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Author Topic: Scammer Trade Fortress  (Read 19518 times)
KWH
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March 07, 2013, 01:06:31 PM
 #61

Also, make sure to send an anonymous tip to the FBI for money laundering Smiley

I have no respect for people like MoneyPakTrader who scam using scammer accusations. It's like false rape accusations.
When and how MoneyPakTrader.com scammed TradeFortress?
I'm starting to think you're a sock puppet.
I'm sure you think of everyone disagreeing with you as a sockpuppet, right? Especially when you're trying to earn from TradeFortress's money?

There's so many people trying to take advantage of each other - not just in the bitcoin economy. This 'accusation' hits close to home for me - a year ago, I did significant design work for a friend of a friend. After a few months, she wanted the money back because she didn't like what I made. Being that we haven't done it formally, I just shrugged and refunded her under the condition she won't my work, but a bit later I check her website and she hired someone to recreate what I did.

The same situation is happening here - MoneyPakTrader.com appears to be wanting to find another developer due to the bitcoin price rally. The fact that MoneyPakTrader wants a full refund makes me know his true intentions.

Had this happen to me as well, why I am skeptical. Add to that the the constant ultimatums in the forum for refunds. At least give it time to get sorted. I reserve my judgement until all the facts that can be made clear are made so.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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March 07, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
 #62

I've had a quick look over the code. I haven't tested it fully yet but if I get time I will do so, but from my quick glance over it I fail to see how this was "written by a 14 year old with 2 months experience".

MoneypakTrader.com
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March 07, 2013, 01:40:37 PM
 #63

I paid 27 BTC (currently valued over $1K USD).
I received this as the final product: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html

Therefore TF scammed me for 27 BTC.

The BS about arbitration was apparently redirection away from the facts of the dispute. TF has no intention on following through with arbitration at judge.me or anywhere else or he would have done so. It's very simple to file an arbitration claim as I did, but instead TF tried to weasel out on the name issue which he failed at.

You can judge for yourself based on the facts. maybe you think a website that doesn't accept btc deposits correctly and doesn't allow PW changes is acceptable. . . He pretended like he coded the decent looking bitcoin website in his sig when I asked him to do a site like that, but obviously he has little to no ability to code a bitcoin site like I asked for. Having the site spit out errors constantly and not even load if the connection to mtgox or blockchain is down is also unacceptable. The site he made is worthless to me.
Having that website in his sig while advertising coding skills is obviously fraudulently implying he coded it and can code something close to that. Particularly because I asked for a site like that and he went along with that for the deal we made.

I've addressed the legality issue of my services in my thread.

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March 07, 2013, 01:49:20 PM
 #64

maybe you think a website that doesn't accept btc deposits correctly and doesn't allow PW changes is acceptable.  

Having the site spit out errors constantly and not even load if the connection to mtgox or blockchain is down is also unacceptable

Perfect. Send TF a list of all the problems/changes you want made and have him fix/make them.

Did you have a contract with him?

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March 07, 2013, 02:22:45 PM
 #65

Perfect. Send TF a list of all the problems/changes you want made and have him fix/make them.
Did you have a contract with him?
Already done a long time ago and after much time wasted, the final site submissions continuously failed to meet the agreed specs and he has been fired.
If the mechanic on your car fails repeatedly to fix/improve it as you ask and it's obvious he is unqualified to do the original task, you don't ask him to keep working on it do you?
I guess that's the heart of the dispute though. If someone is unskilled/unable to do the job they say they can do, should they get time to learn and keep hammering at the job until it resembles what they agreed? I say no, if they can't / don't perform, then I shouldn't need to go through the work and tell them to bring everything into compliance (for the 3rd/4th times).
He knew all along the site needed a way to get bitcoins in and out and claimed (again) it was working on his final submission of the site. When he says it's working and basic tests show it's not, I won't argue with him about it, begging him to do the site correct, he's fired. He had plenty of warning that his work on the site was failing specs and it is no surprise to him being fired.
Ultimately his  willingness to pretend he is not an incompetent programmer allowed his scam to work. Along with pretending to know how to code a bitcoin ecommerce site (pretending to have done the site in his sig).

