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Author Topic: Senator Charles Schumer Pushes to Shut Down Online Drug Marketplace  (Read 23078 times)
Anonymous
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June 06, 2011, 03:11:40 AM
 #21

Good. This should be shut down. And if bitcoins value drops one penny we should all sue the owner of the silk road. Bitcoin is to young and to small to be associated with this sort of thing. I hope he is imprisoned and bankrupt simultaneously.

What have you been smoking?
Nothing apparently.
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June 06, 2011, 03:19:46 AM
 #22

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.
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June 06, 2011, 03:30:09 AM
 #23

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

How about focusing on exterminating these rich and powerful people?
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June 06, 2011, 03:37:11 AM
 #24

Let them eat cake.

Agreed.  I feel its a much safer version of drug dealing.  Besides, people should have the freedom to put what they want in their bodies in the first place.  If they want to OD on heroin... so be it.

My response is always:  bitcoin is not your forum to push your ideology.

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

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June 06, 2011, 03:46:17 AM
 #25

So apparently this is us:

""It's an online form of money laundering used to disguise the source of money, and to disguise who's both selling and buying the drug," said Schumer."

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

It's better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
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June 06, 2011, 03:48:23 AM
 #26

My response is always:  bitcoin is not your forum to push your ideology.

Its not anybodies forum, isn't that the point.


If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

Regardless of how fluffy bunny cute you want it to be, with a system designed as bitcoin has been, you can push all you want but it won't stop that type of behavior.



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June 06, 2011, 03:49:39 AM
 #27

wow, knew this would happen. This is exactly what we don't want for bitcoin. Sad

i think i disagree.  i think it's exactly what we do want.

we now have a 62 petaflop network - and it's time to put it to a real-world test.

as for schumer, he's a politician.  some of them actually care a little bit about the people they represent, most don't (and i think schumer is one of the ones who does, no matter how misguided he may be).

but they all care about money more than anything else - they're forced to, if they want to keep getting re-elected.

so send some donations to our good mr. schumer.

in Bitcoin.  he'll figure it out...
mewantsbitcoins
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June 06, 2011, 03:55:05 AM
 #28

My response is always:  bitcoin is not your forum to push your ideology.

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

While it may be worth a try, I'm afraid your efforts may be futile. Firstly, you just revealed to your enemy what you are afraid off and secondly, they control the media and media likes sensationalist stories. They will manipulate how Bitcoin is perceived regardless of what we do. The only way we will come on top is if we have indestructible infrastructure. Only then will people start seeing Bitcoin for what it is - the free, worldwide currency that belongs to them. And only then they will dare use it
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June 06, 2011, 03:56:34 AM
 #29

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

I think you are granting schumer too much naivety. He is well versed in the ways of the world and well paid in "campaign contributions" primarily by large legal and financial corporations. He is firmly "in the pocket", so to speak.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/industries.php?cycle=2010&cid=N00001093&type=I&newmem=N

It works for his donors for him to tie bitcoins to illegal activities. He only "sees" what he is told in these regards I can imagine.

On the plus side, we now get to see the faces of the facist rats as they poke their noses out from their hidey hole of labyrinthine legislation and corrupt financial dealings.


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June 06, 2011, 03:57:11 AM
 #30

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

How about focusing on exterminating these rich and powerful people?

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.
Ian Maxwell
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June 06, 2011, 04:01:17 AM
 #31

This is my first draft of a letter to Mr. Schumer. Any suggestions/critiques?

Quote
Dear Mr. Senator:

I write today in response to your recent announcements regarding Silk Road, which as you stated is a web service allowing people to buy and sell drugs and other items anonymously. Many of these traders are located in the United States, making their activity unquestionably illegal.

I expect you will soon receive a deluge of angry letters challenging your stance on drug policy. This is not such a letter. The law is the law and will be enforced. This letter is concerned only with matters of fact, specifically those found in your recent statements on Silk Road and Bitcoin. Much of what you have said is misleading or inaccurate as it stands.

Firstly, there is no reason to believe that Silk Road is operated from within the United States (in fact I suspect it is not). Because of the way in which the Tor anonymity network operates, Silk Road doesn't have a fixed IP address or domain name---only a Tor “hidden service address” that is not actually issued by IANA or any other central authority, and cannot be linked with any location or identity. Incidentally, the Tor anonymity network was created not by rogue hackers but by the US Naval Research Laboratory. More information on how this network operates is available at <http://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en>.

More concerning is that you have mischaracterized Bitcoin, the payment system used at Silk Road, by calling it “an online form of money laundering.” It is possible you were referring only to this service's manner of using Bitcoin, rather than to Bitcoin itself. I hope this is the case, because otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

Bitcoin is a decentralized internet payment system, created in 2009, whose primary feature is that money can be exchanged directly between users without the need for payment processors like PayPal or Popmoney. Bitcoin transactions are mediated not via a central service, but via a distributed network with no single point of failure. This decentralization protects Bitcoin users' financial security and personal privacy. One's “wallet” is stored on one's own computer, rather than on a central server, so fiascos like the recent Epsilon credit card data breach are impossible. Users protect their own privacy instead of delegating that task to a mega-corporation whose interests are often at odds with its users'.

