Wanted: Mining pool to take out alt block chains

[TheButterZone]

Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!

Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.

Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.  

And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.

Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.

There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.

[annette786]

Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!

Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.

Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.  

And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.

Gladamas-- you nematode, are you saying Litcoin is anything near as relevant as bitcoin?  Litecoin is an unimaginative clone coveted by the genetically inept.  It detracts.  It should be culled.

[markm]

That attitude has probably turned more capital away from bitcoin than bitcoin's current market cap, maybe several times its market cap.

For quite a while bitcoin was growing in value even despite such atrocious attitude, and the very fact it was growing in value faster than most alternatives made it reasonable and practical to use bitcoin as collateral against which to borrow something that wasn't appreciating so fast to use as spending-money (even to buy more bitcoins as more collateral to borrow more spending cash and so on).

Since bitcoin was overtaken by various alternatives it began to maybe make sense to use the even faster appreciating alternatives as collateral but still there are some that are not appreciating as fast as bitcoin so still bitcoin is maybe not the best one to borrow as spending cash.

Having alternatives is good. Maybe some day some of them will become relatively stable against certain brands of fiat even so that one could even begin to hedge against various fiats with them, though attempts so far to accomplish that failed due to their constantly rising above the value of the fiat, it simply became too expensive to try to keep suppressing them back down toward parity with fiat.

-MarkM-

[Sant001]

Alt coins are a great testing field, where if a nice feature is developed and tested successfully it can later be merged into Bitcoin making it stronger.

I support alt coins.

[cunicula]

I propose that attack work as follows.

1) Add only to the normal chain.
2) Reject all blocks from competing miners.
3) Impose 5% fees on all txns. If 5% of inputs are not offered up a fee. Don't let that the cheapskate put that txn in a block.
4) Sell all proceeds on the exchange immediately.
5) Continue until exchange rate is near 0. Now stop.
6) Rinse and repeat if the exchange rate picks up again.
7) If this works properly. It will trigger a run to the exchange. The attackers will earn 5% of whatever money can be gotten out.
Do not conduct any double-spends. The exchanges must be allowed to operate as normal to ensure ROI for the attackers.

If someone tries to close the exchanges. We should open our own.

[johnyj]

Another block chain which have 50 coin/block reward forever and see if that helps to stablize the dramatic price swing

[Gladamas]

Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!

Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.

Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.  

And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.

Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.

There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.

The statistical probability of a >10 minute block on Litecoin is much less than the probability of such a block on Bitcoin. Just take a look at http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin. And yes, I am getting quick confirmations in my Litecoin wallet.

If you have a slow network connection or are not connected to any peers then I can see how your client will not show any confirmations. But in reality, the transaction is still confirmed whether your client shows it or not.

[cunicula]

And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.

I agree completely with this. The fact that the alt coins are mindless clones makes them a bad idea.

PPCoin is the only exception. Of course, you cant 51% it so PPCoin is off-topic.

[SebastianJu]

TheButterZone... your argument with 1! confirmation only shows that you dont understand how block creation works. Of course you can make a btc transaction and nearly instantly you get one confirmation for it. Thats random luck. But bitcoin only gets one confirmation or block created in 10 minutes in average. Litecoin gets one block or confirmation in 2.5 minute in average. So claiming that you had luck with btc-transactions because right after your transaction a block was found and your transactions was included isnt an argument because its simply luck.
It remains that you have to wait in average 1 hour to get 6 confirmations in bitcoin. Litecoin would need 15 minutes for the same in average.

This waiting time is annoying when using mtgox. I wonder when they will change it. There is nearly no higher security to wait for 6 confirmations. For me thats the biggest disadvantage of bitcoin to wait so long for a transaction. I mean when youre awake 14 hours a day doing arbitrage with mtgox you can do a couple of trades daily only. The internet is fast but its currency lame. Too bad. So i think litecoin is addressing this problem even though its still not really fast and not so big like bitcoin is till now.

[TheButterZone]

Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!

Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.

Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.  

And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.

Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.

There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.

The statistical probability of a >10 minute block on Litecoin is much less than the probability of such a block on Bitcoin. Just take a look at http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin. And yes, I am getting quick confirmations in my Litecoin wallet.

If you have a slow network connection or are not connected to any peers then I can see how your client will not show any confirmations. But in reality, the transaction is still confirmed whether your client shows it or not.

Wasn't using a client to watch for confirms; hitting refresh every minute on the address's page at http://explorer.litecoin.net/ and it did NOT show a confirmation before at least 7 minutes 100% of the time. So much for "Litecoin gets one block or confirmation in 2.5 minute in average", SebastianJu. I'd have better "luck" flipping a bloody coin.

