Opinions about tetherUSD, coinoUSD, BitShares 2.0 and BitUSD?

[tokeweed]

USD pegged crypto are badly needed.  But there's no support from the bigger exchanges. 

[e-coinomist]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

[tokeweed]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

Yeah, but it would suck holding that in an exchange.

[1aguar]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

Yeah, but it would suck holding that in an exchange.

You can store fiat at Uphold; it is the world's leading cloud-based money platform formerly known as BitReserve.

[blackyblack]

non-smartcoin/counterparty backed USD tokens can be easily purchased in any quantity, but difficult to sell large quantities at $1 when crypto is rising

Counterparty backed USD tokens are not dependent on crypto price. They can be sold exactly at $1 if counterparty plays honestly and does not use partial reserves.

Check out coinomat.com site to easily exchange coinoUSD to BTC or BTC to coinoUSD.

[blackyblack]

non-smartcoin/counterparty backed USD tokens can be easily purchased in any quantity, but difficult to sell large quantities at $1 when crypto is rising

Counterparty backed USD tokens are not dependent on crypto price. They can be sold exactly at $1 if counterparty plays honestly and does not use partial reserves.

I'm just not really into wondering "if i can trust counterparties" anymore.  That's the whole reason why I got into Bitcoin in the first place (so i can deal with robots instead of people)

Counterparty risk is well known. I just do not understand where did you get this idea that crypto USD should be hard to buy or to sell. I show you that with coinoUSD it is easy to buy and to sell.

You are asking "can you sell any quantity of non-smartcoins for exactly $1?". You can sell any amount of coinoUSD for exactly $1. It will take some time though while hot wallet is being refilled for really big orders.

[monsterer]

bitAssets replace counterparty risk with systematic risk. On the one hand, you don't rely on a centralised entity which can get hacked, but on the other you have to play by the rules of the system, which is susceptible to black swan events and other systematic risks.

[HeroCat]

They do not have enough altcoin market share to get interest  There are a lot of altcoins around, which are not so popular 

[mmortal03]

USD pegged crypto are badly needed.  But there's no support from the bigger exchanges.  

Like I mentioned above, Bitfinex supports TetherUSD, and treats it just like USD. Someone just needs to develop an Omni-token supporting Android app (though wallet.tether.to does work on mobile), and an Omni-token supporting desktop wallet. It'd also be cool if we could hold TetherUSD on a Trezor.

[SebastianJu]

Why not use futures to protect against a fall in the bitcoin price?

Because you have to trust the exchanges with your value then. I would like to take my coins into my own wallet. Then i only would need to trust the coin itself.

[SebastianJu]

Why not use futures to protect against a fall in the bitcoin price?

Futures are very liquid and designed for hedging; I like to use 796 exchange where they have no fees to hedge and speculate.
In addition, you can typically sell the future at a price higher than the spot rate and make an arbitrage between spot and futures markets; all it takes to make a profit is the patience to hold until expiration and enough margin to protect yourself from volatility. There is sometimes a counterparty risk on the futures exchanges though.

I traded on 796.com too once. But the support was nonexistant. Which drove me away. I believe another problem was the spread in orderbook. Too low volume so that it was hard to close positions with a profit. I now, if i do it at all, trade cfd on okcoin.com. It is the best place for leveraged bitcoin trading i found so far.

[SebastianJu]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

Fiat means you have to hold it on an exchange. Which is, we know, very risky. And if you push fiat from and to your bank account then this is very slow. Means when bitcoin is rising you need days to put it on an exchange. At that time the price already might drop.

It's better if it is possible to act fast and don't have to trust the exchange to not get hacked or being run by scammers.

[SebastianJu]

So bitUSD really have no volume? http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets

coinmarketcap not updated yet after BitShares 2.0 release.
BitShares developers will provide to coinmarketcap new data source for internal BitShares markets soon and when you will see BitUSD volume. But meanwhile you can check BitUSD volume in BitShares 2.0 online wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info

coinmarketcap also doesn't count CCEDK BitUSD volume:
https://www.ccedk.com/bitusd-usd

I would need to create an account there. Can you tell me the volume and can you agree with the hard to buy part bitcoinsatan explained?

I mostly use these coins to protect me against a falling bitcoin price.

