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Author Topic: Opinions about tetherUSD, coinoUSD, BitShares 2.0 and BitUSD?  (Read 3246 times)
SebastianJu
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October 24, 2015, 05:14:46 PM
 #1

Hi,

i want to hear opinions about the trustworthiness of the above named coins since i'm searching an alternative to NuBits, that i used till now to hedge against a falling bitcoin price. To protect my value. Though in the last price rise of bitcoin i noticed that the liquidity bot, that creates the buy and sell orders on the exchanges, simply did only create small orders on the buy side. Which means i could not exchange my nubits to bitcoins. Which means they lost their pegging to the USD for me then.

That's why i search alternatives. I was told some coins in this thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1211057.new#new and on another place but i would like to hear opinions about how trustworthy these 4 suggestions are.

Thank you!

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brekyrself
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October 24, 2015, 05:32:37 PM
 #2

Trustworthiness of the Bitshares dev's is not an issue.  They don't hide behind computers and have been very active over the years at conferences.  They even hold weekly mumble sessions you can jump on and ask questions etc...

The 2.0 wallet just came out and with that will be bugs and issues so use it accordingly.  OpenLedger provides a nice Bitshares on/off ramp especially with their nano debit card.  Overall it's a great solution where you can trade other chains such as BTC without having to trust a 3rd party exchange with both sides of the bet.

I will add, research yourself such as GitHub repositories to get an idea how much effort is going into these projects. 
https://github.com/bitshares (BTS 1.0 had 8311 commits, BTS 2.0 so far has 1046 commits.  Shows you how active they are)
https://github.com/cryptonomex <--creators of bitshares that are also creating specialized chains for the music industry etc... 
SebastianJu
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October 24, 2015, 09:41:22 PM
 #3

Trustworthiness of the Bitshares dev's is not an issue.  They don't hide behind computers and have been very active over the years at conferences.  They even hold weekly mumble sessions you can jump on and ask questions etc...

The 2.0 wallet just came out and with that will be bugs and issues so use it accordingly.  OpenLedger provides a nice Bitshares on/off ramp especially with their nano debit card.  Overall it's a great solution where you can trade other chains such as BTC without having to trust a 3rd party exchange with both sides of the bet.

I will add, research yourself such as GitHub repositories to get an idea how much effort is going into these projects. 
https://github.com/bitshares (BTS 1.0 had 8311 commits, BTS 2.0 so far has 1046 commits.  Shows you how active they are)
https://github.com/cryptonomex <--creators of bitshares that are also creating specialized chains for the music industry etc... 

Thanks for your insight into bitshares. So how does the pegging to 1usd work? Will bitshares 2 always have that value? How is that value establisheD?

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CoinHoarder
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October 24, 2015, 10:23:58 PM
 #4

Thanks for your insight into bitshares. So how does the pegging to 1usd work? Will bitshares 2 always have that value? How is that value establisheD?

It is complicated. This explains it better than I can: https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/
brekyrself
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October 24, 2015, 10:27:18 PM
 #5

Trustworthiness of the Bitshares dev's is not an issue.  They don't hide behind computers and have been very active over the years at conferences.  They even hold weekly mumble sessions you can jump on and ask questions etc...

The 2.0 wallet just came out and with that will be bugs and issues so use it accordingly.  OpenLedger provides a nice Bitshares on/off ramp especially with their nano debit card.  Overall it's a great solution where you can trade other chains such as BTC without having to trust a 3rd party exchange with both sides of the bet.

I will add, research yourself such as GitHub repositories to get an idea how much effort is going into these projects.  
https://github.com/bitshares (BTS 1.0 had 8311 commits, BTS 2.0 so far has 1046 commits.  Shows you how active they are)
https://github.com/cryptonomex <--creators of bitshares that are also creating specialized chains for the music industry etc...  

Thanks for your insight into bitshares. So how does the pegging to 1usd work? Will bitshares 2 always have that value? How is that value establisheD?

Some links to start reading.  These cover 1.0 however 2.0 just improves upon all of this.  Lots to read and comprehend, it will take more then a day!

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/
http://bytemaster.github.io/guest/2014/12/22/How-BitShares-Works/
http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2015/01/01/How-to-create-a-stable-decentralized-crypto-currency/

His blog in general is a great source of crypto information.  http://bytemaster.github.io/all/


2.0 specifically:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16744.0.html
Honestman
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October 25, 2015, 05:18:04 AM
 #6

I trust BitUSD. Coinousd can be transfered to BitUSD. I notice some exchanges accept BitUSD deposit.
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November 08, 2015, 04:40:32 PM
 #7

TetherUSD is a USD token stored on the Bitcoin blockchain. You do have to trust that they aren't going to run away with the USD in their bank account that backs it.

It'd be nice if they wrote an Android app version of their wallet.
SebastianJu
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November 09, 2015, 07:42:24 PM
 #8

I checked out coinoUSD on poloniex but it seems they have a huge spread there and no volume. So they are useless for me.

Bitshares 1 seems to be run on poloniex, will they update on version 2 soon??

TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.

