Kano.is v slush was Re: [9000 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff

[dmwardjr]

Still the invalid blocks we keep hitting pisses me off

Try CKPool at kano.is  They are set up to handle many miners with very few orphans/invalid blocks.  Unfortunately, most are into the bells and whistles of Slush Pool.  If you set up an account at CKPool and log in, you will see they have added quite a few "bells and whistles."  You do not see the new added features until you create an account.  Those features are not marketed on the home page though.  If they were to market all of their features, they might have more miners join.

[1715608118]

1715608118

[dmwardjr]

Still the invalid blocks we keep hitting pisses me off

Try CKPool at kano.is  They are set up to handle many miners with very few orphans/invalid blocks.  Unfortunately, most are into the bells and whistles of Slush Pool.  If you set up an account at CKPool and log in, you will see they have added quite a few "bells and whistles."  You do not see the new added features until you create an account.  Those features are not marketed on the home page though.  If they were to market all of their features, they might have more miners join.

That's a rip-off pool! I'd advise anyone not point any hash at it, and there's a good reason why there is barely anyone mining there .... basically, a crap pool. I mined there for over a month non-stop but never reached the so called n-th range to earn the maximum from the hash I had there (despite the range being on average 7 days at the time). Basically, that shitty pool has so many restarts and outages (if not buggy code to boot too) that you can never get paid your max earnings ... not to mention any dust earnings that may be got while ramping up also find their way to pool operator's wallet!
No bells and whistles (that they might have added) can be a substitute for honest code and operators, and they are simply there to lure the gullible with the intention to bamboozle you, whereas the ones on slush have evolved over time ..... backing up what is un-doubtedly a solid, honest pool.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying Slush is dishonest at all.  I've spent most of my time mining here.  However, I've since moved to another pool about 3 days ago.  I'm just tired of the invalid blocks.  Same goes for other pools with excessive invalid blocks.

As for CKPool being a "... shitty pool with so many restarts and outages... dust earnings going to operator's wallet, etc..." I'll pass on that kind of conversation.

Have a good day, Sir.

[dmwardjr]

That kano pool is a shitty pool no doubt, and I do not need anyone to affirm that fact as I have mined there and have empirical results from then.... I am also sure the droves that have abandoned it are testament to that. On the other hand, despite all the crap being lobbed at slush (even during the BIP101 storm), slush keeps growing in hashrate, users, ux, communication et al.

But that anyone has the nerve to come on a slush thread and mention that crap pool in the same breath as (even as an alternative to) slush is utter madness bordering on stupidity. You jumop ship because of an invalid block here and there .... wait till you get one on that crap pool with its puny hash ... that'll teach you a lesson.

I'll avoid the derogatory comments and cursing, sir.  I see why you have the negative feedback.  No class.  

Also, it's a free internet.  I'll speak how I want to speak just as you speak how you want to speak.  However, at least I will do it with class.

Try to have a good day, Sir.

[dmwardjr]

Come off it .... you surely can take some honest feedback! But hey, what does it take to get negative feedback? Want some?

But yes, mention slush in the same breath as those crap pools and stupidity can not be that far from your door, dare I say negative feedback too? (apparently you have class ... keep up the delusion).

You call cursing at people and calling them stupid being "honest feedback?"

I call it, "Classless" and lacking "Tactfulness."

[dmwardjr]

Come off it .... you surely can take some honest feedback! But hey, what does it take to get negative feedback? Want some?

But yes, mention slush in the same breath as those crap pools and stupidity can not be that far from your door, dare I say negative feedback too? (apparently you have class ... keep up the delusion).

You call cursing at people and calling them stupid being "honest feedback?"

I neither called you stupid nor cursed (at) you, but yes, that was honest feedback. It is utter stupidity to mention that pool in the same breath as slush .... no doubt. And yes, you have no class.

Keep showing your true colors with your negative connotations.  Hence, the negative feedback.  You lack class.  Period.

I could accept listening to "honest opinions" if they were delivered tactfully without implications that someone is "stupid" for bringing it up.  Get some class and maybe, just maybe, you'll get some respect along with it.

[dmwardjr]

You got a big mouth (and fat fingers to boot). If you seek honest opinions, you can not then decide how that opinion is delivered or it becomes your opinion. So now I know why you hang on to your "class" thing, you actually have none and crave it. So, get a life!

Just to underline this short exchange, it is foolish, bordering on stupidity (if not total madness) to compare slush with these small pools that on end try to lure miners from slush (I have to say without success ... albeit the gullible dimwits, pun intended).

You need help.  Seriously... Pun intended.

[kano]

...
You jumop ship because of an invalid block here and there .... wait till you get one on that crap pool with its puny hash ... that'll teach you a lesson.

... keep waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ...
1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

[kano]

...
You jumop ship because of an invalid block here and there .... wait till you get one on that crap pool with its puny hash ... that'll teach you a lesson.

