missed a few days
C. Get "Mr. P" to put the assets back in our portfolios
or
D. Inform Mr. P that the community is going to determine he's a scamming scumbag, and MPEx will quickly go out of business.

[ciuciu]

I maintain that the shares are not worthless, simply untradeable.

Look (obviously MPOE-PR is too financially ineducate to comprehend this point):

If you you bought some AAPL, and then that stock was delisted, do you figure your investment in AAPL is now worthless? Over $500/share and you'd still say it's worthless? The company is still operating and you say the shares are worthless?

MPOE-PR, you should either
A. Learn English (i.e. the definition of "worthless")
B. Go back to finance school, you clearly missed a few days
C. Get "Mr. P" to put the assets back in our portfolios
or
D. Inform Mr. P that the community is going to determine he's a scamming scumbag, and MPEx will quickly go out of business.

Guruvan, what happened, did your honeymoon with Mircea ended?

[guruvan]

Guruvan, what happened, did your honeymoon with Mircea ended?

I do still appreciate that he serves porn to pedo-curious types like yourself.

[Littleshop]

Kind of a bummer that you have no way to notify shareholders on your exchange when something important comes up.  Everyone has to troll your irc channel or all their investments might *poof* on them.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring the part where you are posting in the very thread announcing this, one month in advance. But no, everybody does not have to anything.

More importantly: this is exactly how things work on that MPEx wanna-be, ie NYSE. You don't follow the news? You miss out. Gotta follow the news. You wanna play the retail investor and not follow (or understand) the news? Use a broker.

I would like to take a moment here to thank you all for having noticed that in fact MPEx gave abundant and sufficient notice of what was going to happen, and for having properly commended MPEx for yet again setting the standard of correct behavior in the field. I would like to also show my appreciation for people having acted responsibly and sanely, instead of waiting a month and a week, until after the announced cutoff. Well done. Oh...wait?

I would expect the records to be available for the duration of the existence of MPEx.  If that's not possible for technical reasons, I'd say 24 months.

Yet again, you are rehashing dead arguments from a month ago. Mindlessly repeating dead arguments does not breathe one iota of further life into them, they're still dead. Please re-read the linked article. Carefully. Pen in hand if need be.

Advance notice of taking someone of value from someone does not make it ok.  

People are not rehashing dead arguments, they are rehashing points IGNORED by MPEx.  

[ciuciu]

Guruvan, what happened, did your honeymoon with Mircea ended?

I do still appreciate that he serves porn to pedo-curious types like yourself.

Guruvan, enjoy Mircea sticking it up your ass. I TOLD YOU SO!!!

[burnside]

More importantly: this is exactly how things work on that MPEx wanna-be, ie NYSE. You don't follow the news? You miss out. Gotta follow the news. You wanna play the retail investor and not follow (or understand) the news? Use a broker.

I've been through a delisting or two on the NYSE.  I got all kinds of legal mumbo jumbo in my mailbox.  All the shareholders get notified from the company and from the brokers.  MPEx does not give companies or issuers the tools with which to do such a notice.  How the NYSE, NYSE brokers and NYSE issuers handle it is night and day from this.

I would like to take a moment here to thank you all for having noticed that in fact MPEx gave abundant and sufficient notice of what was going to happen, and for having properly commended MPEx for yet again setting the standard of correct behavior in the field. I would like to also show my appreciation for people having acted responsibly and sanely, instead of waiting a month and a week, until after the announced cutoff. Well done. Oh...wait?

I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  You're right, going round and round makes no sense.

I would expect the records to be available for the duration of the existence of MPEx.  If that's not possible for technical reasons, I'd say 24 months.

Yet again, you are rehashing dead arguments from a month ago. Mindlessly repeating dead arguments does not breathe one iota of further life into them, they're still dead. Please re-read the linked article. Carefully. Pen in hand if need be.

I don't think document retention should die as an argument until such time as it is fixed.  Simply calling an argument dead because you're sick of it does not make it so.

Cheers.

[MPOE-PR]

Advance notice of taking someone of value from someone does not make it ok.  

People are not rehashing dead arguments, they are rehashing points IGNORED by MPEx.  

Looky, in the month prior to delisting the ETF traded something like 3 days out of 30. In the month after that it traded not at all. Its last trades were at the 3 cents on the nominal bitcoin level. You will have a VERY hard time proving something has value that nobody wants to buy.

More importantly, these are arguments that should have been brought a month ago (and were, and didn't carry then).

Someone showing you are wrong does not "ignore it". Somebody not doing what you think they should isn't "scamming you". This very self-centric view of the world is adequate for the mental age of three and for most internet forums, but it doesn't work in finance and it doesn't really work in BTC (even if people like Taaki and forum types figure they're what BTC is all about - they're not).

