Bitcoin Forum
November 21, 2019, 09:06:23 PM *
News: Help collect the most notable posts made over the last 10 years.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: What do you say?
Yes - 148 (74%)
No - 52 (26%)
Total Voters: 200

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Should Giga be tagged as a scammer?  (Read 17280 times)
jamesg
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000


AKA: gigavps


View Profile
January 10, 2013, 01:31:31 PM
 #181

It just seems like a very convenient excuse.

For someone who makes a lot of excuses, I could see how you could have interpreted it at such.

You apply the law when it suits you, and not in the best interests of your bondholders.

Payments are my responsibility now. I did not ask for it, it was GLBSE's job. Now that it is my job, it will done right. It is not worth the risk to follow in GLBSE's footsteps.

You said it yourself above; When GLBSE had the responsibility everything was easy peasy.

Because they were not doing what they were supposed to. And when they started to figure out just how fucked they were, they closed the site without warning or notice.

Fine then, go list on BTCT-CO.

To continue to do things the same as GLBSE with only lead to the same conclusion as GLBSE. That is unacceptable.

I'm not going to hire a solicitor to write a transfer letter so I suppose you just got 10 GIGAMINING bonds richer.

This is not what I want. Please compile the information as requested and send it to Quentin. You'll get paid and we will be able to continue with Gigamining/Teramining.
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
The Bitcoin Forum is turning 10 years old! Join the community in sharing and exploring the notable posts made over the years.
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
1574370383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574370383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574370383
Reply with quote  #2

1574370383
Report to moderator
Deprived
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 10, 2013, 03:26:41 PM
 #182

This is not what I want. Please compile the information as requested and send it to Quentin. You'll get paid and we will be able to continue with Gigamining/Teramining.

What you keep conveniently ignoring is that for those who only hold a few shares the cost of compiling the information will often exceed the value of those shares.  That's because in many countries the cost of an apostilled document is fixed and fairly high (there's only one authority that can apostille per country - for obvious reasons - so no room for competition on the price as it's a monopoly).

If I lend you 3 BTC then ask for an apostilled claim before repaying and an apostille costs you 4 BTC what are your realistic options?  That's the position a lot of your smaller investors are now in.

Your claim that you can't allow transfer of ownership now as GLBSE were previously doing it is a misinterpretation.  If you sold transferrable contracts (or bonds - as some would say you had previously characterised them) previously then the regulatory requirements on you remain largely the same irrespective of who handles the transfer of ownership.

Does anyone here actually KNOW the US law in terms of KYC/AML?  In the UK if a customer refuses to provide KYC information then the seller has to either provide a total refund OR (if they believe there's an AML-related reason for the refusal) make an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) to the relevant authorities (who that is depends on the company's supervisory body).  In this instance it's plain that in many cases the refusal to provide the required information is purely an economic one - that doing so costs more than the benefits of doing so - so IF this were in the UK Giga would need to cancel the contract in its entirety where there was refusal to provide the information.

I'd suggest first port of call for anyone getting screwed like this (being asked to incur costs greater than the contractual benefit) would be whatever fair-trading / consumer protection bodies there are in the US.  Complaint would be that he entered into a contract with you then is asking that you pay more than the benefit to you of the contract before he'll honour his obligations - and that he sold the contracts as being transferrable and is now also forbidding transfer which is the only other way you could recoup ANY of the investment you're otherwise losing.
deeplink
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


In cryptography we trust


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 12:40:32 AM
 #183

I could be wrong (IANAL) but my issue has become I have no intention of dragging a lawyer into this, so I feel that GigaVPS is pretending it's against the law when it's really not.

I could be wrong
On this point, you are 100% correct.

lol did nobody notice that gigavps just admitted that he is pretending it's against the law when it's really not?



In the UK if a customer refuses to provide KYC information then the seller has to either provide a total refund OR (if they believe there's an AML-related reason for the refusal) make an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) to the relevant authorities (who that is depends on the company's supervisory body).  In this instance it's plain that in many cases the refusal to provide the required information is purely an economic one - that doing so costs more than the benefits of doing so - so IF this were in the UK Giga would need to cancel the contract in its entirety where there was refusal to provide the information.

This is the only logical and reasonable way to do it. Nullify contracts of customers that do not want to proceed with the new rules, i.e. refund their investments (minus already paid dividends).

Any other way means we have another scammer onboard. (What is actually funny is that scammers are now scamming other scammers on this forum.)
Deprived
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 01:53:54 AM
 #184

I could be wrong (IANAL) but my issue has become I have no intention of dragging a lawyer into this, so I feel that GigaVPS is pretending it's against the law when it's really not.

I could be wrong
On this point, you are 100% correct.

lol did nobody notice that gigavps just admitted that he is pretending it's against the law when it's really not?