... keep waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ...
1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

Still, better payout WITH the orphans at slush, any day, any time. And 1 orphan at kano in a year ...!? What, you mean the 1 orphan that you show to gullible new miners? For the period I mined there (and kept an eye on the pool before trying it out), there were definitely more than one invalid / orphan / whatever to you choose to call them to bamboozle everyone else blocks! So again, hoodwink the un-initiated ... but do that in your thread.
For the rest, be aware that kano pool is as CRAPPY as they come.

1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

[kano]

...
You jumop ship because of an invalid block here and there .... wait till you get one on that crap pool with its puny hash ... that'll teach you a lesson.

... keep waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ...
1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

Still, better payout WITH the orphans at slush, any day, any time. And 1 orphan at kano in a year ...!? What, you mean the 1 orphan that you show to gullible new miners? For the period I mined there (and kept an eye on the pool before trying it out), there were definitely more than one invalid / orphan / whatever to you choose to call them to bamboozle everyone else blocks! So again, hoodwink the un-initiated ... but do that in your thread.
For the rest, be aware that kano pool is as CRAPPY as they come.

1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

1 orphan that you show for the last year ... definitely more invalids that you do not show.
And that is a reflection on the honestly of pool operators .... if you are going to hoodwink people to mine on your pool by hiding invalid blocks from then by removing them from your dashboard, then what trust should be put in you for not withholding any found blocks?

I know for a fact there were more than 1 invalid blocks for the period I mined there, and that was not for a year.

Slush, supported BIP101, hashrate growing, users increasing and better payouts.

Just because I show more information about the blocks at my pool than any other pool - doesn't mean that you not understanding it is an excuse to make up lies.
The pool public block page shows all block information since it started (and has for a while now)

1 orphan in the last year
1 orphan before that

[bitsolutions]

I also know that you keep tweaking your stats page and you have previously removed an invalid block from your stats page that you claimed "was a gamble as the share was not exactly the network diff size" (or something to that effect).

That's due to ckpool attempting a submit block for any shares within 1% of network diff(as a safety in case of rounding errors) they are not orphans and no other pools report them at all, they can be ignored.

[-ck]

Not orphans but invalids ... would that be right? So you'd think that if that was so then it would not affect the reported pool luck (or any other stats on crappy-pool) ... but you'd be wrong if you were refering to that crappy pool! Invalid / orphan - same thing as an orphan is invalid anyway (the reverse is not entirely true, though can be ...)
Bottom line, if you argue they are invalids and not orphans (I disagree), then they should not "plump up" the publicly reported pool luck, if, like you say, they can be ignored.

No, not orphans, not invalids, nothing. Just a share. It's just that ckpool reports near-misses and no other pool does. There was one on the solo pool in the last 24 hours.

[bitsolutions]

Not orphans but invalids ... would that be right? So you'd think that if that was so then it would not affect the reported pool luck (or any other stats on crappy-pool) ... but you'd be wrong if you were refering to that crappy pool! Invalid / orphan - same thing as an orphan is invalid anyway (the reverse is not entirely true, though can be ...)
Bottom line, if you argue they are invalids and not orphans (I disagree), then they should not "plump up" the publicly reported pool luck, if, like you say, they can be ignored.

In any case, and again like I said, even with the invalids on slush, you get a far better payout than the slow cooking heist pools. Actually, slush is virtually fee free .... what with the NMC bonus.

I don't know of any other pool software to report unworthy shares in the same way ckpool does(every share that a miner submits that is below network difficulty is unworthy), it's not a metric that has any affect on pool luck, ckpool simply reports unworthy shares if they are within 1% of network diff. It is not a bug it is simply an intentional reporting quirk ckpool has. I think some other pools report orphans as invalid, but that is different from unworthy.

[bitsolutions]

It is a bug if the said "un-worthy" share is reported as a found block, betters reported pool luck but then removed as invalid (not being a valid block) without detrimenting the reported pool luck that is touted as bait to lure miners from other pools. If the intention was to redefine the pool reporting landscape by counting shares within 1% network diff as blocks to portray better pool luck, then if it is not a bug, it is outright fraud (I am sure crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool owner will wager it's a bug .... needless to say, I think otherwise).

By the way, did I mention that hitting the so called N-th range on slush is far quicker and achievable as opposed to crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool where you can NEVER hit your maximum earnings because of the never ending restarts (and behind the scenes code trickery), to mention but a few? Well, now you know it.

Unworthy shares are not factored into any luck calculations(the same as on any other pool), so I'm not sure what the problem you have is. Ckpool/ckdb are both open source while Slush's pool is not, so not sure where you are getting "behind the scenes code trickery" from.

[bitsolutions]

You'd think they are not factored in, but the do (did) at crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool. But hey, if you did not understand the topic before you jumped in, that is your problem and i have no desire to sort it out for you.
And yes, behind the scenes code trickery does influence miners' inability to hit the max N-th range and thus earn the full potential of their hashing power on crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool. I do not expect you in particualr to know where I got that from, but then again, you are not all that read this thread.

And did I mention the brilliant communication that slush provide on their facebook page? Wonderous, really is!

The code looks fine to me in regards to dropping rejected/unworthy shares from the stats calculation. Ckpool/ckdb is standard PPLNS which is widely deployed across many pools, yes it takes a lot longer to get to full payout per block find on a small pool but it also takes a lot longer to drop off, it evens out in the end.

