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Author Topic: The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug  (Read 24383 times)
HadiHussain
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March 01, 2017, 03:09:55 PM
 #281

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh   if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt
TrueAnon
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March 01, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
 #282

I suggest you guys watch new name (soon) WBB very closely now and for coming months!!!
noobtrader
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March 01, 2017, 04:08:21 PM
 #283

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh   if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt

they wrote some technical jargon such as tail emission instead of infinite supply.

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
iamnotback
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March 01, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
 #284

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh   if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt

they wrote some technical jargon such as tail emission instead of infinite supply.

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread which is about SEC regulation?

The Dash scammer shills are spamming this thread because they can't respond to specific allegations in their own shill thread.

You retards don't even know the difference between an asymptotic limit and an actual money supply. An "infinite money supply" can't ever exist. Duh. Dashtards.
iamnotback
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March 01, 2017, 06:00:10 PM
Last edit: March 01, 2017, 07:04:08 PM by iamnotback
 #285

Should devs be held accountable

No. As long as it opensource software - no, they not. If you like idea and have some free time you can improve coin by yourself, this is how open source software supposed to be developed. If devs not sold something on "ICO" they can do whatever they want.

If it is opensource and not an ICO (and not a Dash-like obfuscation of a commercial enterprise), then there is no one set of developers. Anyone can hack on it. Token holders could fork if they want.

So yeah in that case devs don't have any obligation.

But maybe some devs have good reputations, then it probably will help confidence in that open source repo.

I am not anonymous. I am a dev.

W.r.t. to ICOs, they are illegal, so I have no interest in them.



And so now we have Roger Ver associated with DASH and QTUM, so that is allegedly two scams already.
iamnotback
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March 01, 2017, 11:13:38 PM
Last edit: March 02, 2017, 12:25:25 AM by iamnotback
 #286

When I started reading your message, it sounded like a fight. By the time I got to the end, I realized you are just really hoping I won't throw away my chance. You should worry less.

As for getting the tokens into hands of speculators, that will happen. But you really don't understand enough about my design and its very unique distribution mechanism (something along the lines of Steem's "blogging is the new mining") and thus you make some false assumptions.

Actually the worst thing I could do right at the moment is burden myself with a lot of money to manage. What I need to do immediately is code. Later when money could be more effectively deployed, the ability to raise money will be there because of the work done interim.

Can you imagine Satoshi considering not to release the BTC software at all because of fear about future AML regs and to avoid the use of his currency for nefarious purposes such as the purchase of drugs and the legal problems that this use could bring to miners and to himself!? GTFO!

Bitcoin's launch and design is apparently not in violation of the Howey test.

Satoshi disappeared as Bitcoin moved into mass awareness.

The main point is not what could happen to me, but what could happen to all the token holders when the token is stomped on at the regulated exchanges by the authorities. And authorities don't crack down only in cases where someone complained. They also have someone complain when they want to crackdown.

Quote from: Skalpell link=topic=1218399.msg18029853#msg18029853 date=1488407706
With the necessary funding no smartass (maybe the one who is manipulating you not to launch an ICO and get the funding you need) can copy your work - because its open source - throw in some 100s of 1000s and hire a bunch of developers and crush you before you are able to stand on your feet,

What do you think man? That I don't have plan.

Quote from: Skalpell link=topic=1218399.msg18029853#msg18029853 date=1488407706
If I emit a currency with which anyone will be able in the future to buy skins, infrastructures and equipment in a yet to be commercialized online game or create discount codes to use a platform to, say, order food online or rent an apartment or some other non existent fantastic sharing idea (airbnb and deliveroo come to mind) for a 80% discount on fees for 50 cents a pop (you now pay 6-12% of the booking and 3 euro respectively) and distributed to early birds, gamers and enthusiasts in exchange for valuable funding, do you really believe the fucking SEC and DOJ will have something to say about if you deliver your game or platform and is not as widely used as everyone thought it would be?

And then go create a $trillion marketcap with his identity full known to the authorities. You just aren't thinking man. I am thinking big. You are thinking small.