To create account you just need specify user name and password, no additional info like e-mail, and it's cost 0.
Last days, BTS/USD trading volume 3000-11000$ per day, BTS/CNY: 0-39000 CNY, BTS/GOLD: 0.3-1 troy ounce .999 fine gold, BTS/SILVER: 0-196 troy ounce .999 fine silver

Hm, sounds still like it is not very much. I wonder if the orderbook is filled enough at all to exchange a couple thousand USD worth. Nubits on poloniex have 88k volume per day. plus the other exchanges. but even then it is only usefull because they artificial create buy and sell walls you can buy into.

[SebastianJu]

when i say hard to buy i mean that only select exchanges carry bitUSD, coupled with the fact that bitUSD usually sells for a premium (like the premium you pay when purchasing physical gold or silver).

I should have said

bitUSD (smartcoin) = expensive to buy, but easy to liquidate any amount at $1

non-smartcoin/counterparty backed USD tokens can be easily purchased in any quantity, but difficult to sell large quantities at $1 when crypto is rising


Yeah, BitShares is hard to learn

thats why they made bitUSD simple with 1 rule only:

"you can sell any quantity at $1"

what more do you need to know?

can you sell any quantity of non-smartcoins for exactly $1?

Sounds good for protecting against a bitcoin price crash. Though it still would be a costly thing when you would have to pay a premium to go back. Or to go into bitusd again. You only can sell them when you bought them before. So i don't know if it makes much sense.

[SebastianJu]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

Yeah, but it would suck holding that in an exchange.

You can store fiat at Uphold; it is the world's leading cloud-based money platform formerly known as BitReserve.

You still would have to trust the platform that you get your fiat out when you want to, right?

[SebastianJu]

non-smartcoin/counterparty backed USD tokens can be easily purchased in any quantity, but difficult to sell large quantities at $1 when crypto is rising

Counterparty backed USD tokens are not dependent on crypto price. They can be sold exactly at $1 if counterparty plays honestly and does not use partial reserves.

I'm just not really into wondering "if i can trust counterparties" anymore.  That's the whole reason why I got into Bitcoin in the first place (so i can deal with robots instead of people)

Counterparty risk is well known. I just do not understand where did you get this idea that crypto USD should be hard to buy or to sell. I show you that with coinoUSD it is easy to buy and to sell.

You are asking "can you sell any quantity of non-smartcoins for exactly $1?". You can sell any amount of coinoUSD for exactly $1. It will take some time though while hot wallet is being refilled for really big orders.

Lets say $1000 already should be a problem when i see the orderbook for coinousd. And in the case you need it you want to exchange fast because most probable the bitcoin price is crashing at that moment.

[1aguar]

Sebastian, consider plain FIAT

Yeah, but it would suck holding that in an exchange.

You can store fiat at Uphold; it is the world's leading cloud-based money platform formerly known as BitReserve.

You still would have to trust the platform that you get your fiat out when you want to, right?

You could just convert your fiat right back to bitcoin at Uphold. You would probably need a verified account. As far as trust goes, you can read about their blockchain and ledger technology; I personally have no problem in trusting a bank that is operating with a full reserve.

By the way, 796 has much better volume and features nowadays. There is still the risk of socialized profits, but it is much smaller with their insurance fund.

[blackyblack]

bitAssets replace counterparty risk with systematic risk. On the one hand, you don't rely on a centralised entity which can get hacked, but on the other you have to play by the rules of the system, which is susceptible to black swan events and other systematic risks.

true, the possible systemic risks here are the same risks that bitcoin has:

1. Satoshi's core code gets hacked
2. The internet goes down worldwide and never recovers (which would also affect any USD token smart or otherwise)

These are the risks that bitcoin and bitUSD cannot shield you from

Black swan event is much more possible that the risks you described.

[blackyblack]

You are forgetting that price for bitassets is being fed by limited number of nodes based on centralized exchange prices. Attacker could counterfeit price feeds, or crash prices on thin orderbook for a short period of time (with leverage trading), or take node operators hostage.
You do not need to invent some catastrophe to see a Black Swan on BTS.

Me personally is scared to create bitUSD since I do not know how my collateral is safe from margin called. I can make 200-300% collateral but how can I know that we won't see 1 day flash crash or some exchange will go Gox and price feeds will not be relevant.

[testz]

Black swan event is much more possible that the risks you described.

Don't forget that black swan event can happen for every commodity and fiat currencies as well.