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Author Topic: How much would you trust trezor?  (Read 10126 times)
John (John K.)
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November 21, 2015, 09:05:31 PM
 #1

Just something I've been thinking lately - I hold a sizeable sum in a trezor that I bought lately (after I did some review of the code and the protocols used), but I'm wondering about how much others would trust a trezor personally. I used to use Offline Armory exclusively but it's taking a toll on my SSD's by running a full client on my online computer.

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November 21, 2015, 09:40:28 PM
 #2

i've been doing some research on that hardware wallet and the reviews and trust seems to be pretty good towards that product.
if ever i do get a good amount of BTC,i do plan on buying one. But long term,possibly something better might come out?
General consensus seems to be that the best way to completely feel safe with bitcoin is with a paper wallet though.

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November 21, 2015, 09:43:34 PM
 #3

i like to run a trap wallet on my desktop and use simply my computer, stealing that few cent of bitcoin, will immediately put me on the fence and proceed to wipe out the disk, never happened for now, so my computer is safe

for now i only trust my usb and my ssd, i don't use anything expensive like trezor, and i'm not going to use it in the future
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November 21, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
 #4

i like to run a trap wallet on my desktop and use simply my computer, stealing that few cent of bitcoin, will immediately put me on the fence and proceed to wipe out the disk, never happened for now, so my computer is safe

for now i only trust my usb and my ssd, i don't use anything expensive like trezor, and i'm not going to use it in the future

What if the attacker gets to both of your trap wallet and the actual wallet itself before doing any transactions?

i've been doing some research on that hardware wallet and the reviews and trust seems to be pretty good towards that product.
if ever i do get a good amount of BTC,i do plan on buying one. But long term,possibly something better might come out?
General consensus seems to be that the best way to completely feel safe with bitcoin is with a paper wallet though.
Yeah, nothing beats a properly generated (with truly random RNG's from casino dice or something similar) paper wallet. The only problem is that for each new transaction you'll have to use a fresh paper wallet, which was what steered me towards Armory's Offline wallet system.

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November 21, 2015, 09:49:55 PM
 #5

I like the idea of a trezor, I just wouldn't use it since there is the risk that SatoshiLabs could somehow steal my Bitcoin with backdoors in software or hardware. I would rather roll my own and make something Trezor-like, something where I control most things in it. This would include hardware interaction and the software used on the device. Maybe a modified Raspberry Pi could work?
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November 21, 2015, 09:52:56 PM
 #6

I like the idea of a trezor, I just wouldn't use it since there is the risk that SatoshiLabs could somehow steal my Bitcoin with backdoors in software or hardware. I would rather roll my own and make something Trezor-like, something where I control most things in it. This would include hardware interaction and the software used on the device. Maybe a modified Raspberry Pi could work?
There is one that is available. I did a search for wallets and see one called the Pi wallet. From the looks of it. It looks exactly like a Raspberry Pi expect for a male usb connector sticking out of it. That could be the replacement for these hardware wallets that you are looking for and you would need to keep your coins secure, since you would have full control of configuration of this device.

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November 21, 2015, 09:57:33 PM
 #7

in my opinion trezor is safer than keeping coins on coinbase. and slightly safer than just running bitcoin core..
but it is not 100% fool proof, and the device itself does require some trust.

afterall the device has to communicate with the trezor servers, which means:
hackers can make a clone website, replace the web browser extension or phish the data..

this can be done by a man in the middle attack where someone displays to a user that their trezor is malfunctioning and requires the user to type in their seed to reset the device.

so it is not 100% fool proof. but atleast better than current alternatives. lets hope the next gen of hardware wallets become even better

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November 21, 2015, 09:57:36 PM
 #8

I wouldn't trust it that much to store larger sums of money.
I don't even trust myself Tongue not talking about some company.
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November 21, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
 #9

I trust a clean offline computer (that I've built with my 'hands") more then any other device like trezor.

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November 21, 2015, 10:04:36 PM
 #10

I have two wallets, main one that i almost never use, and a "hot" one. If i really need funds i transfer x amount to hot wallet.
Hot wallet has theoretical chance to be compromised, but real one doesn't, because it's on another HDD that's disconnected all the time and has it's own OS.
When i want to transfer coins, i disconnect all other drives , place "real one", with own OS,send coins and disconnect it again.

There's no chance in getting main HDD compromised, as it only has OS and bitcoin client on it, nothing else. Roll Eyes
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November 22, 2015, 12:06:28 AM
 #11

I don't trust any wallet except Bitcoin Core. I don't feel safe when I use 3rd party apps, even they claim they are safe. I'm sure your Bitcoin worth is much more than me, you might think different about security.
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November 22, 2015, 03:03:33 AM
 #12

I was on the fence about it until a client of ours met up with me to sell some coins. After seeing how easy it was to use, and how much more secure it is than using a local wallet on phone, I will be purchasing a few for myself and team members.