Don't you understand that regulators are the criminals. If they see a huge phenomenon, they will want a cut of the action. The more leverage they have, the larger cut they can demand. Do you live in a fairytale inside the recesses of your one-track mind.

Quote from: Skalpell link=topic=1218399.msg18029853#msg18029853 date=1488407706
And if the SEC wants to, what kinda entrepreneur and hacker are you for fucks sake?! find a workaround, create a shell of a shell company in Hong Kong or Switzerland to distribute the tokens and once the ball is rolling create a Foundation and enjoy a well deserved retirement after all the draining hard work and wasted hours in this forum.

You are advising me to cash out my reputation as all the ICOs do. Instead of actually focusing on delivering the goods.

All the time I would spend managing that ruckus and other programmers, would end up like Ethereum and never make an accomplishment that actually solves anything. Have you heard of the Mythical Man Month. I'd end up spending all my time managing communication with others and very little actually doing any technical work.

It is much better if your collaborators come to you organically via their interest in working on the code you've already accomplished. Trying to predict how new hires will integrate is a crap shoot. Enormously inefficient.

If the former (I start to have serious doubts whether you have what it takes to pull this off

Now that I am NOT doing an ICO, then I don't have to care what you think. All that matters is my actual accomplishments in the real market. And so I don't have to cater and attend to all these people that will waste my time with their unsolicited armchair expertise and advice.

When I need to raise money, I can raise it (and have been). I don't need to sell an ICO to raise money. The more code I have accomplished, the more I can raise.

ICOs are selling out the forward value too cheap, unless you manipulate your ICO (as everybody does!) buying your tokens from yourself. And I refuse to do that fraud.

It is much better to sell 1 million tokens for $100 than for $1, wouldn't you agree? The more scarce the supply of tokens for speculators, the higher the price will be.

while distributing as widely as possible the tokens and kickstart the network effect

The protocol I want to implement will distribute tokens to millions of people.
iamnotback
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March 02, 2017, 10:01:30 PM
Last edit: March 02, 2017, 10:25:02 PM by iamnotback
 #287

I want to acknowledge that @Skalpell has a valid point about needing to accelerate by getting others involved.

I also agree with him that if open sourced too early, then the momentum can be diluted by copycats. However once a clear lead, economies-of-scale, and ecosystem adoption are achieved, open source is best. There is a hen-egg dilemma to overcome and @Skalpell's point about capital driven momentum is a valid one to consider. Then again, if one isn't concerned about exclusivity and only about the maximization of the idea, then open source is probably best, but this possibly may also cause an idea's development to suffer via fractious power vacuum of competing offerings which may open the door for top-down controlling strongman.

At the moment, I am trying to get off this forum and get back to coding and technical work. And I am trying to get the cobwebs out of my brain from several years of suffering a chronic illness (apparently disseminated TB) which had the symptoms of autoimmune disease and even some of those mimicking multiple sclerosis. So at this moment, I don't YET always have the energy I need to assimilate as much information as I would like to. I am not really rolling yet where I have enough momentum to know where and how to efficiently deploy a large amount of capital.

I think at the nascent stage, a very tightly wound focus is best. I need to focus on the core concepts which are unique in the work I am doing and since only I am intimate with my ideas, it is more efficiently for me to develop from those concepts into something that others could concretely appreciate. For me to try to bring other developers up to speed (i.e personalized hand holding) would be inefficient at this point. Later when those initial concepts have become concrete in some code, then others can autonomously bring themselves up to speed (decentralized competition of open source will filter out who can and who can't without a requirement for my hand holding).

Regarding ICOs, one of the aims of my project that is different from Ethereum is that via the distribution model, I intend (i.e. hope to) provide a way for the derivative "smart contract" (or apps) projects to monetize their business model without creating a useless token and ICO lie. I am attempting to change the entire paradigm to not only a legal but also a viable one. @Skalpell although you make reasonable arguments in some respects, you seem to have a blindspot on the fact that these ICO tokens are completely unrealistic in that the world won't be using 100s of colored coins with a separate coin for each "smart contract" or app. The world will rally around one or at most a few leading units-of-exchange and units-of-account. The ICO model is not viable long-term. It is a FOMO delusion that works for now because speculators haven't yet learned that 100s of tokens isn't going to work.

