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Poll
Question: How long will it be until the Mt Gox US bank accounts are frozen?
< 1 month
1-3 months
3-6 months
6-12 months
1-3 years
never

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Author Topic: Will Mt. Gox US Bank accounts eventually get frozen?  (Read 9503 times)
Steve
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June 06, 2011, 06:42:13 AM
 #1

I'm not meaning to spread any fear about mtgox, I love the service...but this has to be on peoples' minds (especially considering Schumer's presser).

On this note, I'd like to once again mention the need for a new kind of decentralized p2p exchange using a ripplepay type of system for settlement.  I see several components to such a system:

- order listing and announcement ...orders with the required collateral (bitcoins or ripple-debt contracts) are placed with trusted third parties and order book information made available to the public
- order matching engines (people collect orders they hear about and match them to other orders...exchanging ripple-debt for bitcoins in the process and providing trade data to the public ...these matching engines would need to not only match orders, but match only orders where there is a path with sufficient credit connecting the buyer and seller through the ripple-debt network)
- ripple-debt super nodes ...this are nodes in the ripple trust network that have many trust relationships...these nodes can optionally choose to accept deposits of various currencies in exchange for ripple credit
- settlement of ripple credit ...to periodically rebalance credit in the system, people would pay some form of currency to settle their ripple debts (in cases where they had not pre-paid)

If there were open source implementations of these various components of the system that made it trivial for anyone to operate any component of this system, I think bitcoin trading would be much less vulnerable than it is today.

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malditonuke
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June 06, 2011, 06:56:38 AM
 #2

where is the "> 3 years" option?   Wink
Steve
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June 06, 2011, 07:03:26 AM
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I figured it would either be within 3 years or never.  Wink

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June 06, 2011, 07:06:20 AM
 #4

If they do just leave the damn country, and change currencies before you go lol

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FreeMoney
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June 06, 2011, 07:10:13 AM
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If they do just leave the damn country, and change currencies before you go lol

To what? Already using Bitcoin  Cool

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June 06, 2011, 07:17:53 AM
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I'm a idiot! In other news we shouldn't be talking about Mt gox and freezing especially since I got a grand pending  Grin

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June 06, 2011, 07:25:30 AM
 #7

I thought MtGox is now located in Japan.

Do they have an US account?


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June 06, 2011, 07:27:43 AM
 #8

Mt. Gox isn't going to get closed by the US government. At most if for some outlandish reason, transfers to and from Dwolla and bank accounts gets spanked, then this will be like poker websites, Suprnova.org, Napster, and the myriad of other examples where killing a centralized, popular "agent" of technology just increases the number of users drastically and creates 10 other entities that replace it.

Or transfers will just get slightly more annoying, such as there being another entity of some sort between Mt. Gox and people's bank accounts.

By the way, this is a US-centric discussion and Bitcoin is pretty darn diverse.

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June 06, 2011, 07:28:29 AM
 #9

Mt. Gox isn't going to get closed by the US government. At most if for some outlandish reason, transfers to and from Dwolla and bank accounts gets spanked, then this will be like poker websites, Suprnova.org, Napster, and the myriad of other examples where killing a centralized, popular "agent" of technology just increases the number of users drastically and creates 10 other entities that replace it.

Or transfers will just get slightly more annoying, such as there being another entity of some sort between Mt. Gox and people's bank accounts.

By the way, this is a US-centric discussion and Bitcoin is pretty darn diverse.

+1

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Always do your own due diligence & consult your financial advisor. Never invest unless you can afford to lose your entire investment.

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June 06, 2011, 07:33:22 AM
 #10

Search for the anonymous exchange thats in the works...
Steve
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June 06, 2011, 07:34:05 AM
 #11

Mt. Gox isn't going to get closed by the US government. At most if for some outlandish reason, transfers to and from Dwolla and bank accounts gets spanked, then this will be like poker websites, Suprnova.org, Napster, and the myriad of other examples where killing a centralized, popular "agent" of technology just increases the number of users drastically and creates 10 other entities that replace it.

Or transfers will just get slightly more annoying, such as there being another entity of some sort between Mt. Gox and people's bank accounts.

By the way, this is a US-centric discussion and Bitcoin is pretty darn diverse.

Just to clarify...the poll is specifically about their US based bank account(s).  They have other banks accounts from what I understand.  Also, I do believe their servers are located in TX at the moment.  I think you are correct that such a problem would quickly get routed around (there are already other fully operational exchanges and mtgox itself is pretty international and I'm sure could adapt if something like this occurs).

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June 06, 2011, 05:52:17 PM
 #12

Mt. Gox isn't going to get closed by the US government. At most if for some outlandish reason, transfers to and from Dwolla and bank accounts gets spanked, then this will be like poker websites, Suprnova.org, Napster, and the myriad of other examples where killing a centralized, popular "agent" of technology just increases the number of users drastically and creates 10 other entities that replace it.

Or transfers will just get slightly more annoying, such as there being another entity of some sort between Mt. Gox and people's bank accounts.

By the way, this is a US-centric discussion and Bitcoin is pretty darn diverse.

um, the poker sites have effectively been defeated in the US.

