[(Updated 4/2)USA/CANADA GROUP BUY] Denarium Silver 1 BTC Coins

[Pistachio]

I am looking to to join the groupbuy.  How is the shipping going to be split? Is it by weight or number of coins? Are there going to be any import duties or fees for the re-shipper?

[ezeminer]

I am looking to to join the groupbuy.  How is the shipping going to be split? Is it by weight or number of coins? Are there going to be any import duties or fees for the re-shipper?

The Chain of shipping will work like this, Denarium ships to Mitchell, Mitchell ships to me, I distribute to everyone else.

Shipping costs between Mitchell and I:
I will split the shipping cost by coin. Unless the consensus is to split by weight. If so I will get a digital scale and work from there.

Shipping Costs to you:
I will ship coins by US priority mail flat rate boxes with nice and cozy bubblewrap. It'll be $6 inside the US. If you don't want tracking I believe I can ship for something like $2-3.

If shipping to Canada, it should be somewhere around $5-8 in a bubble envelope. If by priority mail boxes around $21.

[BookofNick]

I also picked up another coin using the new discount code (BTW Denarium updated the page and now there are now around 25 of the Empty 1 BTC coins shown as in stock. Was down to one remaining coin in stock a couple days ago).

That brings my total to 2 coins for the group buy. Thanks ezeminer (and technomage)!

[ezeminer]

Would we save VAT if we had shipped to someone not in the EU?
This is 24%

I have been trying to check around, I believe VAT is pretty much on everything that is incoming europe. Finland has a VAT of 23% it looks like. Mitchell might have to clarify this.

Also looking for research on shipping silver around, but hard for me to find the correct keywords.

VAT on exports to non-EU countries
VAT is a tax on goods used in the EU, so if goods are exported outside the EU, VAT isn’t charged. You can zero-rate the sale, provided you get and keep evidence of the export, and comply with all other laws. You must also make sure the goods are exported, and you must get the evidence, within three months from the time of sale. This can be longer for goods that need processing before export and for thoroughbred racehorses.

The time of sale is the earlier of:

the day you send the goods to your customer
the day you receive full payment for them
You mustn’t zero-rate sales if your customer asks for them to be delivered to a UK address. If the customer arranges to collect them from you, an indirect export, you may be able to zero-rate the sale as long as certain zero-rating conditions are met.

This was a while back, but I had discussed with Mitchell about the pricing.




UPDATE: Updated the OP to be a little easier for people to understand.

[Mitchell]

As Finland and The Netherlands are both in the EU, I don't have to pay VAT or import costs on the coins received from Denarium.

[Pistachio]

I would like to join the groupbuy as long as there is no VAT. What about a local in Finland? Do they still have to pay VAT?

[Mitchell]

I was talking about customs VAT in my own country, not sales VAT. No idea how that is done in Finland or what Denarium includes in their VAT statement.

[Blazed]

Interested in a loaded bull coin, but have some concerns...

I am concerned about quality after seeing Mitchells coin and hearing they knew coins were bad quality but sold anyways. I assume I have the option of a refund if the quality is not good? Why is it a pre-order for a small run of coins? I assume we will see high-quality pictures before the coins ship?

If so I will take 1 x Loaded Bull coin

[Lincoln6Echo]

Interested in a loaded bull coin, but have some concerns...

I am concerned about quality after seeing Mitchells coin and hearing they knew coins were bad quality but sold anyways. I assume I have the option of a refund if the quality is not good? Why is it a pre-order for a small run of coins? I assume we will see high-quality pictures before the coins ship?

If so I will take 1 x Loaded Bull coin

Yes, Denarium stated during the auction that one will get a refund if you are not satified with coin quality.

In Addition the silver coins will have a better quality because of additional mechanical tooling steps.

[Blazed]

Interested in a loaded bull coin, but have some concerns...

I am concerned about quality after seeing Mitchells coin and hearing they knew coins were bad quality but sold anyways. I assume I have the option of a refund if the quality is not good? Why is it a pre-order for a small run of coins? I assume we will see high-quality pictures before the coins ship?

If so I will take 1 x Loaded Bull coin

Yes, Denarium stated during the auction that one will get a refund if you are not satified with coin quality.

In Addition the silver coins will have a better quality because of additional mechanical tooling steps.

Alright, then that sounds good to me. ezminer...let me know what my cost would be for a coin shipped to me then.

[Technomage]

Hello guys,

All the purchases from the auction: if they include VAT, it is included in the price you already paid. We never mentioned VAT in the auction so we can't add VAT to anything, it wouldn't be fair. So there will be no extra VAT on anything anyone has already paid. Although the shipping cost will likely include VAT if you're routing the group shipping through the EU but that won't be a significant cost issue.