In the UK if a customer refuses to provide KYC information then the seller has to either provide a total refund OR (if they believe there's an AML-related reason for the refusal) make an SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) to the relevant authorities (who that is depends on the company's supervisory body).  In this instance it's plain that in many cases the refusal to provide the required information is purely an economic one - that doing so costs more than the benefits of doing so - so IF this were in the UK Giga would need to cancel the contract in its entirety where there was refusal to provide the information.

This is the only logical and reasonable way to do it. Nullify contracts of customers that do not want to proceed with the new rules, i.e. refund their investments (minus already paid dividends).

Any other way means we have another scammer onboard. (What is actually funny is that scammers are now scamming other scammers on this forum.)

Yeah - I had a look around online earlier at various sources relating to KYC in the US.  Seems the general principle is identical to in the UK and other countries:

1.  If you require KYC you MUST make that plain BEFORE entering into a contract.
2.  If you use a third=party to handle sales you CAN delegate KYC requirements to them BUT if you do so you MUST make sure they comply with the KTC policy that applies to you.
3.  If a potential client refuses to provide KYC your options are either a) Refund them any funds paid to you or b) Raise an SAR with relevant authorities.  There's no option c) of threaten to hold their funds but don't raise an SAR.
4.  If you require KYC information then you MUST have a written policy in respect of it and a named compliance officer.  If KYC requirements are delegated to a third-party then THEY must have a written policy and compliance officer.

It's also not clear on what basis giga is claiming he needs KYC information.  From what I can see, similar to in the UK, businesses that must obtain KYC information need to be registered wuth a supervisory/regulatory authority.  I see no statement from giga or his lawyer as to where they're registered as business meeting the conditions such that they need to obtain KYC information.  Are they, for example, registered as a Financial Services provider?  Any such registration should be disclosed to customers.

The above is important as - if he's claiming legal necessity for his actions then rather obviously:

1.  He needs to meet the relevant legal requirements on his end,
2.  If his failure to proper understand HIS position has led to the problem then any burden of cost in rectifying HIS mistake (in not making plain at the start the need for KYC information - a requirement where such information is needed) should fall on him.

There also appears to be a bait and switch on two specific factors:

1.  Giga is now claiming all deals were with an LLC.  But no disclosure was made that commitments on his end were restricted by limited liability when entering the deal.  Any limited liability needs to be disclosed in advance - it can't later be claimed.

2.  The contracts/bonds were transferrable/tradable.  Now, apparently, they aren't.  That's a very clear reduction in their value - with, as far as I can see, no agreement to such a change ever made by investors.  You can't start changing a contract unilaterally just because it's inconvenient for you to honour it as agreed.  If he's saying he can't honour the original agreement for legal reasons then it would be reasonable to allow him to cancel the deal - refunding amounts paid less dividends paid to date.



deeplink
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


In cryptography we trust


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 02:19:02 AM
 #185

If he's saying he can't honour the original agreement for legal reasons then it would be reasonable to allow him to cancel the deal - refunding amounts paid less dividends paid to date.

Not only would it be reasonable, but it is obligatory to allow customers to cancel the deal and refund amounts paid less dividends to date. Anything else is scamming.

But we all know this is not gonna happen and this will be dragged on for the next couple of months.
TradeFortress 🏕
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1023


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 02:42:09 AM
 #186

If he's saying he can't honour the original agreement for legal reasons then it would be reasonable to allow him to cancel the deal - refunding amounts paid less dividends paid to date.

Not only would it be reasonable, but it is obligatory to allow customers to cancel the deal and refund amounts paid less dividends to date. Anything else is scamming.

But we all know this is not gonna happen and this will be dragged on for the next couple of months.
Until the mods grow a spine and tag him.
fcmatt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1750
Merit: 1001

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 03:14:16 AM
 #187

I propose he cannot do the buyback without selling current hardware at major loss and ruin his plans.
The reason for stalling as long as possible is so he can possess asic gear. The income from that, in a short time would allow a buy back or a new terramining crap plan to get fresh btc coming in or simply continue to pay peanuts while he laughs to the bank.

Demand money back before asics arrive. That is how you get even.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
usagi
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 812
Merit: 1000


13


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 05:49:29 AM
 #188

I propose he cannot do the buyback without selling current hardware at major loss and ruin his plans.
The reason for stalling as long as possible is so he can possess asic gear. The income from that, in a short time would allow a buy back or a new terramining crap plan to get fresh btc coming in or simply continue to pay peanuts while he laughs to the bank.

Demand money back before asics arrive. That is how you get even.

That's the point though. He isn't going to give the money back. He's going to make you go through a lawyer.
fcmatt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1750
Merit: 1001

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 06:33:32 AM
 #189

I propose he cannot do the buyback without selling current hardware at major loss and ruin his plans.
The reason for stalling as long as possible is so he can possess asic gear. The income from that, in a short time would allow a buy back or a new terramining crap plan to get fresh btc coming in or simply continue to pay peanuts while he laughs to the bank.

Demand money back before asics arrive. That is how you get even.

