Announcing the Bitcoin Kiez rollout

[Akka]

Despite what you may read about the forum, unconfirmed transactions work plenty well enough for this sort of thing.

What if you send a 0-fee TX that doesn't exceed the priority threshold, so it will sit unconfirmed for days, but then you are able to double spend it back to another address of yours with a fee when you get back home?

Of course there are risks.

But how often would this happen?

1. If you do a double spend in a shop or a bar, you will never shop there again or drink a beer there again
2. We are not talking about values of 1000nds of $ here, but a normal Bill at a bar or shop
3. If that's you reasoning as a shop owner, you should also not accept Credit Cards, because the person could always do a charge back later or the Credit doesn't have any backing
4. The normal user isn't even able to do a double spend and it will get less and less the more Bitcoin goes mainstream, but everyone can do a CC charge back or pay without having enough backing on his account.

In addition there is always the "risk" that your transaction actually confirms.

[1714160453]

1714160453

[giszmo]

Despite what you may read about the forum, unconfirmed transactions work plenty well enough for this sort of thing.

What if you send a 0-fee TX that doesn't exceed the priority threshold, so it will sit unconfirmed for days, but then you are able to double spend it back to another address of yours with a fee when you get back home?

Of course there are risks.

But how often would this happen?

1. If you do a double spend in a shop or a bar, you will never shop there again or drink a beer there again
2. We are not talking about values of 1000nds of $ here, but a normal Bill at a bar or shop
3. If that's you reasoning as a shop owner, you should also not accept Credit Cards, because the person could always do a charge back later or the Credit doesn't have any backing
4. The normal user isn't even able to do a double spend and it will get less and less the more Bitcoin goes mainstream, but everyone can do a CC charge back or pay without having enough backing on his account.

In addition there is always the "risk" that your transaction actually confirms.

If your transaction doesn't contain the minimum fee, it will not be relayed to the shop owner neither.

[TheButterZone]

Unless blockchain.info is involved (not a peep about zero fee, insufficient priority pushtx; it pops up on the /address/ page irregardless)...

[dhenson]

Vive la Revolution!

[No_2]

Does anyone know where I can get the window stickers for "Bitcoin taken here"? See below:



I'm trying to create packs for retailers all round the world and want to do a push to all the small shops in Brighton, UK:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188918.0

[yossarian]

Does anyone know where I can get the window stickers for "Bitcoin taken here"? See below:

I'm trying to create packs for retailers all round the world and want to do a push to all the small shops in Brighton, UK:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188918.0

Bitmit seems like a good start:

https://www.bitmit.net/de/item/29675-10-bitcoin-sticker-9-8-x-9-8-cm and https://www.bitmit.net/de/item/20068-bitcoin-accepted-here-vinyl-window-cling-sticker are the most popular ones.

[No_2]

Does anyone know where I can get the window stickers for "Bitcoin taken here"? See below:

I'm trying to create packs for retailers all round the world and want to do a push to all the small shops in Brighton, UK:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188918.0

Bitmit seems like a good start:

https://www.bitmit.net/de/item/29675-10-bitcoin-sticker-9-8-x-9-8-cm and https://www.bitmit.net/de/item/20068-bitcoin-accepted-here-vinyl-window-cling-sticker are the most popular ones.

Thanks! I've just signed up and bought 100 stickers to give out.

What tablet application/website was ROOM77 using to accept customer payments in the Guardian video? I'm trying to write up an info sheet of methods to take customer payemtn so a list of different methods of how to do this would be useful:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188918.0

[joecooin]

Unless blockchain.info is involved

Indeed. We all here accept payments as soon as they are on the blockhain without waiting for confirmations. Takes no more than a few seconds in the absolute majority of cases. Only blockchain.info webwalletstuff is a problem as it takes unneccessarily longer.

We will keep on doing so untill we suffer the first double-spend attack, which I expect some time soon actually, carried out by some nerds as proof of concept who will come back after an hour and smile and pay their bill anyway .

Joe

[joecooin]

What tablet application/website was ROOM77 using to accept customer payments in the Guardian video?

We are using an android tablett with a Bitcoin Wallet (from Andreas Schildbach) installed. Alternatively, people can scan an address from a printed qr-code, call up an address from btc.to in a webbrowser or - pretty cool - just put their nfc-enabled device on our actual physical wallet (the one made of leather containing paper- and metall-tokens) and and the wallet on the device opens and has our payment address already read in via the rfid-sticker-magic developed by sodoku.

Other places use other stuff, depending on their likes and existing infrastructure if they don't want to spend the money on a tablett. But in all cases the payment process nowadays is just faster than any other digital payment and about as fast as receiving cash in many cases.

Joe

[No_2]

What tablet application/website was ROOM77 using to accept customer payments in the Guardian video?

