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Question: How long will it be until the Mt Gox US bank accounts are frozen?
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Author Topic: Will Mt. Gox US Bank accounts eventually get frozen?  (Read 11903 times)
gigitrix
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June 07, 2011, 02:31:25 AM
 #21


Are you not jumping to conclusions?  

Isn't Silk Road (not Bitcoin  Huh) the illegal business called for to be shut down?

Given the technologies used, it is unlikely that this is possible. Therefore it is reasonable (but by no means a certainty) to assume that the US government will "lash out", restricting the flow in any way it can. I personally don't think it will come to that but it's very very possible, especially once bitcoins are implicated more publicly in child pornography and the like.
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alkor
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June 07, 2011, 07:38:32 AM
 #22

Are you not jumping to conclusions?  

Isn't Silk Road (not Bitcoin  Huh) the illegal business called for to be shut down?  
I think it is quite obvious that they are using Silk Road as an excuse to go after Bitcoin. The real target here is Bitcoin, and not Silk Road.
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June 07, 2011, 08:23:05 AM
 #23

Here's a possible scenario:

  • Mt.Gox US bank account frozen.
  • Rush of people to get out any way they can; like say: buying bitcoins, moving them to a new exchange and converting back to dollars there
  • That would require a willing buyer of dollars.  If I were wealthy, I might judge that the chance of the bank account eventually becoming unfrozen was 50:50.  So I offer 49 cents on the dollar to sell bitcoins to those desperate souls.
  • Their money is unlocked (since the bitcoin accounts cannot be frozen), and I have an investment.

Choose your figures to taste.

The market always provides a solution when it's free to trade; and Bitcoins make it impossible to stop trade.

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June 07, 2011, 08:24:21 AM
 #24

Bitcoin is the target. One obvious hint is that it hasn't been mentioned by name in Schumer's pressers. It is referred to as a means of laudering money (ie the demonic other).

This is a race. Either the bitcoin community realizes that the PR race is real (where bitcoin is quickly falling behind) and gets its act together, or bitcoin will be marginalized and crushed (via technical attacks to the network, if necessary), along with other similar technologies.

The community would be well advised to understand that bitcoin can still easily lose this race.

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June 07, 2011, 10:00:25 AM
 #25

Are we there already?:



"... and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark ... "



Its a quote from a famous book.  Don't think its talking about the German Deutch mark   ?



Or have we already been there all along?



Is Bitcoin a threat to freedom of commerce medium, or is it providing wider medium choice?
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June 08, 2011, 05:03:44 PM
 #26

as i pointed out, the analyst using the name 'computerscientist' pointed this out a long time ago and suggested a significant risk even for individuals using money to transfer to an unregistered 'financial exchange' that law-enforcement agencies implicate in money-laundering efforts:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1090435/?start=192

Quote
Speaking generally, though, individual users of these exchanges risk having their assets and accounts frozen, risk running afoul of money-laundering laws, and generally risk losing even more than they put into the system.

this panned out when i asked financial colleagues who were concerned about the matter, and i posted that concern here but was roundly criticised for doing so. i still think it's a concern, and it's one of the reasons i haven't sold my pile of bitcoins from early mining at these prices. (the others are mostly ethical.)
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June 08, 2011, 05:22:56 PM
 #27

Hell, MtGox could just start issuing Visa debit cards. Only have BTC in your account? Using the card causes an immediate sell order on the backend, and your merchant gets USD or whatever.

they're working on it...
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June 08, 2011, 08:23:47 PM
 #28

Growing pains. That's all. Can't stop a peer-to-peer service.

--

Chicago Tribune today:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-financial-bitcoitre7573t3-20110608,0,6328122.story
One user described this process as simply "growing pains" and asserted that the government "can't stop a peer-to-peer service."

--

Sweet, I made the paper Wink

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June 09, 2011, 12:30:37 AM
 #29

Can't even paypal be used for laundering?  If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit?  Should paypal be banned if it enables people to buy drugs anonymously?  Or should paypal credit laundering be banned?

How is there a connection between Sam and John on paypal?  If Sam paid socks - and it's proxy delivered to John how does paypal know about the connection between Sam and John?  If John pays for a Skype number's credit and hand the password to Silk Road and Silk Road delivers drugs to Sam, how does paypal know about the connection between Silk Road and Sam?