It has been a slow death but since UIGEA in 2006 the US Gov't has gone after one payment processor after another until there were no options left.  10 more didn't replace Neteller when it left, or Click2Pay, or ePassporte, etc etc etc

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June 06, 2011, 06:00:58 PM
 #13

Shouldn't MtGox be fine as long as it complies with AML and KYC regulations for US customers?  AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know your customer) is not airlines chicken fast food outlets, b.t.w.  Smiley  Isn't it regulations that stemmed from the Patriot Act following 9/11?

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion and/or musings and/or hypothesisses.  On a non-authoritative, peer-to-peer public forum, you do not need permission from Cloud9 to derive your own conclusions or opinions, so please do.  Calculations and assumptions to be verified.
cypherdoc
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June 06, 2011, 06:11:35 PM
 #14

try Ubitex
alkor
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June 06, 2011, 06:14:16 PM
 #15

With two US senators alerting the Department of Justice about the situation with Silk Road, I think we will see bank accounts frozen relatively soon a la wikileaks.

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June 06, 2011, 06:16:03 PM
 #16

Mt. Gox isn't going to get closed by the US government. At most if for some outlandish reason, transfers to and from Dwolla and bank accounts gets spanked, then this will be like poker websites

yes, there's so many poker websites currently functional for US customers. No funds frozen or anything.

also, unlike poker, the US isn't the only country that will likely fight back against what they see as a money-laundering scheme. I would expect that before too long (within a year) there will be some exchanges effectively shut down and possibly some other ones that just take the money and disappear into cyberspace.

Growing pains. That's all. Can't stop a peer-to-peer service.
cloud9
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June 06, 2011, 06:20:45 PM
 #17

I'm not meaning to spread any fear about mtgox, I love the service...but this has to be on peoples' minds (especially considering Schumer's presser).

Are you not jumping to conclusions?  

Isn't Silk Road (not Bitcoin  Huh) the illegal business called for to be shut down?  Is a person not within his rights when he trades freely for a pair of cryptographic keys of which one is publicly recognizable? Is money (cash) laundering or another medium of exchange laundering (bitcoins) not a willful act?  Is Bitcoin laundering part of the standard system / bitcoin client?  Or do you need to be willfully laundering Bitcoins?  Wouldn't it do Bitcoin's reputation good if authorities can get to Silk Road using the Bitcoin blockchain in their investigation?  Just one misstep somewhere?  Will it not be an easier investigation than tracking conventional cash transactions? If investigators ask questions, will you not be required to just prove where you got your Bitcoins from?  If you did not get them from bitcoin laundering, and you bought/trade them for legitimate goods/services/other and can prove it, are you not on the right side of the law? Wouldn't you just begin your investigation at sites like this http://bitcoinlaundry.com/ (and connect the dots) ?

Quote
Two US senators are asking federal authorities to crack down on an online narcotics market that accepts 'virtual' currency.

The 'Dark Web', an anonymous and secretive online community that trades in heroin, cocaine and methamphetamines among other drugs, has been operating unhindered for months.

The two senators have written to the US Justice Department and Drug Enforcement Administration asking them to shut down and investigate the site.

Al Jazeera's John Terrett reports.

source:  

Bitcoin just appeared on Al Jazeera:
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/americas/2011/06/20116655012909169.html

Quote
Two US senators are asking federal authorities to crack down on an online narcotics market that accepts 'virtual' currency.

The 'Dark Web', an anonymous and secretive online community that trades in heroin, cocaine and methamphetamines among other drugs, has been operating unhindered for months.

The two senators have written to the US Justice Department and Drug Enforcement Administration asking them to shut down and investigate the site.

Al Jazeera's John Terrett reports.

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion and/or musings and/or hypothesisses.  On a non-authoritative, peer-to-peer public forum, you do not need permission from Cloud9 to derive your own conclusions or opinions, so please do.  Calculations and assumptions to be verified.
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June 06, 2011, 06:54:04 PM
 #18

I think anyone operating an exchange, especially with their real names on the line, is much braver than I am. As far as Mt Gox goes, given how seriously they seem to be taking their business and expansion, I can't imagine they haven't considered their options in case of government interference.
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June 06, 2011, 08:41:32 PM
 #19

Can't even paypal be used for laundering?  If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit?  Should paypal be banned if it enables people to buy drugs anonymously?  Or should paypal credit laundering be banned?

How is there a connection between Sam and John on paypal?  If Sam paid socks - and it's proxy delivered to John how does paypal know about the connection between Sam and John?  If John pays for a Skype number's credit and hand the password to Silk Road and Silk Road delivers drugs to Sam, how does paypal know about the connection between Silk Road and Sam?

Isn't the problem with laundering bitcoins, and not with bitcoins?

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion and/or musings and/or hypothesisses.  On a non-authoritative, peer-to-peer public forum, you do not need permission from Cloud9 to derive your own conclusions or opinions, so please do.  Calculations and assumptions to be verified.
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June 07, 2011, 01:53:08 AM
 #20

Hell, MtGox could just start issuing Visa debit cards. Only have BTC in your account? Using the card causes an immediate sell order on the backend, and your merchant gets USD or whatever.

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