$13,000 bitcoins by the end of 2016? $120,000 by 2018? (golden ratio fractals)

[ssmc2]

I like the cut of your jib, OP.

[1714893692]

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[SmoothCurves]

“Humans cannot create from nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding on to something. Humans are not gods.” - Kaworu Nagisa

 
For now the statement is true.  Humans can only discover the rules of their universe and use them to transfer energy into different forms.  
  
In time, the strange principles of quantum mechanics and other yet-undiscovered sub-atomic level phenomena may see that statement invalidated.  
  
Personally, I predict that we will eventually realize that the idea of nothing is just as absurd as infinity.  It can't exist in any sensical system.  I wildly speculate that perhaps there is no such thing as 'nothing' in our universe, only smaller and stranger quantities of energy. (yes, I know what the planck length is - please don't lecture me; many learned men also knew of the universal aether at one point too).  

I think that nothing (the null set) has to exist. Obviously discussing something as abstract as nothing is difficult without implying that nothing is something. Max Tegmark speculates that anything can exist mathematically exists physically. There are proofs that show how you can bootstrap all of mathematics from the null set. It makes sense in a weird way to me. If nothing exists then it exists outside the rules of physics (but not of logic) thus anything that can happen, does happen, and can be birthed by this nothing, so long as it's self consistent.

[americanpegasus]

If nothing exists then it exists outside the rules of physics (but not of logic) thus anything that can happen, does happen, and can be birthed by this nothing, so long as it's self consistent.

 
  
Agreed, just like infinity.  Infinity can exist by the rules of logic, but I propose not by the rules of physics.  
  
This is why I don't believe in the "emptiness of space".  It also is another possible explanation for the 'missing' matter in the universe.  That empty space isn't so empty; it's just filled to the brim with something so much smaller than we can comprehend at the moment... perhaps this is even the answer to the Fermi Paradox itself: http://www.accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html  
  
In any case, we are getting slightly off topic.  Let's slowly try to return to dreams mocking the Boggleheads from our 37-story yachts.

[SmoothCurves]

If nothing exists then it exists outside the rules of physics (but not of logic) thus anything that can happen, does happen, and can be birthed by this nothing, so long as it's self consistent.

 
  
Agreed, just like infinity.  Infinity can exist by the rules of logic, but I propose not by the rules of physics.  
  
This is why I don't believe in the "emptiness of space".  It also is another possible explanation for the 'missing' matter in the universe.  That empty space isn't so empty; it's just filled to the brim with something so much smaller than we can comprehend at the moment... perhaps this is even the answer to the Fermi Paradox itself: http://www.accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html  
  
In any case, we are getting slightly off topic.  Let's slowly try to return to dreams mocking the Boggleheads from our 37-story yachts.

Sounds good to me. BTW I noticed that when you click play on that Fontas trading view link - we are totally following the predicted ghost lines.

[americanpegasus]

Sounds good to me. BTW I noticed that when you click play on that Fontas trading view link - we are totally following the predicted ghost lines.

 
 
Fucking fractals, man.  If (always an if) our large flat region does end up corresponding to that flat region in the comparative section, don't underestimate the titanic moves ahead of us - we may even see the fruition of sgbett's insane PID controller moves (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=800330.0) where the future of bitcoin price isn't a slow and steady exponential rise up... but an exponential rise until we hit a certain tipping point and then the entire world pours into bitcoin (and hopefully Monero by extension) in a techno-mania that makes the tulip bubble look like a bump on the road. 
 
It seems silly now, but when you start hearing about everyone around you getting rich, buying new houses, buying new cars... all because they bought this little thing called 'bitcoins' then don't underestimate the fiat exit rush that may happen.  The scary part is that bitcoin isn't anywhere *near* ready for that kind of volume or interest.

[romjpn]

 
It seems silly now, but when you start hearing about everyone around you getting rich, buying new houses, buying new cars... all because they bought this little thing called 'bitcoins' then don't underestimate the fiat exit rush that may happen.  The scary part is that bitcoin isn't anywhere *near* ready for that kind of volume or interest.

Ah yeah, the blocksize problem. I wonder when it will be solved 

[chennan]

In most cases the Golden Ratio is yours for absolutely nothing. In this case it would a tad costly. Retaining the ability to feed and house yourself is probably more important to most people.

Yeah, I can completely agree with this... until utility companies, grocery stores, and other companies who provide necessities to people who go about day by day/paycheck to paycheck, there won't be a price above $5,000 IMO... there has to be an incentive for more people to get into bitcoin for this to be even considered I would think.  When the price steadily increased throughout 2012-2013, there were more and more people being introduced to bitcoin that people felt the need to invest... that's what ultimately helped drive the price up (not to mention Gox; but that's another story).

I just can't see how $10K levels could be reached if this hasn't happened... but like everyone else says, anything could happen in the world of bitcoin

[americanpegasus]

Overly optimistic in my view. We cant' even stay at 270 right now. The past is no indication in bitcoin. Remember that the past 24 month long bear period has broken new grounds. Too many people bought in at $1000+. If and when we reach $1000, they will dump their bitcoins, we will go right back down to 200.

It came true, just like the chart predicted.... Now we are waiting for the next major vertical move.
 

[Biodom]

Overly optimistic in my view. We cant' even stay at 270 right now. The past is no indication in bitcoin. Remember that the past 24 month long bear period has broken new grounds. Too many people bought in at $1000+. If and when we reach $1000, they will dump their bitcoins, we will go right back down to 200.

It came true, just like the chart predicted.... Now we are waiting for the next major vertical move.
 

