Turkey shoots down russian military plane on Syria border

[Ankara]

You are aware that USA is the ally of Turkey, right?

[pungopete468]

No offense taken.

It's not that crazy to say the Armenians had options, I'm talking about individual choices which could lead to individual survival. Not the option of stopping the genocide occurring, but surviving it. That goes out the window with nuclear war...

I don't believe it's ever warranted to kill somebody when they have clean hands and aren't an immediate threat towards another person. My point is, how many children would be killed? Of all the artists, lovers, teachers, doctors, how many of them are genuinely good people? Collateral damage is never justified, it's a crime unto itself.

Those responsible are marked and stained, the rest are victims too...

[iCEBREAKER]

A nuclear strike would be completely wrong. There's no way Russia will nuke Turkey for this, not going to happen.

Nuclear war is genocide, and it's never going to be justified.

Eh, a nuke or two would likely kill far fewer turks than the 1.5 million Armenians the turks killed. The turks might claim "genocide" after losing a couple of cities and 200,000 or so people, but the world will laugh at the irony.

Probably won't happen though. But it's fun to imagine.

The strategy of twisting their genocidal arms with their denied history is a fun one too.

To paraphrase Team America:

I like Putin. Putin has balls. I like balls.

The difference is this case is the opportunity to survive, the Armenians didn't deserve to be massacred, but individually they had options which wouldn't be available in a nuclear strike... A nuclear attack is like genocide on steroids, served with a side of torture for dessert...

Nukes target civilian populations, civilian populations are targeted to destroy their ability to sustain a war effort. For what rational purpose would Russia feel compelled to take that course of action against a country like Turkey? It's simply unwarranted...

Japan was nuked twice.  Still plenty of Japanese people and culture, but no more Rapes of Nanking and Unit 731s.

There's nothing magical about non-conventional weapons.  Only the peaceniks fetishize them and indulge in 'zomg nuclear winter' junk science.

Russia isn't going to nuke Turkey, because of NATO.  Saudi Arabia is not a member, so the Holy Cities are fair game...noting would send the message that the Koran is a myth better than Tsar Bomba paying a visit to Mecca.  

[Balthazar]

The area where this incident happened is far from daesh territory, there isn't even al-nusra close to that area.

Nice try. I'm amused to see how quickly did you forget that syrian-turkish border is used by the various terrorist groups as a kind of magic portal. By the way, it's time to adjust your propaganda since Russian side never claimed that IS is the only target. On the contrary, they've claimed that any terrorist group is a valid target for their airstrikes. And the definition of terrorist group is quite simple, it's the refusal to collaborate.

I'm surprised the FSB agents posting here didn't get the new memo...

I suggest you to look under the bed with a flashlight before going to sleep. Just in case if FSB agent is hiding there.

By the way, specially for ignorant people I have to clarify that FSB has nothing to do with intelligence operations outside the country. Its permissions are strictly limited with interior affairs, so It's just an analogue to Federal Bureau of Investigation... It's simple as the piece of cake. Now you're free to continue posting your ignorant cliches.

[galdur]

You are aware that USA is the ally of Turkey, right?

That probably has its limits. I seriously doubt that the U.S. is going to start world war three over the disruptions of relations and business dealings of Turkey with some terrorists in the Middle East.

[pungopete468]

Japan was nuked, this is true. The face of war was changed forever as a result...

The problem lies in the purpose, and in the consequences...

Nuking Japan ended WW2, they could have hit Tokyo, but they didn't... They wanted to end the war, not destroy the enemy...

[Vika NSFW]

You are aware that USA is the ally of Turkey, right?

I'm happy about the situation, where is so clear, who still play the shit soap opera of "Democracy export".
USA have firmed the pact to evade clashes, and seems they declared to hear about shooting the bomber and not stop it.
ISIS have no aviation.
This is called - a crime action of Turkey and USA against Russian Federation.

This will be forgiven newer.

[galdur]

Turkey, a NATO country,  has not sealed its border with Syria. Most of the 15-20,000 wannabe terrorists that have gone from Europe to join ISIS in Iraq/Syria have gone through Turkey. There have been staging points in Turkey, weapons depots and training. Even the western mainstream media admits this, the politicians avoid mentioning it of course.

[galdur]

In the wake of the murderous attacks in Paris, we can expect western heads of state to do what they always do in such circumstances: declare total and unremitting war on those who brought it about. They don’t actually mean it. They’ve had the means to uproot and destroy Islamic State within their hands for over a year now. They’ve simply refused to make use of it. In fact, as the world watched leaders making statements of implacable resolve at the G20 summit in Antalaya, these same leaders are hobnobbing with Turkey’s president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, a man whose tacit political, economic, and even military support contributed to Isis’s ability to perpetrate the atrocities in Paris, not to mention an endless stream of atrocities inside the Middle East. ....

Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it?

David Graeber

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis

[Vika NSFW]

There have been staging points in Turkey,

How do You permit to call "Democracy export" to Syria as terrorism?
Are You a Asad supporter?
Alhamdulillah!
I Find You, dirty Asad supporter, bloody friend of Dictator Putin.
Let Obama play the Jew plan to kill muslims one with other.

[faince222]

What will happen? I don't think that there will be an occasion for the next world war. Putin has told that there will not be a war

[galdur]

Turkey has spent years allowing jihadist groups to flourish - so beware its real reasons for shooting down a Russian plane

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As Erdogan gets desperate, he will attempt to bring focus back to Assad

Ranj Alaaldin @RanjAlaaldin 11 hours  ago

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Four years on, Assad looks set to hold onto power and his regime will be a central part of a transition plan, one that foreign powers were negotiating last weekend. Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan. Years of support for, and investment in, Islamic fundamentalist groups like Jabhat al-Nusra (Al-Qaeda’s affiliate in Syria) and Ahrar al-Sham are about to go to waste. Ankara has played a significant role in allowing Isis and other jihadists to flourish in Syria and the region. Turkey has acquiesced to jihadist groups entering Syria via Turkey as well as their use of Turkey as a transit point for smuggling arms and funds into Syria. ....more

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/turkey-has-spent-years-allowing-jihadist-groups-to-flourish-so-beware-its-real-reasons-for-shooting-a6747161.html

[Vika NSFW]

hardline Islamist groups

Menthal masturbation and multicultural liberal press termin for "salafi" or what?

[catch.me.if.you.can]

[mearylll]

Hi

Turkey is playing a very dangerous game. They seem to think they can support ISIS as well as threaten Europe with sending them mass migrants if they don't get their own way. The country is slowly becoming more hardline and the process of islamisation and they are surely making mistakes. I really think their strategy is going to backfire.

In terms of what Putin will do to this it is difficult to say, but surely he will be clamp down on ISIS more to show Russian citizens he is a strongman.

Hopefully this does not escalate as we really do not want to see more destruction and rivalries develop in this already unsafe region of the world.

Thanks

[Starin]

The difference is this case is the opportunity to survive, the Armenians didn't deserve to be massacred, but individually they had options which wouldn't be available in a nuclear strike... A nuclear attack is like genocide on steroids, served with a side of torture for dessert...

Nukes target civilian populations, civilian populations are targeted to destroy their ability to sustain a war effort. For what rational purpose would Russia feel compelled to take that course of action against a country like Turkey? It's simply unwarranted...

No offense, but it's crazy to say the Armenians had options.

It probably would be irrational for Russia to nuke the turks. There are better ways to fuck the turkish animals and maybe earn some profit on the side. But I disagree that it's unwarranted. It's warranted. It's justifiable. And the turks totally deserve it.

But don't worry turks, I'm sure if Putin tries to nuke you your all-Ackbary Allah can stop a nuke. Fucking morons.

Omg. I am surpsied you can actually use the internet. You are an complete idiot. Simply put racists are stupid.

[catch.me.if.you.can]

[Pollak]

I've read this yesterday, I believe that had it coming.

They had been warned to leave their airspace before shooting down. I also believe that the pilot came out alive so he should be fine.

That should teach them to havev some respect for privacy.

[troleybüs]

Turkey warned 10 times in 5 minutes but survivor pilot refuse this communication. I wonder what's the big plan here but I know public is extremely uncomfortable about this situation. They don't want any kind of war at their territory.

[Nemo1024]

It's not about Russia, Turkey have right to shoot any flying machine inside their borders. If it was another countries plane they still shoot it anyway. They didn't even know it was a Russian plane when they shot it.

That's the clincher, isn't it? Russian fighter jet was shot down over Syrain territory, so it was Turkish airforce that violated Syrian airspace.

It it was shot down over Turkey, the pilots would have ejected over Turkey, would be taken by Turkish border guard and would have been sitting safely in Turkish prison at worst. Not being dead by the hand of the US/Turkey friends - the ISIS.

Besides, Russian operations in Syrian airspace were no secret, Russia has (had?) an information sharing initiative with NATO.

And you know, when American fighters or recon panes violate Russian airspace, they are usually headed off not shot down...

This shooting-down was a premeditated act of provocation on Turkish/US part, who don't want ISIS destroyed. They've just achieved the opposite effect, though.

Oh, and anyone, who expects Putin to react in a hard or violent manner, has not been paying attention to Russian politics in the last 15 years, especially to Russia's reaction to the American invasion of Ukraine. The reaction will come, but it will be slow, balanced, and well-thought-out.