I wonder if bitshares 2 are really better and bitusd? Where do they trade best and what is the insurance on bitusd that they can back the value and don't run with the backing?

At the moment it looks to me like only nubits have the low enough spread and good enough filled orderbooks to use it. Though not really in times of crashes or fast rising prices.

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November 09, 2015, 08:03:32 PM
 #9

I checked out coinoUSD on poloniex but it seems they have a huge spread there and no volume. So they are useless for me.

Bitshares 1 seems to be run on poloniex, will they update on version 2 soon??

TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.

I wonder if bitshares 2 are really better and bitusd? Where do they trade best and what is the insurance on bitusd that they can back the value and don't run with the backing?

At the moment it looks to me like only nubits have the low enough spread and good enough filled orderbooks to use it. Though not really in times of crashes or fast rising prices.

Poloniex upgraded to bts 2.0 last month.  Have you read any of the links I posted above or checked out the wallet?  The links will answer your questions on what "backs" BitUSD, BitBTC, and all the BitAssets.  Check out the hosted wallet by OpenLedger https://bitshares.openledger.info/
mmortal03
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November 09, 2015, 09:09:25 PM
 #10


TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.


Well, TetherUSD is treated the same as USD on Bitfinex, so that's a positive.
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November 09, 2015, 09:30:59 PM
 #11

I checked out coinoUSD on poloniex but it seems they have a huge spread there and no volume. So they are useless for me.

Bitshares 1 seems to be run on poloniex, will they update on version 2 soon??

TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.

I wonder if bitshares 2 are really better and bitusd? Where do they trade best and what is the insurance on bitusd that they can back the value and don't run with the backing?

At the moment it looks to me like only nubits have the low enough spread and good enough filled orderbooks to use it. Though not really in times of crashes or fast rising prices.

Poloniex upgraded to bts 2.0 last month.  Have you read any of the links I posted above or checked out the wallet?  The links will answer your questions on what "backs" BitUSD, BitBTC, and all the BitAssets.  Check out the hosted wallet by OpenLedger https://bitshares.openledger.info/

He didn't, take note he is running a signature campaign.

BitUSD has been more liquid in my use than Tether.  I love the elegance of Tether, but there is simply too much spread on their books where I trade to make much profit.

SebastianJu
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November 10, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
 #12

I checked out coinoUSD on poloniex but it seems they have a huge spread there and no volume. So they are useless for me.

Bitshares 1 seems to be run on poloniex, will they update on version 2 soon??

TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.

I wonder if bitshares 2 are really better and bitusd? Where do they trade best and what is the insurance on bitusd that they can back the value and don't run with the backing?

At the moment it looks to me like only nubits have the low enough spread and good enough filled orderbooks to use it. Though not really in times of crashes or fast rising prices.

Poloniex upgraded to bts 2.0 last month.  Have you read any of the links I posted above or checked out the wallet?  The links will answer your questions on what "backs" BitUSD, BitBTC, and all the BitAssets.  Check out the hosted wallet by OpenLedger https://bitshares.openledger.info/

I wanted to check out bitshares but then i was told that it must be an error that bitshares is worth $1 always. I checked the prices on poloniex and it really doesn't look like a bitshare, you say it is version 2, is worth something like that, nor there is a inverse connection to the bitcoinvalue. The bitshares are only worth some K satoshis. So i don't see where the connection is. Besides, only one side of the orderbook seems to hold enough coin value to make it possible to exchange a reasonable amount of btc to a USD fiat replacement.

Or is there a better place with higher volume? And it seems poloniex doesn't have bitusd, i can't find it at least.

I have read the first link but i don't get it yet. There is no fiat or so backing it. It all is based on trust and believe in the value of bitusd. That sounds risky since i don't see how it can be secured that way. Through the shorters? So value in shorts are rising when price of bitusd sinks, so the total value of the currency remains stable or something like that? Though i don't see how those who hold bitusd can trust that the bitusd price can not crash. They should have nothing from shorts becoming worth much then.

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November 10, 2015, 12:06:09 PM
 #13

Here an interesting post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1237187.msg12895069#msg12895069

So bitUSD really have no volume? http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets

If true then this would mean that you can't effectively use it, though you mentioned, or i read it somewhere, that it somehow is possible to buy and sell even though no offer exists. I wonder if that can be healthily done without risks.

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November 10, 2015, 12:33:40 PM
 #14

So bitUSD really have no volume? http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets

coinmarketcap not updated yet after BitShares 2.0 release.
BitShares developers will provide to coinmarketcap new data source for internal BitShares markets soon and when you will see BitUSD volume. But meanwhile you can check BitUSD volume in BitShares 2.0 online wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info

coinmarketcap also doesn't count CCEDK BitUSD volume:
https://www.ccedk.com/bitusd-usd

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brekyrself
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November 10, 2015, 05:11:30 PM
 #15

I checked out coinoUSD on poloniex but it seems they have a huge spread there and no volume. So they are useless for me.

Bitshares 1 seems to be run on poloniex, will they update on version 2 soon??

TetherUSD is used on plo directly but the orderbooks are too thin to exchange really there. And i don't see a full relation to the US-Dollar.