I think that it is not coming...as simple as this

[cellard]

Overly optimistic in my view. We cant' even stay at 270 right now. The past is no indication in bitcoin. Remember that the past 24 month long bear period has broken new grounds. Too many people bought in at $1000+. If and when we reach $1000, they will dump their bitcoins, we will go right back down to 200.

It came true, just like the chart predicted.... Now we are waiting for the next major vertical move.
 

I think that it is not coming...as simple as this

What's simple is the fact taht Bitcoin is only 6 billion dollars in marketcap, and there are tons of trillions of money in cash, real state, stocks, oil, metals... all searching to get into other places to get safe for when the shit hits the fan really soon, and Bitcoin is the best way to have this money outside of regulators and parasites.

[Moneyburner]

I think what is forgotten is that when Bitcoin was at $2 it was cheap to get in for the average joe. Even at a couple hundred many people could have money to spare. But when your talking thousands for just one coins it scares people away (even if you can buy fractually).

Someone is more likely to say screw it let me throw in $20 when that gets you 10 coins, but not when it gets you .001 coin

[americanpegasus]

I think what is forgotten is that when Bitcoin was at $2 it was cheap to get in for the average joe. Even at a couple hundred many people could have money to spare. But when your talking thousands for just one coins it scares people away (even if you can buy fractually).

Someone is more likely to say screw it let me throw in $20 when that gets you 10 coins, but not when it gets you .001 coin

Then people need to start thinking in Bits, not in whole Bitcoins. 
 
If they want to own something cheap and risky, Monero's are only 50 cents each, but you don't see people chomping to buy tons of those yet, do you?  That's because it's slightly harder to own Monero vs Bitcoin.  To buy Bitcoin it's as easy as it has ever been - download one of several reputable apps and connect with one of several reputable exchanges. 
 
The easier something is, the less opportunity is there. 

[angaper]

It is enjoyable to read these optimistic predictions about the future bitcoin price, but it is just speculation without solid basis, especially when most serious traders know that technical analysis is nothing but a series of superstitions and assumptions based on erroneous calculations full of subjectivity. But the worst thing is to believe that previous market behavior will be repeated in the future, when it is well known that it never occurs with certainty in markets.

[DieJohnny]

Overly optimistic in my view. We cant' even stay at 270 right now. The past is no indication in bitcoin. Remember that the past 24 month long bear period has broken new grounds. Too many people bought in at $1000+. If and when we reach $1000, they will dump their bitcoins, we will go right back down to 200.

It came true, just like the chart predicted.... Now we are waiting for the next major vertical move.
 

I think that it is not coming...as simple as this

What's simple is the fact taht Bitcoin is only 6 billion dollars in marketcap, and there are tons of trillions of money in cash, real state, stocks, oil, metals... all searching to get into other places to get safe for when the shit hits the fan really soon, and Bitcoin is the best way to have this money outside of regulators and parasites.

Markets have completely tanked in the last two months... bitcoin has not exploded, with the coming halving and the tanking markets the current bitcoin price is shocking and makes everyone pause....... what is happening that we cannot see, because something is keeping the price down, and it may be a long term trend.....

[americanpegasus]

It is enjoyable to read these optimistic predictions about the future bitcoin price, but it is just speculation without solid basis, especially when most serious traders know that technical analysis is nothing but a series of superstitions and assumptions based on erroneous calculations full of subjectivity. But the worst thing is to believe that previous market behavior will be repeated in the future, when it is well known that it never occurs with certainty in markets.

The fucked up part is this one actually came true. 
 
I think many people are totally missing that this guy accurately predicted Bitcoin's rise to $500 out of nowhere and the subsequent crash. 
 
What will you say if he's right about the next move up too?

[Bitmore]

Overly optimistic in my view. We cant' even stay at 270 right now. The past is no indication in bitcoin. Remember that the past 24 month long bear period has broken new grounds. Too many people bought in at $1000+. If and when we reach $1000, they will dump their bitcoins, we will go right back down to 200.

It came true, just like the chart predicted.... Now we are waiting for the next major vertical move.
 

I think that it is not coming...as simple as this

What's simple is the fact taht Bitcoin is only 6 billion dollars in marketcap, and there are tons of trillions of money in cash, real state, stocks, oil, metals... all searching to get into other places to get safe for when the shit hits the fan really soon, and Bitcoin is the best way to have this money outside of regulators and parasites.

Markets have completely tanked in the last two months... bitcoin has not exploded, with the coming halving and the tanking markets the current bitcoin price is shocking and makes everyone pause....... what is happening that we cannot see, because something is keeping the price down, and it may be a long term trend.....

---OR-- (but hoping not to be overly optimistic) the spring could be tightening as whales are buying up weak hands worried about the 'forking'.   This could be the perfect storm, building tension to send it to the moon,,, but who knows.  You buy your ticket, you take your chances.  Good luck to all.

[arbitrage]

No this is not possible! We can talk about double or triple price increase but everything above needs some serious money. This is obvious day dream.
Don't forget Bitcoin has already super price!

[NordicRanger]

This far to high in my opinion. We are now not even in the thousands but still in the hundreds. Lets get to the thousand before we start talking about $13,000 and $120,000. 

[OROBTC]

...

It may be that Bitcoin's next big price move up will be in response to an actual financial crisis, which many observers see coming.

For example is Europe decides to impose capital controls, that would be very damaging not only to them, but would likely be the catalyst for a huge move up in BTC price.  Any loss of confidence in currencies would likely do the same, create the conditions for a truly majestic move up in BTC.  If governments overreact to any problems (by printing, capital controls, etc.), that would likely do it as well.

Lots could go wrong in the world, bad things happening would likely lift the price of BTC.

[Luterwish]

If the price of bitcoin rises to $13,000 by the end of 2016, most people in this forum will be quite happy.