I've been through a delisting or two on the NYSE.  I got all kinds of legal mumbo jumbo in my mailbox.  All the shareholders get notified from the company and from the brokers.

Does bolding help?

MPEx does not give companies or issuers the tools with which to do such a notice.

It's really fucking hard to have anonymous exchanges and "the tools", now isn't it? People read if they care. If they don't care to read they don't get to claim they care.

How the NYSE, NYSE brokers and NYSE issuers handle it is night and day from this.

I gather this is your opinion. This is fine, and you're entitled to it, but it is still wrong.

I don't think document retention should die as an argument until such time as it is fixed.  Simply calling an argument dead because you're sick of it does not make it so.

Let me quote from the article you claim to have read but really didn't.

BTC-Mining And as such will keep the transactions data for the ETF.

mircea_popescu The transaction (in general, the historical) data was never in discussion.
BTC-Mining When you said you'd delete ALL data for the ETF, I understood it as ALL the data. Including signed transactions--
mircea_popescu I didn't say I delete all data lol. I said the shares are discarded as worthless.
BTC-Mining Wait-- let me fetch the bit--
smickles Oh snap, mircea_popescu.

mircea_popescu WTF, delete signed orders create chaos. Heck, why not, let's have fun.
smickles \o\

mircea_popescu Lol whazzat smickles ?
smickles He's going to quote you saying something.

mircea_popescu No harm in that eh.
smickles
02:18 mircea_popescu BTC-Mining I can't delete "all data" man. the signed stats will forever exist.
04:01 mircea_popescu you were talking about "data being deleted". a customer wanting to push a claim would be in no worse position today, on the 5th of december 2012 or 2015
04:35 mircea_popescu i'm not about to delete f.GIGA.ETF entries from the historical records.
04:37 mircea_popescu what, am I going to log into twitter and delete tweets ?
04:46 mircea_popescu I didn't say I delete all data lol. I said the shares are discarded as worthless
04:47 mircea_popescu wtf, delete signed orders create chaos. heck, why not, lets have fun

Last 1000 lines, every time mircea_popescu said delete. All times UTC.

mircea_popescu Haha fun times.
BTC-Mining Mea culpa I guess. You were talking about how it's unreasonable to keep the data indefinitely. I understood it as all the data.

Your insistence to be spared fifteen minutes' worth of quiet reading at the expense of other people babying you, picking out snippets and so forth is really ridiculous. It's not in general speaking practical to expect that clever people will drop whatever it is they're doing and start packaging extant information in little sound bytes you can safely manage just because you're screaming your head off somewhere.

More generally, this nonsense trying to hold a company hostage by some people screaming bloody murder for absolutely no reason, on the general expectation that the company imagines a world full of nitwits will not have the intellectual honesty or for that matter the intellectual capacity of sitting down, reading and getting to the bottom of things has to go. This isn't retail as implemented by some fast food restaurant, and even there calling 911 because the drive through server got your fries as you asked for them rather than as you had wanted them fails to work.

[burnside]

I've been through a delisting or two on the NYSE.  I got all kinds of legal mumbo jumbo in my mailbox.  All the shareholders get notified from the company and from the brokers.

Does bolding help?

It does.  I think what you're implying by bolding is that:

A) MPEx is not the broker?  In my opinion... MPEx is indeed the broker for many end users, and if you want to call those end users brokers, great, then MPEx is the broker for the brokers?
B) MPEx is not the asset issuer?  In my opinion... (supported by what I've read) MPEx is in fact the asset issuer in this case, and thus responsible to the bond holders?

MPEx does not give companies or issuers the tools with which to do such a notice.

It's really fucking hard to have anonymous exchanges and "the tools", now isn't it? People read if they care. If they don't care to read they don't get to claim they care.

That wasn't so hard.  Why'd you need to do the whole bolding thing up above?

Since you don't have good notification tools, maybe you could make up for it by not having insta-delistings of valuable assets?

I don't think document retention should die as an argument until such time as it is fixed.  Simply calling an argument dead because you're sick of it does not make it so.

Let me quote from the article you claim to have read but really didn't.

....

Your insistence to be spared fifteen minutes' worth of quiet reading at the expense of other people babying you, picking out snippets and so forth is really ridiculous. It's not in general speaking practical to expect that clever people will drop whatever it is they're doing and start packaging extant information in little sound bytes you can safely manage just because you're screaming your head off somewhere.