[kano]

It is a bug if the said "un-worthy" share is reported as a found block, betters reported pool luck but then removed as invalid (not being a valid block) without detrimenting the reported pool luck that is touted as bait to lure miners from other pools. If the intention was to redefine the pool reporting landscape by counting shares within 1% network diff as blocks to portray better pool luck, then if it is not a bug, it is outright fraud (I am sure crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool owner will wager it's a bug .... needless to say, I think otherwise).

By the way, did I mention that hitting the so called N-th range on slush is far quicker and achievable as opposed to crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool where you can NEVER hit your maximum earnings because of the never ending restarts (and behind the scenes code trickery), to mention but a few? Well, now you know it.

Unworthy shares are not factored into any luck calculations(the same as on any other pool), so I'm not sure what the problem you have is. Ckpool/ckdb are both open source while Slush's pool is not, so not sure where you are getting "behind the scenes code trickery" from.

You'd think they are not factored in, but they do (did) at https://kano.is pool. But hey, if you did not understand the topic before you jumped in, that is your problem and i have no desire to sort it out for you.

You are lying. Only found and confirmed blocks are counted as blocks in the statistics ... as it states at the bottom of the blocks page.

Not sure why you feel the need to lie on a public forum about that - but the code is there in git and anyone can read the code I run on the pool and even see the change history about when I added/changed anything.
The only change I make to ckpool itself is the payout address and the 'fee %' as can be seen in every block the pool has found and I've stated when I've changed those addresses, twice so far since the initial addresses.

And yes, behind the scenes code trickery does influence miners' inability to hit the max N-th range and thus earn the full potential of their hashing power on https://kano.is pool. I do not expect you in particualr to know where I got that from, but then again, you are not all that read this thread.
...

You pulled it out of your ass and put your head in there instead
Get anyone who actually isn't a moron to read the code I run on the pool and tell me where this "trickery" is.
It's in the public git, there is no "trickery"

[kano]

...
(I have not mentioned the exhorbitant fee for effect).

0.9% ...

By the way, if you really believe that is the actual (and only) code that https://kano.is pool runs, then you are mistaken. He's on record as stating that as a pool, he has other code he runs that he will not divulge (or something to that effect).
...

Show this record.
ckpool and ckdb are what is in git other than the payout address changes as are seen in all the pool blocks and explained in my pool thread and in the above post.

What changes I make to other software on the server ... so what ... I also have custom shell scripts that deal with all sorts of server side issues.
Yeah I'm a programmer who can manage a server and everything there is to know about it

[bitsolutions]

Evens out in the end.... that's the twaddle deployed to hoodwink time and again but conveniently turned on its head when it comes to pointing out that orphans are not unusual for a large pool. Notwithstanding, for crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool, it never evens out due to the restarts, withholding of dust earnings and behind the scenes code trickery (I have not mentioned the exhorbitant fee for effect).

By the way, if you really believe that is the actual (and only) code that crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool runs, then you are mistaken. He's on record as stating that as a pool, he has other code he runs that he will not divulge (or something to that effect).

And while we are (and were) at it, I see slush has gained another 1-2 Petas in hash - Go slush!

Slush pool has a 2% fee for one which is higher than 0.9%. Anyways I've run ckpool/ckdb in a production environment and it works as expected.

Go back to your failing crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool and wail to whoever would care to listen to your trite, you modern day bandit. And while at it, get yourself some common-sense portion and wake up to the fact that you have been found out!
Stop trying to lure unknowledgeable miners with your false claims of no orphans et al you liar. Your pool has no significant hash because the experienced miners discovered the simple and blatant truth, it's a crappy pool, period.

Most of the hashrate is from large experienced miners.

[bitsolutions]

Whoa! And we still get better payouts at slush than crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool? Now, do you really believe that is the fee structure in effect and then ask how you consistently fail to hit the n-th range for the lifetime of your mining there? You need THAT portion.

I have many miners on Kano's pool and operate an even larger pool(~3PH) based on the ckpool/ckdb code with a few very minor patches and custom webui. Do you know how PPLNS works? Obviously variance is higher on a smaller pool than a larger one.

[bitsolutions]

Well, there you go .... saying they are large miners is relative.
You can safely assume (and I would have thought worked out by now) that I do know whatever it is you are specifically asking is and works, saying that (and this is the argument you threw my way and crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool continually tosses about), variance being higher on a smaller pool "should" not be an issue as "it evens out" in the long run .... supposedly, as it clearly does NOT on the bandit's crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool. And don't forget, higher payouts on slush anyway despite the supposed higher fees .... Are we on the same page here?

Kano pool's long term luck is above 100%, so yes it does even out in the end.

[organofcorti]

<snip>Go back to your failing crappy-slow-cooking-heist pool and wail to whoever would care to listen to your trite, you modern day bandit.</snip>

"Trite" is an adjective not a noun so I don't think you can use the word this way. Can you paraphrase so I can figure out what you meant?