Because Bitcoin is an international network, transactions are not denominated in dollars but rather in “bitcoins,” a new unit of exchange. The value of a bitcoin is not pegged to that of the dollar or any other national currency: it is determined by market forces like the value of any other commodity. Since bitcoins are not issued by a central authority, there is no one to enforce such a peg anyway.

In many ways, Bitcoin is analogous to cash. Like cash, it is absolutely controlled by its holder. Like cash, it can be given and received without fees. Like cash, once spent it is gone---there are no chargebacks or stop-payments. Like cash, its owner is responsible for keeping it secure from thieves. And, like cash, it is difficult to trace. There is no “Bitcoin, Inc.” whose records can be subpoenaed, so tracing bitcoin transactions requires old-fashioned police work.

Because of these features, Bitcoin is now being used for illegal transactions online, just as cash is used for illegal transactions in person. However, demonizing Bitcoin is about as sensible as demonizing cash. Understand that Bitcoin is being used for all sorts of transactions, most of which are quite legitimate. At this very moment there are websites offering clothes, food, web hosting, custom design, market analysis, and real estate, all in exchange for bitcoins. Earlier this weekend I bought a pound of coffee at <http://www.bitbrew.net>. By using bitcoins I've been able to get better prices, since merchants don't have to cover the costs of chargeback fraud or bank fees. The fact that some people also use it for illegal activity only shows that it is an effective and efficient medium of exchange.

Mr. Senator, the fact is that money laundering networks already exist. These networks offer protection only to criminals, while ordinary law-abiding citizens regularly have their identities stolen. Bitcoin, by contrast, extends this offer to everyone. The status quo disrupted by Bitcoin is one in which privacy is the sole privilege of outlaws. If you find that state of affairs desirable, by all means campaign for Bitcoin's destruction.

Respectfully,
Ian Maxwell

Notes:
  • I've avoided calling bitcoin a "currency" since this is likely to lead to poorly-thought out claims of counterfeiting.
  • Likewise, I've avoided any of the smash-the-state rhetoric so common around here. This guy is the state, so I don't imagine he'll be very receptive.
  • Instead I'm using the smash-the-corporate-machine rhetoric that leftists prefer.
  • My central point is that Bitcoin has legal uses and that there are many reasons for a law-abiding citizen to want to use it.

Ian Maxwell
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mewantsbitcoins
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June 06, 2011, 04:01:54 AM
 #32

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.

I don't have a slightest doubt that they are the thing of the past. It's just a matter of time now
I think you are greatly underestimating Bitcoin and it's potential
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June 06, 2011, 04:02:00 AM
 #33

If you like bitcoin and want to see it used worldwide, freeing people from their central banks, then we need to do what we can to push back when illegality is associated with bitcoin.

And when governments world-wide make bitcoin illegal because of the threat it represents to central banking, will your head explode from the irony?
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June 06, 2011, 04:02:45 AM
 #34

I actually agree that drugs should be legal and one should be allowed to ingest anything they please. But what should and shouldn't be has little to do with what IS and ISN'T. Drug trafficking IS illegal in the united states. This rich and powerful man now sees drugs and bitcoins as indivisible and mining and trading bitcoins as a criminal offense. He is actively trying to convince his rich and powerful friends of the same directly because of silk road. Silk road is a thread to the bitcoin network and I personally want to see it exterminated.

How about focusing on exterminating these rich and powerful people?

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.

but if we condone freedom, we are the anteaters...
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June 06, 2011, 04:05:35 AM
 #35

Surrogate currency? how about Surrogate representative for the Wall Street bankers?

Could it be a WS banker finally caught up with Bitcoin and shilted his pant, afterward, Schumer got summoned to a corner office and had a long talk?
mewantsbitcoins
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June 06, 2011, 04:06:51 AM
 #36

Surrogate currency? how about Surrogate representative for the Wall Street bankers?

Could it be a WS banker finally caught up with Bitcoin and shilted his pant, afterward, Schumer got summoned to a corner office and had a long talk?

They have to keep the exchange rate somehow until the funds clear and they can buy some bitcoins   Grin
mjsbuddha
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June 06, 2011, 04:08:05 AM
 #37

Which is more likely, we get rid of them or they get rid of us? If we self police we will have the time to become the new rich and powerful. If we condone illegal activity then we are the bugs, not the exterminators.

I don't have a slightest doubt that they are the thing of the past. It's just a matter of time now
I think you are greatly underestimating Bitcoin and it's potential

Oh I'm not underestimating bitcoin. We need time to realize that potential though. We are in our infancy and still very vulnerable.
marcus_of_augustus
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June 06, 2011, 04:19:33 AM
 #38

I'm not sure how effective polite letters to the good senator are anymore but I applaud your civility and patience. If they worked, we wouldn't be where we are today.

If someone wants to send him a message, it could be along these lines ....

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/043/mtrx-iknow.wav

mewantsbitcoins
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June 06, 2011, 04:22:10 AM
 #39


I'm not sure how effective polite letters to the good senator are anymore. If they worked, we wouldn't be where we are today.

If someone wants to send him a message, it could be along these lines ....

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/043/mtrx-iknow.wav

This should be made our official moto
mjsbuddha
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June 06, 2011, 04:24:43 AM
 #40

Agreed. Letters to your representative are as effective as protests in that they are completely ignorable. Lobbyists are effective because they are physically present, shaking hands. You want him to understand you should speak to him directly.
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