It's a simple question, really:
Do you mine LTC*? y/n

*and therefore defend it to the death, which Bitcoin doesn't require

[SebastianJu]

Another hint that you dont know how these currencies work. Yesterday night i put btc to mtgox and had to wait 1 hour and 10 minutes for 1! block/confirmation. You probably dont know that the 10minutes and 2.5minutes only are the average time between 2 blocks created. Mining is more gambling than a hardcoded time when a new block is created.

[TheButterZone]

My experience= 100% unacceptably long block times far in excess of the alleged "average" with LTC vs 50% at worst slower times with BTC. LTC=the house always wins. BTC=far more than a snowball's chance in hell.

/unwatch

[Brunic]

Not sure how it would work, but perhaps it mines BTC, then switches over as the owner identifies assailable targets.  Ideas welcome.

Why don't you start by making that pool yourself? If people are interested in a bloodbath between chains, they'll join you if work is being done.

I'm looking forward to see the next Bloodcoin. 

[cunicula]

Make it profitable. Pay for the work in BTC proceeds and use the strategy I suggested above. If we can show that attacks are profitable, then no one will start up these chains again.

The point should not be to double-spend or roll back txns. That is idiotic. It will not yield a positive return on investment.

Instead, you should merely seize all block reward from miners, enforce some tolerable fees on sends, and sell all altcoin revenue for BTC immediately. Kill the coins through taxation and dumping cheap coins on the market, not through vandalism.

People will either
1) weather the storm and accept a total loss (since the value of their holdings will be ~0 once the taxation is over)
2) Accept paying you part of their balance in order to get some money out. Cha-ching!

To make this work better, I would suggest gradually increasing mandatory fees over time. This should provoke a run for the exit. You don't want altcoin value to collapse too quickly. That is not profitable.

[gmaxwell]

Nor is it welcome under mining.  Take your attack crap to the cesspool where it belongs.

[girafon]

i'm still able to send 'old' TRC coins, and see them included in later blocks.

Any chance you can extract the full reject reason from your log file ? (the client log, if you were solo-mining) ; could be some time-sync issue, or your local client/daemin just "saw" the new block too late.
(looks like cgminer output)

[cunicula]

i'm still able to send 'old' TRC coins, and see them included in later blocks.

Any chance you can extract the full reject reason from your log file ? (the client log, if you were solo-mining) ; could be some time-sync issue, or your local client/daemin just "saw" the new block too late.
(looks like cgminer output)

There is no reason why a 51% attack needs to affect txns. It can just monopolize mining and have no other impact on end-users. (i.e. unapproved miners get their blocks rejected. other than that everything is normal)

[c4n10]

LOL!!!

"Alt-coins are a threat to bitcoin!!! FUD!!! FUD!!! FUD!!!"

Go to any exchange, bitcoin is still king. It's not necessary to kill the alt-chains in order to preserve the future of bitcoin.

In fact, kill the alt-chains and you're only hurting yourself AND bitcoin because right now there are people with hashrates that are entirely USELESS for hashing bitcoin, these people are hashing on alt-coins while simultaneously feeding the market with more demand for BTC because when they go to sell those alt-coins they are selling for BTC thus increasing the demand for BTC without also increasing the supply of BTC which makes BTC more valuable.

Kill those alt-chains and you kill a LARGE percentage of the BTC market because now all of those low hash-rate miners (who are the VAST majority of any given coin's hashing network as well as the VAST majority of people using the exchanges trying to sell off their alt-coins to get their hands on the more coveted bitcoin) will pretty much immediately lose all interest in bitcoin and any/all derivatives of bitcoin because there is no longer a way for them to participate and turn a profit.

Kill the alt-chains and you kill bitcoin as well.

[girafon]

i'm still able to send 'old' TRC coins, and see them included in later blocks.

Any chance you can extract the full reject reason from your log file ? (the client log, if you were solo-mining) ; could be some time-sync issue, or your local client/daemin just "saw" the new block too late.
(looks like cgminer output)

There is no reason why a 51% attack needs to affect txns. It can just monopolize mining and have no other impact on end-users. (i.e. unapproved miners get their blocks rejected. other than that everything is normal)

Yeah, you're right, i guess it's because i won't necessarily first prevent other from mining, if i were attacking...

Anyway ... the "tiny, micro, small" pool i've been mining on from time to time found two blocks in the last 24 hours, but .. currently, that pool hashing power is really low, less than 500 M hashes /s not unusual then...

i'll wait and see if another one is finally found by this one

[Bitcoin Oz]

If bitcoin cant survive because of alt coins...then it doesnt deserve too. Same with any alt coin.