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Author Topic: Senator Charles Schumer Pushes to Shut Down Online Drug Marketplace  (Read 23079 times)
MoonShadow
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June 07, 2011, 08:54:44 PM
 #201

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

Yeah, the co-ops that they put on the phones are particularly good at giving that impression regardless of their true thoughts.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 09:12:12 PM
 #202

Sort of like how they have made government stop marijuana from having widespread use. Right?
Why do you think that comparison makes any sense at all? You don't have to connect to a global open grid on the internet every time you want to use marijuana. If you did it would be ridiculously much easier to scare away the individual users.
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June 07, 2011, 09:13:08 PM
 #203

You should try leading the last sentence in the text he quoted.
Sites like Silk Road are going to make governments stop Bitcoin from getting widespread use, so you have to choose between having sites like this and the success of Bitcoin. It's a simple cause and affect, and saying that he would prefer the success of Bitcoin over the availability of such sites doesn't mean he likes it. In fact he's just said he doesn't like it. You are shooting the messenger.

The nature of bitcoin itself means the choice of who gets to use it is no longer anybodies to make.

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June 07, 2011, 09:21:42 PM
 #204

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

it probably doesn't help matters that there is a service called the Bitcoin Laundry listed on the "who accepts bitcoins" page
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June 07, 2011, 09:35:26 PM
 #205

You don't have to connect to a global open grid on the internet every time you want to use marijuana.
No, instead you have to have a face-to-face meeting with someone who could easily be a cop or an informant, or receive your product through the government-controlled mail service.

As an illegal good, bitcoin would be MUCH safer on a per-user basis than weed. Especially considering the fact that in order to enforce laws against it, state agencies will have to spread themselves even thinner than they are, and that's so thin that they can't even keep heroin out of their own prisons as it is.

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June 07, 2011, 09:38:29 PM
 #206

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

it probably doesn't help matters that there is a service called the Bitcoin Laundry listed on the "who accepts bitcoins" page

Although it should - because the fact that there is a service dedicated to laundering ought to indicate that bitcoin itself does not serve that function. But unfortunately, the old media doesn't think too good. Either that or they are really just as corrupt as the government on which they depend.

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June 07, 2011, 09:39:42 PM
 #207

and that's so thin that they can't even keep heroin out of their own prisons.

Or cell phones.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 10:08:09 PM
 #208

As an illegal good, bitcoin would be MUCH safer on a per-user basis than weed. Especially considering the fact that in order to enforce laws against it, they will have to spread themselves even thinner than they are, and that's so thin that they can't even keep heroin out of their own prisons as it is.
There are a ton of factors involved here. The utility of the goods for the user, availability of alternative legal ways to obtain a similar good, the chance of getting caught, the severity of the punishment... Most drug users will probably rate the utility fairly highly. There is no legal way to obtain something similar, the closest thing is probably alcohol. The chance of getting caught is very low, and if you do the punishment isn't all that severe.

Bitcoin users on the other hand could usually about as easily use paypal or credit cards. The chance of getting caught is unknown. However, seeing how RIAA and MPAA are allowed to just collect IPs and send bills for infringement I have no doubt governments could pass laws that make it illegal to connect to the bitcoin network altogether. Then they can just start collecting IPs and punish a collection of users severely, while letting everybody know how easily they found them. This would scare the average person back to paypal and CC, and make it that much easier to find and punish the remaining hardcore Bitcoin who actually has something to hide and can be bothered to use proxies and stuff like that.
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June 08, 2011, 03:03:42 AM
 #209

I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

I'm just wondering does this include any sort of modification to the client especially such which would give the LEAs special privileges?

Not getting an answer to this question has me a little bit worried.

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June 08, 2011, 03:12:15 AM
 #210

I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

I'm just wondering does this include any sort of modification to the client especially such which would give the LEAs special privileges?

Not getting an answer to this question has me a little bit worried.

Me too. That would be a good way to destroy bitcoin for me. The whole reason I like bitcoin vis a vis the dollar is the lack of special privileges given to anyone, let alone government officials.

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June 08, 2011, 03:12:58 AM
 #211

Just to made it clear - any modification done, just to please US government, will immediately stop any activities with bitcoin chain of any other country citizens, and i am believe US citizens will also stop use that chain. We will watch closely sources, and matching hashes of compiled programs, builded from that sources.  I am confident that already opened sources can provide enough materials to start another chain.