I wonder if bitshares 2 are really better and bitusd? Where do they trade best and what is the insurance on bitusd that they can back the value and don't run with the backing?

At the moment it looks to me like only nubits have the low enough spread and good enough filled orderbooks to use it. Though not really in times of crashes or fast rising prices.

Poloniex upgraded to bts 2.0 last month.  Have you read any of the links I posted above or checked out the wallet?  The links will answer your questions on what "backs" BitUSD, BitBTC, and all the BitAssets.  Check out the hosted wallet by OpenLedger https://bitshares.openledger.info/

I wanted to check out bitshares but then i was told that it must be an error that bitshares is worth $1 always. I checked the prices on poloniex and it really doesn't look like a bitshare, you say it is version 2, is worth something like that, nor there is a inverse connection to the bitcoinvalue. The bitshares are only worth some K satoshis. So i don't see where the connection is. Besides, only one side of the orderbook seems to hold enough coin value to make it possible to exchange a reasonable amount of btc to a USD fiat replacement.

Or is there a better place with higher volume? And it seems poloniex doesn't have bitusd, i can't find it at least.

I have read the first link but i don't get it yet. There is no fiat or so backing it. It all is based on trust and believe in the value of bitusd. That sounds risky since i don't see how it can be secured that way. Through the shorters? So value in shorts are rising when price of bitusd sinks, so the total value of the currency remains stable or something like that? Though i don't see how those who hold bitusd can trust that the bitusd price can not crash. They should have nothing from shorts becoming worth much then.

Keep reading, it honestly takes time to wrap your head around BitShares. 

At a high level you can think of BitShares as an options exchange where instead of being settled in USD, its settled in BitShares.  So when buying wheat on the market your not actually going to take delivery of wheat, your only betting on the value (up or down).  BitShares however goes further as someday merchants may accept bitUSD, BitEuro etc... thus has fantastic potential.

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November 10, 2015, 10:19:40 PM
 #16

bitUSD is hard to find cheaply (which is why there is low volume) because it can always be sold for at least $1

bitUSD = no matter how much you have, you can ALWAYS sell it all for $1 whenever you want (without counterparty risk of course)

because they made the mechanism that way, it is simple to understand

bitUSD - hard to buy (at a good price), but easy to sell (at a good price)

get it?

All the others are easy to buy (at a good price) but hard to sell (at a good price)

and that is why bitUSD is unique

Which do you prefer?

1. easy buy hard sell (all the rest)
2. hard buy easy sell (bitUSD)

To find the answer, just ask yourself if you like getting trapped in a trade (unable to exit a position)(holding a bag)

Now you have learned something about yourself, and are able to choose the correct option that is best for you

In fact i mostly need a fast trade when i held bitcoins and they start to crash. I then try to get my value into a stable cryptocurrency. And those are mostly artificially held at a price connected to fiat.

I'm not sure that i can follow your explainations about why they should be hard to sell or buy. I mean as long as the price is not very volatile you can fast buy and sell nubits. I did not see a difference there.

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November 10, 2015, 10:22:53 PM
 #17

So bitUSD really have no volume? http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets

coinmarketcap not updated yet after BitShares 2.0 release.
BitShares developers will provide to coinmarketcap new data source for internal BitShares markets soon and when you will see BitUSD volume. But meanwhile you can check BitUSD volume in BitShares 2.0 online wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info

coinmarketcap also doesn't count CCEDK BitUSD volume:
https://www.ccedk.com/bitusd-usd

I would need to create an account there. Can you tell me the volume and can you agree with the hard to buy part bitcoinsatan explained?

I mostly use these coins to protect me against a falling bitcoin price.

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November 10, 2015, 10:35:48 PM
 #18

Why not use futures to protect against a fall in the bitcoin price?
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November 10, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
 #19

Why not use futures to protect against a fall in the bitcoin price?

Futures are very liquid and designed for hedging; I like to use 796 exchange where they have no fees to hedge and speculate.
In addition, you can typically sell the future at a price higher than the spot rate and make an arbitrage between spot and futures markets; all it takes to make a profit is the patience to hold until expiration and enough margin to protect yourself from volatility. There is sometimes a counterparty risk on the futures exchanges though.
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November 11, 2015, 01:16:20 AM
 #20

So bitUSD really have no volume? http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets

coinmarketcap not updated yet after BitShares 2.0 release.
BitShares developers will provide to coinmarketcap new data source for internal BitShares markets soon and when you will see BitUSD volume. But meanwhile you can check BitUSD volume in BitShares 2.0 online wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info

coinmarketcap also doesn't count CCEDK BitUSD volume:
https://www.ccedk.com/bitusd-usd

I would need to create an account there. Can you tell me the volume and can you agree with the hard to buy part bitcoinsatan explained?

I mostly use these coins to protect me against a falling bitcoin price.

To create account you just need specify user name and password, no additional info like e-mail, and it's cost 0.
Last days, BTS/USD trading volume 3000-11000$ per day, BTS/CNY: 0-39000 CNY, BTS/GOLD: 0.3-1 troy ounce .999 fine gold, BTS/SILVER: 0-196 troy ounce .999 fine silver

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