More generally, this nonsense trying to hold a company hostage by some people screaming bloody murder for absolutely no reason, on the general expectation that the company imagines a world full of nitwits will not have the intellectual honesty or for that matter the intellectual capacity of sitting down, reading and getting to the bottom of things has to go. This isn't retail as implemented by some fast food restaurant, and even there calling 911 because the drive through server got your fries as you asked for them rather than as you had wanted them fails to work.

No need to get riled up.  This is a civil discussion.

I don't have a problem admitting to not reading something.  I say I read it = I read it.  I say it was too long = I didn't want to read it.  My retention isn't perfect, but the words entered my brain through my eye sockets. 

It seems like you're confusing the issue somewhat.  I'll try to clarify my understanding of the situation.

*) Mircea said he will keep the records indefinitely in backups, etc.
*) Mircea removed the records from the STAT output, so end users can no longer see the records.

With those two facts in mind, from what perspective do you think I was talking about having access to records for tax purposes?  Mircea's?  Or the bond holders?  Is there an account history command that is available that I am missing?  Seems like you could resolve this particular issue by making it possible to STAT delisted assets.

Heh, and a slight poke... if this isn't retail, then why is the need for a PR person wandering amongst the masses of us poor uneducated serfs?

Cheers.

[JoelKatz]

Quote that letter you're talking about.

Who said anything about a letter? I'm summarizing your position in the thread about Patrick and contrasting it with your position here.

If the next thing you post starts with anything other than that quote or an apology, you're going back on my ignore.

You're not very good at bullying. It really makes very, very little difference to me whether you read my posts or not.

[MPOE-PR]

Apparently, she only believes that others should be held to the letter of their agreements. When it's *her* agreement, and people *she* relied on don't do what she relied on them to do, her investors have to eat it.

Quote that letter you're talking about. If the next thing you post starts with anything other than that quote or an apology, you're going back on my ignore.

Who said anything about a letter? I'm summarizing your position in the thread about Patrick and contrasting it with your position here.

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you. Oh wait, you're that shill guy trying to obstruct the PH thing, I remember. Ignored.

In my opinion... MPEx is indeed the broker for many end users

In my opinion, you're a green daffodil. Does that do anything for you?

B) MPEx is not the asset issuer?  In my opinion... (supported by what I've read) MPEx is in fact the asset issuer in this

You must have read everything except the contract I guess, seeing how it says quite clearly right there who the owner is. But anyway, not the first time you say you read and it turns out you haven't. (For my own curiosity, how on earth did you make it through school like that?! Don't they do RC tests anymore?)

Since you don't have good notification tools, maybe you could make up for it by not having insta-delistings of valuable assets?

See, when you say "insta-delistings" after having it pointed out to you about three times that you're posting in the thread where the thing was announced a month in advance you look either very stupid or very ill intended. Did you know that? (This leaving aside the "valuable" bs.) And yes, I appreciate the completely irrelevant lateral argument of "tax records", you must imagine you're terribly slick or something. Well...not really. Pull the other one.

Heh, and a slight poke... if this isn't retail, then why is the need for a PR person wandering amongst the masses of us poor uneducated serfs?

I guess the boss enjoys reading the results? Alternatively it might be possible that he's perverse enough to pour money into the education of the purposefully stupid as a sort of charity work. He's weird enough for dumb shit like that.

[burnside]

In my opinion... MPEx is indeed the broker for many end users

In my opinion, you're a green daffodil. Does that do anything for you?

It tickles.

B) MPEx is not the asset issuer?  In my opinion... (supported by what I've read) MPEx is in fact the asset issuer in this

You must have read everything except the contract I guess, seeing how it says quite clearly right there who the owner is. But anyway, not the first time you say you read and it turns out you haven't. (For my own curiosity, how on earth did you make it through school like that?! Don't they do RC tests anymore?)

Nah, I was right.  I read my irc logs and Mircea is the asset issuer.  (of the passthru to Giga, obviously.)  So why lie?  And the personal attack?  Really?

Since you don't have good notification tools, maybe you could make up for it by not having insta-delistings of valuable assets?

See, when you say "insta-delistings" after having it pointed out to you about three times that you're posting in the thread where the thing was announced a month in advance you look either very stupid or very ill intended. Did you know that? (This leaving aside the "valuable" bs.) And yes, I appreciate the completely irrelevant lateral argument of "tax records", you must imagine you're terribly slick or something. Well...not really. Pull the other one.

In the financial world, any large deal done in less than 30 days is "insta".  This is especially the case with bankruptcies, spin-downs, whatever bin you want to throw this in where all investor value is destroyed.

