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Bind
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DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR BTC YOU WILL GET BURNED


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June 10, 2011, 01:07:19 AM
 #81

Bind, some things you do not understand.


And if BCM resumes PP support, I will resume using it. I have no other option.

I understand completely.

If you choose those risks that is one thing.

But if you do it without knowledge of that risk at BitCoinMarket's suggestion, then its quite another.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 10, 2011, 01:18:47 AM
 #82

What Dwdollar suggestion?!
If you don't know the history of BCM why you come here to bash it? It was never a suggestion and risks were well known and advised.
Too bad PP remains as the best thing to buy BTC from the real world (unless you live on US, but NOT the whole world lives at US).
Bind
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June 10, 2011, 02:40:52 AM
 #83

What Dwdollar suggestion?!
If you don't know the history of BCM why you come here to bash it? It was never a suggestion and risks were well known and advised.
Too bad PP remains as the best thing to buy BTC from the real world (unless you live on US, but NOT the whole world lives at US).

I do know the history of BCM. I have successfully traded on BCM. By him placing that other Paypal option on the website and choosing to act as an escrow service for it without advising people of the known risks, he approved its use, condoned its use, and advised its use.

How do you define "well known"?? The risks were NEVER displayed on the BCM website. Were you born with this knowledge? Of course not.

You trust the person you are doing business with. BCM is a trust service. Dwdollar violated that trust and all he says is sorry instead of fixing his mistake. Instead, the customer lost out because of him and his service. Thats the facts.

I agree paypal is certainly the most convenient, but I think we define the term "best" differently.
To me the term "best" in regrds to online financial transaction are inclusive of safe, fast, friendly, and secure.

Paypal is NOT safe, friendly, nor secure in regards to any btc transactions, although it certainly is fast.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 10, 2011, 03:36:58 AM
 #84

I do know the history of BCM. I have successfully traded on BCM. By him placing that other Paypal option on the website and choosing to act as an escrow service for it without advising people of the known risks, he approved its use, condoned its use, and advised its use.

How do you define "well known"?? The risks were NEVER displayed on the BCM website. Were you born with this knowledge? Of course not.

You trust the person you are doing business with. BCM is a trust service. Dwdollar violated that trust and all he says is sorry instead of fixing his mistake. Instead, he screws the customer who lost out becasue of him and his service. Thats the facts.

I agree paypal is certainly the most convenient, but I think we define the term "best" differently.
To me the term "best" in regrds to online financial transaction are inclusive of safe, fast, friendly, and secure.

Paypal is NOT safe, friendly, nor secure in regards to any btc transactions, although it certainly is fast.
I disagree with everything you said but offer nothing in return to dispute it in the spirit of your posting history.  Tongue

I will say though you've certainly come to the wrong place to play pretend lawyer.

Bind
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June 10, 2011, 05:35:19 AM
 #85

I am posting here not to be a pretend lawyer, but to advise people to shy away from trust services who have shown no regard for the protection or safely of their customers, and offers no reimbursements when, through that trust services own fault and apathy, the customer gets burned.

Yes my posting history is low but I am already listed as a reputable trader in the Marketplace > List of honest traders.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 10, 2011, 11:25:35 AM
 #86

Do you at least even knew the old site? What went with Paypal and Jed (Mt.Gox's former owner)? The pain in the ass Paypal has being so far, the paypal articles about bitcoin? Newcomers may be caught by PP insanity, but the older users are well aware of what is it.

Regardless it, you come with lawyer BS chick-chat,and I'd been trading for PP for ages now without any issue. This because;
a) The community was smaller and get burned would cause more damage;
b) Bitcoin was way cheaper

Like anything else, PP itself can be ok for low transactions, but if the buyer is a scammer it gives him leverage; still the main issue is the buyer to be a scammer.
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June 10, 2011, 12:25:56 PM
 #87

Bind you are nuts.

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June 10, 2011, 02:47:43 PM
 #88

Bind you are a negative, suspicious git. The owner of bitcoinmarket never once tried to convince anyone to use paypal or break their terms of service, he put paypal up as an option and it was a very valuable option for many of us. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that it was conniving on the part of bitcoinmarket. Of course bcm made money from the transactions, thats how society operates, you provide a service and you get paid for it. You obviously dont run a business like a lot of us here on this forum do.

+1

It's not Dustin
it's not even paypal.
It's a few bad actors.
What it comes down to is that there were scammers using paypal and their TOS to their advantage by stating that they never authorized the transaction or some other claim and PP sides with the buyer.
I used PP on BCM, I bought some coins from numerous sellers.

The only nefarious stuff going on is with the PP buyers and/or their accounts.


This.

We would have the same problems with credit card payments, personal checks, etc.  Anyone can fraudulently claim they didn't authorize a transaction, or actually steal credentials in which case the legitimate owner rightly disputes the transaction.