As for the quality of the coins, they will be better quality than our previous coins. We're making sure of that. For that price our customers should expect better quality so we have to deliver.

[ezeminer]

Interested in a loaded bull coin, but have some concerns...

I am concerned about quality after seeing Mitchells coin and hearing they knew coins were bad quality but sold anyways. I assume I have the option of a refund if the quality is not good? Why is it a pre-order for a small run of coins? I assume we will see high-quality pictures before the coins ship?

If so I will take 1 x Loaded Bull coin

Yes, Denarium stated during the auction that one will get a refund if you are not satified with coin quality.

In Addition the silver coins will have a better quality because of additional mechanical tooling steps.

Alright, then that sounds good to me. ezminer...let me know what my cost would be for a coin shipped to me then.

I'll message them for a quote. I can't give you an exact amount yet, although I have looked around here for price quotes. This link will download a pdf from the postnl site: http://www.postnl.com/mail/international-mail-delivery/bulk-mail/
http://www.postnl.com/Images/rates-sheetlet_tcm19-23153.pdf
It also says rates are exempt from VAT.
But we would also have to see about calling this a gift at under $100 based on their link here:
http://www.postnl.com/mail/mail-delivery-netherlands/international-mailing-restrictions-limitations/?country=us


If we estimate say 20 1oz coins. This comes to 15.18 euros or roughly $16.50 from Mitchell to I. 25 Euros ($27.13) from Denarium to Mitchell.
Comes to roughly $2.20 per coin.
Add $6 for regular priority mail in the US. Or you can do a bubble envelope for like $3 without tracking.

Say you order 1 Silver Bull. Comes to about $8.18 priority, $5.18 without priority.

That's about as close as I can get for an estimate at this time.

[Blazed]

So according to the website 1.2528BTC + whatever shipping ends up?

[ezeminer]

So according to the website 1.2528BTC + whatever shipping ends up?

Pretty much. I was going to pay the shipping costs, then pass the cost down to everyone including myself.

Just don't forget to message Technomage about the group buy at checkout.

[Mitchell]

Although the shipping cost will likely include VAT if you're routing the group shipping through the EU but that won't be a significant cost issue.

Could you enlighten me why that might happen? As far as I know, you don't get charged VAT on Silver within EU borders. That would destroy the whole purpose of the EU itself.

[Technomage]

Could you enlighten me why that might happen? As far as I know, you don't get charged VAT on Silver within EU borders. That would destroy the whole purpose of the EU itself.

The pure silver value itself doesn't have VAT, that's true, and technically we could separate the silver value in our products as VAT free and only have it on the non-silver value of our coin product, to save on VAT costs. Currently we don't do that and thus the physical part of our coin does include VAT for EU sales.

Basically everything except silver and bitcoin value and some other exceptions have VAT and especially when sold to someone in the EU. If we sell to outside of the EU, then it doesn't have VAT on anything. Silver is a big exception just like bitcoins. But for example any gold sale between EU countries will have VAT.

But with my post I was referring to the shipping / courier cost itself, not the products in the package. The shipping cost can have VAT regardless of the products inside.

[ezeminer]

Could you enlighten me why that might happen? As far as I know, you don't get charged VAT on Silver within EU borders. That would destroy the whole purpose of the EU itself.

The pure silver value itself doesn't have VAT, that's true, and technically we could separate the silver value in our products as VAT free and only have it on the non-silver value of our coin product, to save on VAT costs. Currently we don't do that and thus the physical part of our coin does include VAT for EU sales.

Basically everything except silver and bitcoin value and some other exceptions have VAT and especially when sold to someone in the EU. If we sell to outside of the EU, then it doesn't have VAT on anything. Silver is a big exception just like bitcoins. But for example any gold sale between EU countries will have VAT.

But with my post I was referring to the shipping / courier cost itself, not the products in the package. The shipping cost can have VAT regardless of the products inside.

So pretty much if we ship to mitchell we get VAT (24%)?
If you don't count the silver to VAT you still get taxed for the Bitcoin value?

But if you ship directly to me we don't get VAT?

Man VAT really isn't nice.

[Mitchell]

VAT would be 21% over here, by the way, and I have no idea how the fuck that shit works anymore. Thought I understood it, but apparently I don't.

[Mitchell]

If you guys can find a cheaper way to get your coins, go for it! I don't mind.

[Blazed]

VAT lolplz...