BTCFPGA bASIC updated from 54GH/s to 72HG/s

[SLok]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

How much room? I thought they can go to 200% but people say they are already overclocked.

We will find out, but after delivery probably, by firmware update or whatever is used for it. They just don't want anything to stand in the way of getting the asic out the door asap. What a merry-go-round we're in. The "in theory capable of 16Gh/s" comes from the article in Bitcoin Magazine nov. 4th edition.

[beekeeper]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

How much room? I thought they can go to 200% but people say they are already overclocked.

We will find out, but after delivery probably, by firmware update or whatever is used for it. They just don't want anything to stand in the way of getting the asic out the door asap. What a merry-go-round we're in. The "in theory capable of 16Gh/s" comes from the article in Bitcoin Magazine nov. 4th edition.

Man, I totally agree with you, except one point, I need to buy more ASIC, atleast for next month until I shift, its gamble right now, God knows I don't gamble..

[PuertoLibre]

BFL already overclock the asics.
If they overclock to the maximum, the singles will do 8*10 GH/s=80 GH/s.
Not all asic chips will achieve that speed and I don't think they will last long.
Despite the smaller manufacturing proces they use, BFL asics seems to run slower per chip.
BFL chips are full custom made, I think they have plenty of room to optimize teir design at the next batch.
Cablepair is using already proven and optimize design technique. I don't think Cablepair has much room left to clock their chips higher if they want their chips to be reliable.
I think he will switch to a smaller proces at the next batch to stay competive.
Just my humble opinion.

Somehow, based on my experience, I think the same, but Inaba seems overconfident in last posts, I guess they might already got their "last version" of their chip, test it already and proved it qualifies.

The question is, is the company over confident in a good way or a bad way?

They might choose a route where they take a hit in profit to provide extra hardware.
They might choose a route where they over clock their chips to their maximum rating and thereby increase RMA returns in March. ($$$ lost)
They might choose a route where they give away relatively cheap nick knacks...but this is unlikely to make most customers happy.

They might choose to upgrade their second batch and have an upgrade program (very likely and is the cheaper option). (Aka the 30, 60, 90 program?)

They might choose to offer a second device to cover the difference. (Possible, but cost ineffective)

etc.

Talking big in an overconfident tone might keep their customers around. (That's what real Vendors do anyway!) It may also just as well signal that they have no painless plan in place and need to talk big to cover for that inability.

One guy on their forums is about to switch his investments from BFL to bASIC at a cost to BFL of 8,000 dollars.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/427-basic-33%25-hashrate-increase-3.html#post5999

BFL is also now deleting threads from customers with content which is not unexpected nor even offensive considering they invested in the company as a paying customer. I just left a thread open in my browser this morning  and refreshed it....poof, it is gone.

The censoring has apparently begun on their forums (IMO).

[SLok]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

How much room? I thought they can go to 200% but people say they are already overclocked.

We will find out, but after delivery probably, by firmware update or whatever is used for it. They just don't want anything to stand in the way of getting the asic out the door asap. What a merry-go-round we're in. The "in theory capable of 16Gh/s" comes from the article in Bitcoin Magazine nov. 4th edition.

Man, I totally agree with you, except one point, I need to buy more ASIC, atleast for next month until I shift, its gamble right now, God knows I don't gamble..

Give it another week or 2, won't matter much for the delivery date of those I think. Only be quick once one of them starts delivering, hell will break loose.

[beekeeper]

Somehow, based on my experience, I think the same, but Inaba seems overconfident in last posts, I guess they might already got their "last version" of their chip, test it already and proved it qualifies.

BFL is also now deleting threads from customers with content which is not unexpected nor even offensive considering they invested in the company as a paying customer. I just left a thread open in my browser this morning  and refreshed it....poof, it is gone.

The censoring has apparently begun on their forums (IMO).