Online vendors especially have been dealing with this issue for quite a while.  The current bitcoin exchanges aren't nearly as robust nor do they have the tools to investigate/enforce/prevent this type of fraud compared to other long standing online commerce.  This is essentially commodity that can't be tracked being sent between addresses that can't be verified to be associated with relatively anonymous parties that wants to buy or sell.  Its the digital equivalent of cash in the mail.  Until there are trusted exchanges who actually have the ability to back their assertions of trust with something of value BTC related transactions will be the easy target for internet scammers.

Although I was burned on a couple of transactions, it was <10% of my bitcoin transactions over the last couple of weeks.  I continue to trade, cautiously, and I hope others will do the same.  This is an emerging market and its up to everyone to educate themselves on the risks of their transactions and conduct business accordingly.  Providing relative safety for transactions has value and some have already started to attempt to provide this with varying success.
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DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR BTC YOU WILL GET BURNED


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June 10, 2011, 10:18:03 PM
 #89

It is not only fraudulent buyers you have to worry about.

You also have to worry about paypal taking in upon themselves to cancel and reverse transactions, which is already ocurring. Heck, even if you gift it, paypal can cancel and reverse it even if the buyer doesnt want it cancelled or reversed.

On a side note, I find it ironic and mildly amusing that people are crying about the fraud and doing so much to attempt to prevent fraud, yet they condone, promote, and suggest comitting fraud in trying to curcumvent the paypal rules.

Anyone trying to use paypal who knows their rules, deserves exacty what outcome paypal decides on based on their rules, in my humble opinion.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 10, 2011, 11:00:56 PM
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Thank god Bind doesn't accept PayPal for Crystal Meth on Silk Road

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June 10, 2011, 11:13:32 PM
 #91

Its stated very clearly in paypals acceptable use policy that you must not use paypal for currency exchanges.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/AcceptableUse_full&locale.x=en_US

That means if you've used paypal in any way connected to currency exchanges (even virtual currency, as confirmed by paypal accounts getting locked for purchasing WoW gold) it's likely to get you in trouble somewhere down the line.
Bind
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DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR BTC YOU WILL GET BURNED


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June 11, 2011, 11:47:19 AM
 #92

Thank god Bind doesn't accept PayPal for Crystal Meth on Silk Road

I do not sell Crystal Meth on Silk Road.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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June 13, 2011, 04:24:59 PM
 #93

you cannot directly infer from Paypal's ToS that virtual exchanges are off-limits, they just mention currency exchanges (which must be meant to avoid PP use on Forex sites and the like)

PayPal is Second Life's ONLY payment processor and it's also acceptable at the VirWox exchange, if virtual exchanges were so forbidden you would imagine that at least Linden Labs would have changed their deposit/withdrawal system, no?

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June 13, 2011, 09:13:54 PM
 #94

Yea "currency exchange" definitely needs to be revised in their ToS.

For this reason, I think PayPal is stopping BTC transactions and not other virtual good currencies. If BTC was game currency, they wouldn't care and just take your transaction fees.

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June 16, 2011, 05:56:03 PM
 #95

So why can we not delete out Paypal address's from our accounts?

Maybe I just don't see how, but every time I try I get a 'no input' error when trying to clear out the payment processor.

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Bind
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DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR BTC YOU WILL GET BURNED


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June 22, 2011, 03:00:54 PM
 #96

So why can we not delete out Paypal address's from our accounts?

Maybe I just don't see how, but every time I try I get a 'no input' error when trying to clear out the payment processor.

just overwrite it with a fake email

no idea whats up with DwDolla, he has been MIA since june 9th.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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September 14, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
 #97

We're launching a new marketplace in order to fulfill the growing need of having the opportunity to perform BitCoin-Paypal exchange marketplace. We employ direct peer-to-peer Paypal transactions between marketplace members with delivery confirmations sent to marketplace engine by Paypal. that  Yes, it's not guaranted that the person you deal with won't want to scam you. No one could get such a guarantee ever from anywhere. Instead, we guarantee that the deal will be either fulfilled properly by both parties or will not happen at all. We also provide our members with detailed information on each party involved so 'go/no-go' decision for a partucular deal should be an easy one.

We did our best to keep fees as low as possible - 0.5% average for the transaction. We collect 1% fee for Buy Limit orders and we let correspondent Sell Market orders to run with 0% fee.

Marketplace is just recently started live and will continue to evolve, improving and extending trading options offered. We've decided to run as invitation-only, so should you be intrested in joining in - contact me here via PM or our support team via 'contact us' link. Kindly be ready to provide proof of trustworthness as a BitCoin trader.

Marketplace home topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44031.0
 
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