We are using an android tablett with a Bitcoin Wallet (from Andreas Schildbach) installed. Alternatively, people can scan an address from a printed qr-code, call up an address from btc.to in a webbrowser or - pretty cool - just put their nfc-enabled device on our actual physical wallet (the one made of leather containing paper- and metall-tokens) and and the wallet on the device opens and has our payment address already read in via the rfid-sticker-magic developed by sodoku.

Other places use other stuff, depending on their likes and existing infrastructure if they don't want to spend the money on a tablett. But in all cases the payment process nowadays is just faster than any other digital payment and about as fast as receiving cash in many cases.

Joe

Thanks for this. I'm first going to try this out with mainly technical high-street businesses as they'll be most receptive and can provide feedback on what suits them best.

[thehobbit85]

This is SOOOO cool. I'm in Berlin right now and I have to check it out!
My name is Eliran Zach and I started an Israeli Bitcoin exchange website called Bitgo.
You can find it at https://www.bitgo.co.il but currently it's only in hebrew so...
I would love to meet some of the Berlin Bitcoin community at one of this bars. I think it will be awesome meeting other enthusiasts to discuss Bitcoin, life and the universe.
pm me if your in the area and would like to meet for a pint.

[2weiX]

This is SOOOO cool. I'm in Berlin right now and I have to check it out!
My name is Eliran Zach and I started an Israeli Bitcoin exchange website called Bitgo.
You can find it at https://www.bitgo.co.il but currently it's only in hebrew so...
I would love to meet some of the Berlin Bitcoin community at one of this bars. I think it will be awesome meeting other enthusiasts to discuss Bitcoin, life and the universe.
pm me if your in the area and would like to meet for a pint.

come by on thursday, many forumers will attend, it's always a full house!

[Mike Hearn]

Over time we'll probably chip away at the issues that can sometimes result in double spending of 0-conf transactions (miner node restarts, etc). Finney Attacks are the obvious one that has no real solution, but they're also very hard to pull off with the system as it is today because no-one is selling such services.

[thehobbit85]

This is SOOOO cool. I'm in Berlin right now and I have to check it out!
My name is Eliran Zach and I started an Israeli Bitcoin exchange website called Bitgo.
You can find it at https://www.bitgo.co.il but currently it's only in hebrew so...
I would love to meet some of the Berlin Bitcoin community at one of this bars. I think it will be awesome meeting other enthusiasts to discuss Bitcoin, life and the universe.
pm me if your in the area and would like to meet for a pint.

come by on thursday, many forumers will attend, it's always a full house!

Currently I'm planning on being in Hamburg on thursday but if it will get cancelled I'll defiantly come to 77.

[Stemby]

Fabelhaft Bar
Schönleinstraße 6
10967 Berlin

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?note=12184

Could you report to the owner that their website currently doesn't work?

http://www.fabelhaftberlin.de/

Thank you!

[minimalB]

I just came from Berlin trip yesterday.

Well, all is not as smooth as expected regarding bitcoin.

Several places are not open at the beginning of the week, some of them are open only afternoon or on just specific days, Floors cafe was closed all the time (although there was an open sign from Tuesday at 11h).

I was unable to find certain places that are stated in OP, for example Primo Maggio was like some imaginary place...

Also some places marked at http://bitcoinkiez.de are incorrect.

Guys, I don't wanna be a "Spielverderber", but better prepare in advance like crazy if you'd like to check most of the bitcoin places.

But the bottom line is: it was SOOO COOL to sit down at Room77, take rollberg beer, enjoy the tasty burger and pay with coins! Very nice experience!

WARNING: next day's Room77 farts are "tasty" too!  : )))))

[Stemby]

@minimalB: do you know CoinMap?

http://coinmap.org/

[elebit]

Guys, I don't wanna be a "Spielverderber", but better prepare in advance like crazy if you'd like to check most of the bitcoin places.

I'm also preparing a Berlin trip to check out Bitcoin Kiez. Could you share any more practical details? I don't really have any information to make preparations from...

[minimalB]

@minimalB: do you know CoinMap?
http://coinmap.org/

Didn't know about it, thanks for the info. Looks great!

I'm also preparing a Berlin trip to check out Bitcoin Kiez. Could you share any more practical details?

Just make sure that you check opening days and opening hours of every place you want to visit, so you'll know in advance how to plan your trip. Also, as a side note, Kiez can look quite spooky at nights (if you are a visitor and not used to this place).

And don't forget to report here : )

Cheers!

[elebit]

Just make sure that you check opening days and opening hours of every place you want to visit, so you'll know in advance how to plan your trip.

The trouble is, not many places have updated web pages. I can only find two or three places that accept bitcoin there on the Internet, and there's got to be a few places more, right?