I know.. weeks ago I got deleted on butterfly forums when I asked if they re-spin.. I'm an Engineer specialized in this field, I can understand, mostly, the big picture. 65nm and full custom asic is difficult for a small company.. difficulty can be described mathematically.. Ofc BFL can be plaint lucky, but from customer POV it is gambling despite what they say.. I need to cover one - two months of gap, I need to buy something, I will use my skill to discriminate..

[Syke]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

Increasing the clock speed is the surest way to lose their power efficency advantage.

[Meatball]

Overclocking a video card that's $200 and you have a huge amount of previous overclocking information from other people at your disposal is one thing.  Overclocking a few thousand dollars ASIC rig that noone has any idea how it'll handle that short or long term is a whole different ballgame.

[PuertoLibre]

Overclocking a video card that's $200 and you have a huge amount of previous overclocking information from other people at your disposal is one thing.  Overclocking a few thousand dollars ASIC rig that noone has any idea how it'll handle that short or long term is a whole different ballgame.

I agree, they should just do a batch revision in the interim after shipping what they now have and then offer an upgrade for people who bought the 60. Maybe upgrade them to 80 or 90 and then resell the 60's to other customers as a separate SKU.

It would suck to get a rig and one month later end up with a dead chip(s). That would be pretty hard to fix and there would be almost no workaround for that. (RMA's and the confidence hit wouldn't be worth it)

[fatman01923]

Man this is good news for me, I really don't mind if it delays slightly again but I hope before 2013 arrives.
For me getting the ASICs before the 25 BTC drop was never really a concern, I simply love the idea of
helping to produce an economy that's much different than what is currently available in this world.  I
hope the enthusiasm with the currency can stay positive until the big mainstream adoption. 

[buzzdave]

The smaller unit is upgraded from 6 asic chips in a cluster to 8 asic chips for a total of 8*4.5 GH/s=36 GH/s
The bigger unit has 2 clusters of 8 asic chips. 2*8*4.5 GH/s=72 GH/s

Each BTCFPGA asic chip can do a maximum of 14 GH/s, but it won't last long at that speed.
6 chips per cluster are more difficult to implement than 8 chips per cluster.
I personnally think that they took the advice of the board designing company to change it to a 8 cluster or 2*8 cluster board.
Cablepair has already say that he is hiring one of the best board designing company to do the job.
In my humble opinion, I think they will have a greater chance to deliver on time if they go for the 8 chips per cluster board instead the 6 chips per cluster board.
But who am I?
Only time will tell.

Pulling from page 1, because this is exactly what I was told (I added bold emphasis)

[SLok]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

Increasing the clock speed is the surest way to lose their power efficiency advantage.

I wouldn't mind if it takes 80 or 100 Watt instead of 60, if performance rises accordingly. It would still be on top.

[mightycount]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

How much room? I thought they can go to 200% but people say they are already overclocked.

Giving a lifetime warranty on a highly overclocked chip would be quite a gamble IMO. And since BFL does give a lifetime warranty for the boards, they must be pretty sure it can run non-stop for at least a year.

[MrTeal]

Actually, bfl under-clocks the chips, in theory they can run at 16Gh/s, but stability and life expectancy would suffer. Just as btcfpga said for their chips btw. There is room for overclocking for sure.

How much room? I thought they can go to 200% but people say they are already overclocked.

Giving a lifetime warranty on a highly overclocked chip would be quite a gamble IMO. And since BFL does give a lifetime warranty for the boards, they must be pretty sure it can run non-stop for at least a year.

From the BFL FAQ...

The PCB (The board that the ASIC chips are mounted on) carry a lifetime warranty. Lifetime is defined as the length of time we are manufacturing that product. Once we stop manufacturing that particular product, we will not be able to warranty the product any longer, since we no longer have replacement stock.

The rest of the components (Fan, power supply, case, heatsink, basically everything that is NOT the PCB) carries a 1 year warranty from date of shipment to the end user.

In all cases, warranties will be a minimum of 1 year from the date of shipment. For example, if you happen to buy a BFL product that happens to be near EOL (End Of Life) and the following month we come out with a new product and stop manufacturing the product you just bought, we will honor the warranty for a 1 year from the time your product was shipped.