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March 07, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
 #66

Already done a long time ago and after much time wasted, the final site submissions continuously failed to meet the agreed specs and he has been fired.
If the mechanic on your car fails repeatedly to fix/improve it as you ask and it's obvious he is unqualified to do the original task, you don't ask him to keep working on it do you?
I guess that's the heart of the dispute though. If someone is unskilled/unable to do the job they say they can do, should they get time to learn and keep hammering at the job until it resembles what they agreed? I say no, if they can't / don't perform, then I shouldn't need to go through the work and tell them to bring everything into compliance (for the 3rd/4th times).
He knew all along the site needed a way to get bitcoins in and out and claimed (again) it was working on his final submission of the site. When he says it's working and basic tests show it's not, I won't argue with him about it, begging him to do the site correct, he's fired. He had plenty of warning that his work on the site was failing specs and it is no surprise to him being fired.
Ultimately his  willingness to pretend he is not an incompetent programmer allowed his scam to work. Along with pretending to know how to code a bitcoin ecommerce site (pretending to have done the site in his sig).

I'll ask the important part again, did you have a contract?

If you didn't have a contract that clearly specified the configuration that TF was supporting (x version of bitcoind, x version of php, x version of MySQL, x y and z web browsers) then he is liable to support whatever version of bitcoind, php, msql etc that you are using. Also, unless clearly specified, he is not liable to add a "forgot password" screen, although it would be unfair not to do so.

You say he is an incompetent programmer, I work in the web development industry, and many clients have come to the company I work for after spending sometimes in the hundreds of thousands of dollars on some cowboy web development company. They had to call it a loss and start all over again as it was their fault for choosing that company, they never seen a penny of that money as that company acted entirely within their contract. just because somebody is an incompetent programmer (which BTW I personally do not agree that TF is) doesn't mean you are entitled to a full/partial refund.

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March 07, 2013, 02:41:15 PM
 #67

I've had a quick look over the code. I haven't tested it fully yet but if I get time I will do so, but from my quick glance over it I fail to see how this was "written by a 14 year old with 2 months experience".
The script was made so only him can understand (actually, you can understand it, but you have to spend a few hours on it) and implement new features.
Tell me what experienced programmer would make ONE page for the entire backoffice script? A minor change to one of those if's would cause tons of bugs.

Maybe I exaggerated when I said "written by a 14 year old with 2 months experience". But that wasn't certainly made by a experienced programmer capable of making a website like this.
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March 07, 2013, 11:52:21 PM
Last edit: March 08, 2013, 12:13:52 AM by thepickingpair
 #68

I have to say, the only person in this dispute who sounds like they know what they're doing, and isn't irrational is TradeFortress. I've dealt with many, many, many web devs (some shit, some great) over the last 15 years. Carlos comes across as someone trying to sound technical, and stick up for a buddy. Also the move moneypaktrader pulled in starting his own arbitration and then choosing split the costs set off all sorts of red flags for me.

Just my $.02
MoneypakTrader.com
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March 08, 2013, 01:19:03 PM
 #69

Cutting to the facts you use in your analysis
Also the move moneypaktrader pulled in starting his own arbitration and then choosing split the costs set off all sorts of red flags for me.
Good thing I started the arbitration or it would never have been filed and we'd be left with TF BS about Real ID needed. Unfortunately, you can NOT file arbitration with judge.me and ask the other person to pay the full amount. I agreed to pay half the cost after TF raised that as an excuse (even though TF previously said he'd pay the full cost). I fell into the trap some of you are in (believing that if I addressed TF complaints, he might go through and follow his word by paying the other half). Obviously his comment on this topic was subterfuge and it worked like his other subterfuges worked in distracting people from the real issue. This is how he does the work too - TF move #1 - Give me a final product that fails spec in multiple ways and ask me go through and find all the bugs to correct. Typical customer response - try to explain all the bugs to him. Repeat TF move #1 with excuses as to why he can't perform correctly and as much misdirection as possible. He KNEW the spec when he submitted the final site to me every time it failed, so when he submitted it the last time, I was within my rights to reject his contract for fraud.
Hopefully that clears up the facts a little.

It is funny that the scammer who took 27 btc from me, 15 from another, more from another, probably more from others. . .  ends up as the one people seem to side with even after I posted his code for public review.
He knows just enough about coding to be dangerous and lead people on to take more coin from them.
He got me, but hopefully this thread is preventing others from losing coin to him.

I can understand if people don't like my writing, but to allow theft/fraud of coin from me because of that is a little overboard.