That's the point though. He isn't going to give the money back. He's going to make you go through a lawyer.

Then I propose that the bond holders create a thread and get 20+ people to all agree on a date for payment and
if giga does not agree to a reasonable date.. he should get a scammer tag. naturally the mods should be involved on
what they think a reasonable date should be. say 10 more days.

he broke the contract, he has had plenty of time to make things right, and all the BS he has created is not fair to the bond holders.

a person cannot just hold onto other people's money for weeks and months on end without repercussions no matter what excuse they
dream up next. those dividends better be getting interest too.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
usagi
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 812
Merit: 1000


13


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 08:04:49 AM
 #190

I propose he cannot do the buyback without selling current hardware at major loss and ruin his plans.
The reason for stalling as long as possible is so he can possess asic gear. The income from that, in a short time would allow a buy back or a new terramining crap plan to get fresh btc coming in or simply continue to pay peanuts while he laughs to the bank.

Demand money back before asics arrive. That is how you get even.

That's the point though. He isn't going to give the money back. He's going to make you go through a lawyer.

Then I propose that the bond holders create a thread and get 20+ people to all agree on a date for payment and
if giga does not agree to a reasonable date.. he should get a scammer tag. naturally the mods should be involved on
what they think a reasonable date should be. say 10 more days.

he broke the contract, he has had plenty of time to make things right, and all the BS he has created is not fair to the bond holders.

a person cannot just hold onto other people's money for weeks and months on end without repercussions no matter what excuse they
dream up next. those dividends better be getting interest too.

Question:    What do you say?
Yes    - 104 (69.3%)
No    - 46 (30.7%)
   
Total Voters: 150
jamesg
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000


AKA: gigavps


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 11:55:51 AM
 #191

I guess it's a good thing that payments will restart Monday for all verified claimants.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75802.msg1447826#msg1447826

This includes all back payments and Monday's payment.

Best,
James
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064


Bitcoin is antisemitic


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 02:20:01 PM
 #192

Best,
James

I wish that you get bankrupted by your lawyer. That would be my best payment.
jamesg
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000


AKA: gigavps


View Profile
January 11, 2013, 02:39:33 PM
 #193

I wish that you get bankrupted by your lawyer. That would be my best payment.

Hi conspirosphere.tk,

Submit your information to Quentin, and I'll make sure to rush out all back payments for Gigamining.

Being negative and suggesting that we do things the same way GLBSE did won't get us anywhere except where GLBSE is.

Have a great weekend,
James
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064


Bitcoin is antisemitic


View Profile
January 12, 2013, 01:04:14 PM
 #194

I'd suggest first port of call for anyone getting screwed like this (being asked to incur costs greater than the contractual benefit) would be whatever fair-trading / consumer protection bodies there are in the US. 

If I were based in the US I would probably just have contacted the cops. Since I am not, I found this:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
where I am going to spill the beans.
à la guerre comme à la guerre
vrtrasura
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 62
Merit: 10


...


View Profile
January 14, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
 #195

If nothing else I should be able to ask for a refund.  Giga please give me my money back, I don't want to call it a loan with interest or anything.  Lets just say I left my wallet at your house, please return it. 
camolist
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
January 14, 2013, 10:47:23 PM
 #196

If nothing else I should be able to ask for a refund.  Giga please give me my money back, I don't want to call it a loan with interest or anything.  Lets just say I left my wallet at your house, please return it. 

yes.

refund or he is a scammer. there is no other way about this.


i have so little in this that getting a lawyer involved makes no sense but there is no way he could come out ahead

jamesg
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000


AKA: gigavps


View Profile
January 14, 2013, 10:51:10 PM
 #197

If nothing else I should be able to ask for a refund.  Giga please give me my money back, I don't want to call it a loan with interest or anything.  Lets just say I left my wallet at your house, please return it. 

Please make a claim and you will get paid.
randomguy7
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 528
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 14, 2013, 11:37:13 PM
 #198

If nothing else I should be able to ask for a refund.  Giga please give me my money back, I don't want to call it a loan with interest or anything.  Lets just say I left my wallet at your house, please return it. 

Please make a claim and you will get paid.

You're the one refusing to do business with us based on the terms we agreed on. Maybe you can't legally do business with us without knowing our IDs, but you took our money without requesting IDs first. What you CAN do is undo the whole deal by refunding (share buy price - paid mining dividends) us. At least those who can prove what they paid for their shares.
vrtrasura
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 62
Merit: 10


...


View Profile
January 15, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
 #199

We've been through this, it's not worth spending the money to get a refund and I don't trust you or your lawyer with my identity. 
randomguy7
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 528
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 15, 2013, 12:27:04 AM
 #200

We've been through this, it's not worth spending the money to get a refund and I don't trust you or your lawyer with my identity. 

Not sure if this was clear but with "you" I was talking about gigavps, not you vrtrasura. And by refund I mean without going through the claim hassle (what would it be needed for if there's no business relation).
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!