I would say that you cannot count on a warranty of any longer than 1 year. There's a pretty decent chance we might be in ASIC gen 2 a year from when BFL ships, and there's no real point in continuing the existing line once the next gen is ready.

[bitboyben]

I would say that you cannot count on a warranty of any longer than 1 year. There's a pretty decent chance we might be in ASIC gen 2 a year from when BFL ships, and there's no real point in continuing the existing line once the next gen is ready.

At which point you'll get your warranty filled and you can trade it in for gen 2.

[Shadow383]

I'd rather have 54Gh/s three weeks before BFL ships than 72Gh/s three weeks after 

Still, any potential hashrate bump is a good thing, and these would be profitable at 1 billion difficulty so 

[MrTeal]

I would say that you cannot count on a warranty of any longer than 1 year. There's a pretty decent chance we might be in ASIC gen 2 a year from when BFL ships, and there's no real point in continuing the existing line once the next gen is ready.

At which point you'll get your warranty filled and you can trade it in for gen 2.

Do you have a link for that? I asked for clarification in the BFL FAQ about the warranty, but given the current wording it sounds like if the Gen1 Single SC isn't produced anymore and it's past one year the warranty won't be honored.

ASIC Gen 2 isn't going to be like the transition from FPGA to ASIC; it's likely not going to be a mandatory upgrade.

[bitboyben]

I would say that you cannot count on a warranty of any longer than 1 year. There's a pretty decent chance we might be in ASIC gen 2 a year from when BFL ships, and there's no real point in continuing the existing line once the next gen is ready.

At which point you'll get your warranty filled and you can trade it in for gen 2.

Do you have a link for that? I asked for clarification in the BFL FAQ about the warranty, but given the current wording it sounds like if the Gen1 Single SC isn't produced anymore and it's past one year the warranty won't be honored.

ASIC Gen 2 isn't going to be like the transition from FPGA to ASIC; it's likely not going to be a mandatory upgrade.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/121-asic-products-will-carry-lifetime-warranty.html

You must have seen this...
and yes I agree that gen 2 won't be earth shattering either.

[MrTeal]

I would say that you cannot count on a warranty of any longer than 1 year. There's a pretty decent chance we might be in ASIC gen 2 a year from when BFL ships, and there's no real point in continuing the existing line once the next gen is ready.

At which point you'll get your warranty filled and you can trade it in for gen 2.

Do you have a link for that? I asked for clarification in the BFL FAQ about the warranty, but given the current wording it sounds like if the Gen1 Single SC isn't produced anymore and it's past one year the warranty won't be honored.

ASIC Gen 2 isn't going to be like the transition from FPGA to ASIC; it's likely not going to be a mandatory upgrade.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/121-asic-products-will-carry-lifetime-warranty.html

You must have seen this...
and yes I agree that gen 2 won't be earth shattering either.

Did you read the quote I posted, from here? It was added by Josh a month after the initial announcement. This is the important part.

The PCB (The board that the ASIC chips are mounted on) carry a lifetime warranty. Lifetime is defined as the length of time we are manufacturing that product. Once we stop manufacturing that particular product, we will not be able to warranty the product any longer, since we no longer have replacement stock.

The first FPGA Singles hit the wild 9 months ago, and they now haven't been produced in almost a month. The SC Singles could be in production 50% longer and still the lifetime warranty would effectively be 1 year.

[kano]

... actually I'd expect Gen2 to be a reasonable leap from Gen1
Gen1 is each companies first attempt at ASIC BTC mining ...
Though some of that leap may happen with the Gen1 hardware after release.

[MrTeal]

... actually I'd expect Gen2 to be a reasonable leap from Gen1
Gen1 is each companies first attempt at ASIC BTC mining ...
Though some of that leap may happen with the Gen1 hardware after release.

I'd agree with that, though it would depend what you consider reasonable. I'd say something along the lines of twice the performance per dollar compared to whatever Gen1 is selling for at the time would be pretty stellar.