I don't know if I can achieve this. I go forward step-by-step, just as I did when I thought I had no good health future over the past years of being ill. I just went step-by-step and worked my way towards a solution. In hindsight, if I had known to get a TB test 4.5 years ago, then I would not have lost 4 years. So if there is some analogous insight which could help accelerate my plans now, then I hope I am able to realize it as the recurrent fatigue and cognitive deficiencies clear out (16 more days to go on the 4-drug medication, then 16 more weeks on the 2-drug regimen).
bet101
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July 16, 2017, 04:31:26 AM
 #288

Just wanted to remind you all again i don't think law / regulation = death of crypto.
There is laws for the New York Stock Exchange right ? Well they still trade "penny stocks"

And they are all scams too. I created miningstocks.com in 2007 and so I know something about this.

They trample innovation because only the scammers have the connections, resources, and time to waste getting listed. And they place onerous restrictions on the way a coin could be structured, distributed, etc.. It would absolutely kill the Steem concept, which I think is going to be critical (with significant tweaks, e.g. no voting) to attaining mass adoption.

I hope you also understand that the required underwriting for IPOs is a scam that enables the investment bankers such as Goldman Sachs to take all the early stage gains of an IPO.

Regulation is scam, because the regulated are in bed with the regulators. The regulations end up being a way to keep all the non-scammers out of the profits.

I grow tired of pointing out the hypocrisy.

I could not agree more with you, but there are still many ICO's with legit people willing to do something.
Yeah we grow tired of your hypocrisy.

Why don't you just admit human nature instead of lying to yourself?
Traxo
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July 25, 2017, 11:21:12 AM
Last edit: August 28, 2017, 03:53:17 PM by Traxo
 #289

https://www.coindesk.com/icos-eu-will-slow-giant-regulate-tokens/

EDIT:
https://bitsonline.com/sec-dao-icos-securities-law/


EDIT (07/29):

How do you answer this:

"It’s important to ask the question of whether there is an expectation of profit by the buyer of a token. If so, there’s trouble" ?

There are some instances where this is very obviously the case - especially with tokens that promise to pay dividends or invest in subsequent projects (especially things like real estate, etc.). ICOs/tokens like this fail the Howey Test right off the bat.

Tokens that have a utility, like those where it's necessary to use have tokens to use a service, are on the other end of that spectrum. The buyer motivation is function, not investment or gains on the value of the token.

* Crowdfunding publicly catches the attention of the SEC. Interestingly, a private ICO does not.

EDIT:
How many ICOs are complying with legal disclosures?

EDIT (08/28):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2129166.msg21285511#msg21285511
theheolyn
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August 29, 2017, 05:14:16 PM
 #290

Re: Is Fraud and Scam killing the Altcoins?

Today the SEC sent an alarm again about ICO pumps and scams: https://www.coindesk.com/sec-warns-public-companies-using-icos-pump-stocks/

As a day trader, I can see it everyday, scam after scam, the altcoins are in suicide mode.

Today we reached the higher capitalization ever, thank to ETH going up to $360, but on the altcoin side, there is nothing happening, no money to make. Why?



Reiterating that although no one can predict with certainty, a crackdown by SEC against ICOs could plausibly coincide with another bear market in crypto similar to 2014.

Perhaps the authorities could freeze/confiscate ICO tokens on centralized exchanges within their jurisdictions.

A new treaty went into effect in 2017 and all G20 nations  are required to share financial data on the people in their jurisdictions with each. Perhaps some coordination on freezing ICO tokens at exchanges all over the world is coming. Or just a freeze in the USA or other significant jurisdictions might be sufficient to spook the trading markets.

ETH has become the Pink Sheets listing system for scammy crypto ICOs. Could ETH be also frozen and confiscated on exchanges?

On top of this we have a bubble forming in cryptocurrencies in general, potentially ripe for a massive correction as we reach some nosebleed level.