So... the really ironic thing here, after all this shit-slinging you've done about me not reading your diatribes.  The really ironic thing?  Is that in IRC yesterday Mircea claimed that HE HAD NO IDEA GIGA WAS PLANNING TO CONTINUE OPERATING THE ASSET.  (gigamining)

Let that sink in for a few moments.

*) MPOE-PR has spent the last who knows how many posts in this thread explaining to me how I can't properly read/comprehend.
*) It turns out, MPOE-PR / MPEx has not even been reading the Gigamining thread!

They've essentially admitted to delisting an asset without even bothering to read or examine or question the plans of the operation behind the asset they delisted.

I'm not going to get into the trust issues this creates for the MPEx exchange, or the crazy easy comparison that could be made between this and the GLBSE delistings.  I think the actions taken speak loudly enough.

[MPOE-PR]

Nah, I was right.  I read my irc logs and Mircea is the asset issuer.  (of the passthru to Giga, obviously.)  So why lie?  And the personal attack?  Really?

Are you for real? MP owns a large chunk of MPEx and operates it, but is not identical to it. So no, it was not MPEx that was the issuer. I'm not surprised that such differences elude you on the first (and second) pass knowing what we know of your general reading comprehension, but really now.

In the financial world, any large deal done in less than 30 days is "insta".

You really have no business speaking as of this "financial world" that you imagine. Preocupations more in line with your abilities are Reading 101 and such. This leaving aside the very convenient point that it was not done in less than 30 days, it was done in more than 30 days.

They've essentially admitted to delisting an asset without even bothering to read or examine or question the plans of the operation behind the asset they delisted.

Duh. Who cares what Gigamining "plans"? All that matters is what it does.

I'm not going to get into the trust issues this creates for the MPEx exchange, or the crazy easy comparison that could be made between this and the GLBSE delistings.  I think the actions taken speak loudly enough.

No, actually, you've been going into nothing but spurious attempts at GLBSE comparisons that utterly failed on the facts, and brain damaged intimations of untrustworthiness which are so ridiculous as to be almost worth reading for the humor factor. So you know...it's ok. MPEx trades more in a month than your exchange ever will over its lifetime.

Speaking of which, what exactly the marginal literacy of its agitated owner means for whatever minor wannabe-exchange is entirely up to your two customers to determine. Hopefully one's your gf or something and all works out ok. You've already had your fifteen minutes, we've already had our laugh at the "hey, this yapdog probably imagines he's the competition and is scoring!eleven" point, you may lapse back into the darkness.

[EskimoBob]

I guess you have missed the important point: If "MP" issues a pass trough of "GIGASOMETHING", from the exchange/market "GLBSE", on his bazaar "MPEX", the "MP" is the issuer of "F.GIGA.ETF" . As simple as that. Do you understand why?
"MP" has to work his ass off to get this mess cleared up because the buyers of "F.GIGA.ETF", from his silly bazaar MPEX, never made it to the share holders list of gigavps, hence they can not go to gigavps, and ask for the coin and dance that retarded dance scammer gigavps is demanding. Is this clear to you 2?
YOU, mircea popescu from polimedia.us, have to go and dance with James Gibbson (gigavps) like you have never danced before or you are just another scammer, who stole assload of coin from your clients.

Important point #2 - Lets start with a simple analogy so you 2 can understand it better. MPEX is just a bazaar, GLBSE is just a bazaar. Closing the bazaar will not make bananas worthless. If you can not comprehend this, you have a problem.

Now, the theory that our megalomaniac gipsy, bazaar owner mircea, sold the shares of "gigasomething" on the GLBSE and then sold his uncovered "pass through" (aka a empty bag) to his clients, fits like a fist in his eye.

Most important question now is: Mircea, is your name/email on the gigavps shareholders list?
If yes, can you prove it? Ask gigavps to announce it.
If this is OK, you guys can move on.

MP, if your and your pr-joke need coloured illustrations to understand it better, I can try to draw one for you.

[burnside]

Functionally Mircea = MPEx.  (and likely legally until Mircea registers MPEx in Romania or wherever you are, Mircea = MPEx.  It's not rocket science.)

What is the point is in trying to separate the two anyway?  Mircea is the man making the decisions either way.

The rest of the facts speak for themselves.

Cheers.

[guruvan]

Functionally Mircea = MPEx.  (and likely legally until Mircea registers MPEx in Romania or wherever you are, Mircea = MPEx.  It's not rocket science.)

What is the point is in trying to separate the two anyway?  Mircea is the man making the decisions either way.

The rest of the facts speak for themselves.

Cheers.

LOL. That's like trying to separate Mircea from his MPOE-PR sockpuppet.

Mircea, you really need a depersonalizer to make that plausible.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Mircea is MPEX in the same way nefario was glbse.