Never used my phone to hold any significant amount of coins, because of obvious risks, so the Trezor is a good alternative to carrying around a laptop all day Tongue
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November 22, 2015, 03:41:30 AM
 #13

I would not trust in Trezor at all. It is ssd and can be defective and fail. Why trust in something with all my value of bitcoin on a hd anyways  Roll Eyes




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November 22, 2015, 03:45:42 AM
 #14

Just something I've been thinking lately - I hold a sizeable sum in a trezor that I bought lately (after I did some review of the code and the protocols used), but I'm wondering about how much others would trust a trezor personally. I used to use Offline Armory exclusively but it's taking a toll on my SSD's by running a full client on my online computer.

That is a very valid concern which I also share
I also keep a significant amount of btcs in a trezor and despite feeling it should be trustworthy enough, I'll still transfer part of it to another hardware wallet once I find one I feel is as good or better than trezor

suggestions are welcome
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November 22, 2015, 03:50:12 AM
 #15

although trezor or the idea of it is amazing but unfortunately its like the wild west out here lol - cant trust anything 100%



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November 22, 2015, 06:19:33 AM
 #16

IMO all hardware wallets are much too new and untested for it to be a good idea to store large amount of bitcoin on them.

Users with a more of an advanced understanding of Bitcoin should be able to audit any address they are told to send to based on the seed, as well as any change address it will send to as part of a transaction. Although the trezor seems to be marketed more towards more novice users. (they can audit based on the seed which can be used to calculate the xpubkey).

The risk with the trezor is that it is really not known how resilient to attacks it will be in the event that an attacker were to come into physical possession of the trezor. I believe that some security researchers have been able to detect radio waves from a trezor without inputting valid credentials, which could, at least in theory, lead to the private keys the trezor is suppose to be keeping private.

Another, probably more realistic risk for most users is that (AFAIK), even with the seed, you need to use a trezor in order to spend any BTC that is stored on the trezor. This means that if their trezor were to malfunction or break, that the user would need to wait until they can purchase a new trezor, and until it arrives to be able to spend the BTC they are trusting it with, and this is assuming they make proper backups of their seed.

I would personally suggest using electrum for both your cold and hot wallets (at least for your hot wallet on your computer). It takes up very little resources, is deterministic, and has all the same features that armory has. Also you will have greater control over when your private keys will potentially be vulnerable -- if you are using full disk encryption and a strong passphrase for both the wallet file and to decrypt your harddrive, then your private keys will be minimally vulnerable while your computer is "on" and will be fully exposes for the few seconds (if that) that your private key is in ram; if you are not sure that you will be able to fully power off your computer after decrypting your wallet, then you simply should not decrypt your wallet to sign a tx. Plus I believe it is possible to calculate the private keys based on the seed in the event that you do not have access to a copy of electrum.
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November 22, 2015, 07:08:24 AM
 #17

Another solution - print out private keys on paper or engrave them into a durable metal possession and store in a safe or bury under the ground and have them in multiple locations.

Depending upon your risk you can split the key into parts and store them separately or you can store multiple copies in different locations.

I'm very wary when it comes to hardware wallets.

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November 22, 2015, 07:31:38 AM
 #18

For the paranoid, they may be interested to know the conditions under which these devices are manufactured. Even though the hardware is supposed to be open-source, most of us don’t have the capacity to examine it, so we still have to trust Satoshi Labs who designed it and the manufacturer that it chooses to work with. I contacted Satoshi Labs customer support and was told that the devices were made In Czech Republic, where Satoshi Labs was based. In the email, I was told that: “All components are stored in a restricted access area watched by cameras 24/7…Only chosen employees can get into the area. The plastic casing parts are joined with an ultrasound that melts the material together so it’s impossible to replace the internals without a notable damage to it.”
make sure you believe in trezor,here http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericxlmu/2014/10/15/meet-trezor-a-bitcoin-safe-that-can-fit-into-your-pocket/
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November 22, 2015, 07:34:14 AM
 #19

Another, probably more realistic risk for most users is that (AFAIK), even with the seed, you need to use a trezor in order to spend any BTC that is stored on the trezor. This means that if their trezor were to malfunction or break, that the user would need to wait until they can purchase a new trezor, and until it arrives to be able to spend the BTC they are trusting it with, and this is assuming they make proper backups of their seed.

You do not have to wait for a new Trezor, the Trezor seed can be used on Electrum to recover the wallet. So you will be able to access your wallet and move the bitcoins to an alternative wallet should you lose your Trezor.
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November 22, 2015, 07:36:13 AM
 #20

Another solution - print out private keys on paper or engrave them into a durable metal possession and store in a safe or bury under the ground and have them in multiple locations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1013586.0

Paper wallets are generally going to be less secure then an encrypted wallet. You would most likely be better off doing whatever you would do to protect your paper wallet, but omit the step that puts your private keys on paper and instead keep them encrypted on a hard drive. 
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