I'll ask the important part again, did you have a contract?
Yes, the contract started with me asking for a site that could process bitcoin deposits similar to the site in his sig. He agreed (implying that he designed that site, probably how he does the scam). Months later I realize he's never coded a bitcoin deposit taking website.
When a person engages in a trade, they have a duty to perform competently or else they will be responsible for refunds. I had no agreement to give him money for sub-standard non-functional work.
I am responsible for giving him the 27 BTC and facilitating his scam, true. But I am definitely within my rights to cancel his contract because he breached it by submitting a final website (multiple times) that failed to meet the requirements of the contract.

Anyways, all this would be resolved in arbitration. Unfortunately judge.me is apparently unable/unwilling to do it. If they ever explain why the case is being ignored, we will know the reason, until then we can only speculate.
I'd pay half for arbitration but it's obvious TF has no intention of refunding any of my coin regardless of the arbitrator's ruling.
I like sublime's idea of having open arbitration in the forums, which is kinda what we're doing here.
I submitted my evidence (which is undisputed as far as I can tell) -
1) I paid 27 BTC.
2) I received this (after much back and forth on his inability to code the site correctly) - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
3) I canceled the contract.
4) TF refuses any refund.
5) At least 2 other forum users have similar complaints (one has scammer tag though).
6) TF agreed to pay arbitration but never filed the case (TF instead emailed judge.me with complaints against me, preventing my case from being allowed, see below).
I said I was going to contact judge.me support because you're not identifying yourself with a full legal name. [...] Nor any other response after I mentioned you run a money laundering business on the silk road.
7) It appears that instead of filing/paying the fee, TF intentionally sabatoged the arbitration with unfounded false allegations. . .

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March 08, 2013, 03:16:25 PM
 #70

even after I posted his code for public review. link please?
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March 08, 2013, 03:24:52 PM
 #71

even after I posted his code for public review. link please?

I'm releasing a zip of TF final product of my site moneypaktrader.com :
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
I paid 27 BTC (currently valued over $1K USD).
I received this as the final product: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
direct link - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html
2) I received this (after much back and forth on his inability to code the site correctly) - http://94.75.216.85/en/file/398233/Moneypak-zip.html

 Wink
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March 08, 2013, 03:28:16 PM
 #72

Shit I can't have my dad review the code for this page. I will get another programmer to review it. I will let the forum know what they say, but I really only trust what my dad says.
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March 08, 2013, 03:46:46 PM
 #73

Shit I can't have my dad review the code for this page. I will get another programmer to review it. I will let the forum know what they say, but I really only trust what my dad says.

"My dad is too busy to review the code". That's what did it for me. How about you guys at home?
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March 08, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
 #74

Not that he is to busy asshole that he is a deacon in the church and I cant send him to a page with vibrators and bongs on it. 
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March 08, 2013, 04:27:50 PM
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Shit I can't have my dad review the code for this page. I will get another programmer to review it. I will let the forum know what they say, but I really only trust what my dad says.

"My dad is too busy to review the code". That's what did it for me. How about you guys at home?

Yup, that was the line.
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March 08, 2013, 04:35:17 PM
 #76

Please note that none of us can actually run that code without a copy of the MySQL database.

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March 08, 2013, 04:35:32 PM
 #77

^^ sheep
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March 08, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
 #78

Not that he is to busy asshole that he is a deacon in the church and I cant send him to a page with vibrators and bongs on it. 

Then just download the zip file yourself and email it to him or something, the codes not much use without the MySQL DB anyways.

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March 08, 2013, 05:50:43 PM
 #79

^^ sheep

That's priceless, coming from a family that believes in gods.   Cheesy

Anyway, regarding this thread - MoneypakTrader.com, you make FAR too many assumptions in your posts.  Try writing smaller rants, stick to a couple key points per post, and move forward once those facts have been confirmed.  You'll never get anywhere with your "apparently, obviously, assuming, etc." talk...

https://nastyscam.com - landing page up     https://vod.fan - advanced image hosting - coming soon!
OGNasty has early onset dementia; keep this in mind when discussing his past actions.
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March 08, 2013, 06:36:41 PM
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^^ sheep

That's priceless, coming from a family that believes in gods.   Cheesy

Anyway, regarding this thread - MoneypakTrader.com, you make FAR too many assumptions in your posts.  Try writing smaller rants, stick to a couple key points per post, and move forward once those facts have been confirmed.  You'll never get anywhere with your "apparently, obviously, assuming, etc." talk...

Man you guys are relentless. Where do you get "a family that believes in god" I said my dad was a deacon in the church. I didn't say what I believe in.

I am agnostic. fyi
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