Isn't the problem with laundering bitcoins, and not with bitcoins?
Have you written a single sentence on this forum that did not end in a question mark?

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June 09, 2011, 03:10:25 AM
 #30

Here's a possible scenario:

  • Mt.Gox US bank account frozen.
  • Rush of people to get out any way they can; like say: buying bitcoins, moving them to a new exchange and converting back to dollars there
  • That would require a willing buyer of dollars.  If I were wealthy, I might judge that the chance of the bank account eventually becoming unfrozen was 50:50.  So I offer 49 cents on the dollar to sell bitcoins to those desperate souls.
  • Their money is unlocked (since the bitcoin accounts cannot be frozen), and I have an investment.

Choose your figures to taste.

The market always provides a solution when it's free to trade; and Bitcoins make it impossible to stop trade.


Wouldn't that be ironic...that a crackdown on bitcoin by governments actually stimulated bartering in bitcoin.

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June 09, 2011, 01:33:46 PM
 #31

I thought MtGox is now located in Japan.

Do they have an US account?



MtGox seems to be located in France. I just sent EUR to MtGox and the bank account information they gave me for that purpose refers to a French Bank account:

Bank details:
 Account Owner: MACARAJA SAS
 Bank Name: CIC
 BIC: CMCIFRPP
 IBAN: FR76 3006 6109 7100 0200 1720 142
 Address: 9 avenue Pierre Sangnier / 94350 Villiers sur marne / France
bitdragon
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June 09, 2011, 01:44:12 PM
 #32

I thought MtGox is now located in Japan.

Do they have an US account?



MtGox seems to be located in France. I just sent EUR to MtGox and the bank account information they gave me for that purpose refers to a French Bank account:

Bank details:
 Account Owner: MACARAJA SAS
 Bank Name: CIC
 BIC: CMCIFRPP
 IBAN: FR76 3006 6109 7100 0200 1720 142
 Address: 9 avenue Pierre Sangnier / 94350 Villiers sur marne / France

That account is only for Euro deposits and these deposits do seem indeed to be handled in France. But Mtgox is managed in Japan.

Quote
Wouldn't that be ironic...that a crackdown on bitcoin by governments actually stimulated bartering in bitcoin.

That is the wonders of censoring something. Over the last years, my stance on censoring has greatly changed. The more the cabal tries to crack down on something, the more and greater the innovation. They are doomed no matter what, and we get some bumps on the road.

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June 09, 2011, 02:59:39 PM
 #33

i think the market needs a lot more competitors. right now, if mtgox loses its ability to pay in us dollars, it would suffer a lot. in turn, the whole market suffers a lot. so mtgox needs more withdrawal options and the market as a whole needs more mtgoxes.
if you havent, take a look at tradehill (link in signature). i think it might be a very good alternative with its many payout options and lower fees. of cause, two exchanges still wont cut it, put its certainly better than just one.

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June 10, 2011, 09:26:43 AM
 #34

as i pointed out, the analyst using the name 'computerscientist' pointed this out a long time ago and suggested a significant risk even for individuals using money to transfer to an unregistered 'financial exchange' that law-enforcement agencies implicate in money-laundering efforts:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1090435/?start=192

Quote
Speaking generally, though, individual users of these exchanges risk having their assets and accounts frozen, risk running afoul of money-laundering laws, and generally risk losing even more than they put into the system.

this panned out when i asked financial colleagues who were concerned about the matter, and i posted that concern here but was roundly criticised for doing so. i still think it's a concern, and it's one of the reasons i haven't sold my pile of bitcoins from early mining at these prices. (the others are mostly ethical.)

Thx for the link Unk.  That certainly helped to illuminate some of the potential legal problems that I was unaware of.  I would certainly suggest others reed the post for further information.  It was my impression that Mtgox was doing its due diligence to try to comply with the law but if computerscientist claims are true will they ever be able to satisfactorily comply with U.S. and/or regional laws?  Does anyone have any more info/links in layman's language from reputable sources on potential legal statutes that would help define a legal exchange as it relates to bitcoin?
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June 10, 2011, 10:24:11 AM
 #35

Growing pains. That's all. Can't stop a peer-to-peer service.

--

Chicago Tribune today:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-financial-bitcoitre7573t3-20110608,0,6328122.story
One user described this process as simply "growing pains" and asserted that the government "can't stop a peer-to-peer service."

--

Sweet, I made the paper Wink



lol, awesome dude!
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