That was a panic message - posted to made things clear on that matter.

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June 08, 2011, 03:17:25 AM
 #212

Governments will interfere with Bitcoin whether we like that or not so keep this in mind we're here to profit from the last person to join while the fun ride is going on.

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June 08, 2011, 03:26:39 AM
 #213

I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people.  The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.

I'm just wondering does this include any sort of modification to the client especially such which would give the LEAs special privileges?

Not getting an answer to this question has me a little bit worried.

What is there to worry about? Audit the code yourself or use old trusted clients until the code has been well audited. I'm sure with the amount of people looking at everything Bitcoin with the intensity of a high powered microscope that should any such modification ever appear, it would be public knowledge before the client is even released.
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June 08, 2011, 03:28:07 AM
 #214

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

it probably doesn't help matters that there is a service called the Bitcoin Laundry listed on the "who accepts bitcoins" page

Although it should - because the fact that there is a service dedicated to laundering ought to indicate that bitcoin itself does not serve that function. But unfortunately, the old media doesn't think too good. Either that or they are really just as corrupt as the government on which they depend.

Bitcoin is not money so you can launder it as much as you like I think .... unless they are officially recognising it as money?

Jumbling up crypto tokens on a website for an on-line game is what exactly?

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June 08, 2011, 03:39:25 AM
 #215

All the news talks about is money laundering..seriously wtf.

it probably doesn't help matters that there is a service called the Bitcoin Laundry listed on the "who accepts bitcoins" page

Although it should - because the fact that there is a service dedicated to laundering ought to indicate that bitcoin itself does not serve that function. But unfortunately, the old media doesn't think too good. Either that or they are really just as corrupt as the government on which they depend.

Bitcoin is not money so you can launder it as much as you like I think .... unless they are officially recognising it as money?

Jumbling up crypto tokens on a website for an on-line game is what exactly?

Sounds like playing world of warcraft to me Wink
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June 08, 2011, 04:25:02 AM
 #216

Voluntary drug use is not a crime. Stealing property from walmart and selling it for bitcoin IS a crime.

The difference is in the creation of a victim.

If I smoke a bowl of weed I know Im incapable of even switching the computer on let alone installing tor to find anything  Smiley
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June 08, 2011, 10:23:24 AM
 #217

I got off of the phone with Senator Jim DeMint's(R SC) DC office, a short while ago.

While I didn't speak to the Senator, I talked to a member of his staff that was: already aware of Bitcoin and how it works, has visited this forum, and was aware of Gavin's coming trip to the CIA. He agreed that this is an interesting technology with market potential.

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

Have the politically-correct co-opted the Forum lately? When will people realize that it doesn't matter what government thinks about a 'crypto math puzzle'.  Nor , does it matter if they like it or support it.  It doesn't even matter if the population likes bitcoin. I don't like US Dollars and the promise-of-a-promise Euro currency, but I still accept them.

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June 08, 2011, 10:39:29 AM
 #218

When will people realize that it doesn't matter what government thinks about a 'crypto math puzzle'.
I guess it only matters if you prefer not having to risk to go to jail.
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June 08, 2011, 10:43:13 AM
 #219

I got off of the phone with Senator Jim DeMint's(R SC) DC office, a short while ago.

While I didn't speak to the Senator, I talked to a member of his staff that was: already aware of Bitcoin and how it works, has visited this forum, and was aware of Gavin's coming trip to the CIA. He agreed that this is an interesting technology with market potential.

The conversation was brief and politic, but my overall impression was a positive one.

Have the politically-correct co-opted the Forum lately? When will people realize that it doesn't matter what government thinks about a 'crypto math puzzle'.  Nor , does it matter if they like it or support it.  It doesn't even matter if the population likes bitcoin. I don't like US Dollars and the promise-of-a-promise Euro currency, but I still accept them.

Politically-correct? What on earth has political correctness got to do with any of this  Huh

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The value of goods, expressed in money, is called “price”, while the value of money, expressed in goods, is called “value”. C. Quigley
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June 08, 2011, 11:03:22 AM
 #220

There are people here who view Bitcoin as nothing more than an opportunity to stick it to the man, for the sheer malice of the act.  The benefits of the system itself are secondary to the damage it could do to the people in power, from their perspective.

This attitude is in its own way as savage as the corruption that has driven so many of us to distrust our own governments.
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