Additionally new laws may be coming which prevent you from crossing a border legally without declaring all your cryptocurrency wealth.

read that there are some ICO regulations issue in China... who knows something more about it?

NEO's first ICO Red Pulse just tweeted two hours ago that they won't be selling to Chinese investors.  I had 5 NEO and just sold them.

Wrote an article about this, feedback from experienced crypto enthusiast is welcome

http://usethebitcoin.com/regulations-in-china-regarding-icos-affect-neo-price/

If the department overseeing illegal fundraising activities found a fundraising without proper permission, or a fundraising that violates the relevant provisions of the State, and if one of the following circumstances is found, the department shall launch an administrative investigation. Other relevant departments shall cooperate with the investigation.
….
(2) to raise funds in the name of issuing or transferring equity, raising funds, selling insurance, or engaging in asset management activities, virtual currency, leasing, credit cooperation and mutual funds..."
Traxo
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September 03, 2017, 07:57:21 AM
 #291


Are Most Cryptocurrencies Doomed to Collapse — because they’re “ICO-issued”?
Hyperme.sh
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September 22, 2017, 09:41:01 AM
Last edit: September 22, 2017, 01:18:27 PM by Hyperme.sh
 #292

WARNING: those who are trading and promoting ICO issued tokens to non-accredited investors in G20 nations (even via an exchange) may be incriminating themselves. Even the European Union has a criteria for accredited investors (and even Ethereum didn’t restrict its ICO accordingly):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor#European_Union

These guys could possibly end up in a pickle (they’re in Hong Kong and Cayman Islands):

https://bnktothefuture.com/icos

Every major nation has securities regulation law which applies to ICOs (including even Japan and India), and eventually the authorities will crackdown and enforce the laws:



With the recent bans, and news of crypto tightening regulations, some coins (mostly those which are modeled as a security) are beginning to move more into an accredited investor/institutional investor-only ICO.

Unless they identify and verify accredited investor status and file the appropriate paperwork in every jurisdiction where those accredited investors reside, then they’re still illegally issued securities, e.g. EOS’ checkbox for “I’m an accredited investor” is not legal issuance. Anyone promoting or trading these (including the owners of the exchanges!) may be incriminating themselves.

Do you guys see it as ICOs/blockchain defeating its own purpose by being open only to individuals with the big bucks, a needed measure, or there is way for us to agree on a middle ground?

Tokens issued under an accredited investor exemption must only be traded to other verified accredited investors. If the issuers/promoters/investors reasonably expect these tokens to be listed on public exchanges then they are probably committing a crime. An attorney pointed this out.

Fundraising via tokens is a giant mess that should be entirely avoided by everyone (at least until the authorities provide some new legal framework which might be many years from now, especially since it will require globalized harmonization of law in order to allow trading across nation-state borders). ICO issued tokens are doomed and will likely become illegal to trade and thus worthless. Expect exchanges to start voluntarily delisting ICO issued tokens once they realize the deep shit they are in. You’re investing in empty bags that have never produced any real world use or than facilitating selling empty bags to greater fools.
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October 08, 2017, 02:39:55 AM
 #293

After all my ranting about the illegality of ICOs, I stumbled today on the idea that forking and airdrop may be a way to convert an ICO issued token into a non-security.

Thus in theory for example the EOS tokens would end up living on (as re-issued in an air drop) outside the jurisdiction of any securities regulators in the world.

Hahaha. The regulators suddenly become irrelevant and can be ignored?

Disclaimer: IANAL. This is not legal advice.
CornCube
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December 08, 2017, 07:38:38 PM
 #294

The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug

Latest update.
CRED.me
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January 12, 2018, 05:51:32 PM
Last edit: January 21, 2018, 07:26:38 PM by CRED.me
 #295

And the ICO cease & desist orders begin:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/12/sec-shuts-down-munchee-ico/

And the European regulator is coming:

http://archive.is/heVFi

G20 coordinated regulation coming:

The international mood toward Bitcoin has continued to tighten, particularly with US Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin stating that the G20 nations will begin working together to make sure that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are properly regulated.
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