F2Pool is directly threatening Bitcoin's future

[philipma1957]

Guys f2pool has said he will effort less empty blocks.

lets see if antpool does the same.

if both pools do it  it is a big deal.

It will take a week to clock blocks to be pretty sure if the effort is legit.

I respect f2pool for saying he is making the effort.

Lets remember we are sharing a golden goose here.  lets not tear it apart.

If both antpool and f2pool reduce the empty blocks by 50% over the next week it is a start in a good direction.

Even if they are doing it by flipping a switch SPV on odd days no SPV on even days.  

It is a push to help rather then a fuck you attitude.  

 While not prefect it would greatly reduce the problem If they just did that simple move.

[1714245907]

1714245907

[1714245907]

1714245907

[1714245907]

1714245907

[kilo17]

This may sound like an ignorant question, but can someone actually explain this in simple terms.  I have a descent grasp on it but I still do not completely understand and I have a descent size home farm.  I did see where a new guy asked on the first page of the thread for a simplified explanation. 

I think that educating the miners could also be beneficial, I tend to stay on the smaller pools for some of the reasons mentioned but would still appreciate it if someone could just lay this out as simple as possible. Maybe Kano or Philipma

Thanks in advance....

[kano]

I've explained a bit here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1274066.msg13151453#msg13151453

[Laviathon]

That's interesting.  I still don't understand why so many people like that pool other than constant finds.

[-ck]

More transaction blocks is a very good start and it's most welcome. However SPV blocks are, by their nature, unverified blocks and can lead to invalid forks running away. Admittedly only the pools stuck on the invalid side of the fork are affected, but since more than 50% of the pools out there are SPV mining on initial block change, the bulk of the hashrate could be going the wrong way for a while before it's recognised.

[kilo17]

I've explained a bit here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1274066.msg13151453#msg13151453

Thanks for the link

[philipma1957]

That's interesting.  I still don't understand why so many people like that pool other than constant finds.

A constant reliable daily payout is a big thing if you are running a lot of hash.

The power bill is constant say 1040 usd a month if you are running  12 s-7's

To be able to know you are going to be paid every day makes it easy to pay your maintenance costs.

Or I can't call my power company and Ask could you wait until I hit the next block to pay you?

I run 3 s-7's and 2 avalon 6's

  I use  5600watts  or 5.6 kwatts x 24 x 30 x .10 = 403.20 usd a month for power.   A steady payout of 0.13 btc a day makes for easy planing.

No variance and variance happens more often then you may like.

[jonnybravo0311]

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain.  None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks.  It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

[os2sam]

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

How full/non empty were they?

[macbook-air]

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain.  None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks.  It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

We have two empty blocks in the past few hours. Investigation has revealed that:

For block 388239, which was found at 23:23:45Z, was due to the previous block by AntPool failed to send out their block in time. Our nodes did not receive the complete block data of 388238 until 17 seconds later, or 23:24:02Z;

For block 388252, which was found at 00:33:02Z, was due to our extreme luck. We found this block only 1 second after the previous block by bitclubpool.

http://poolbench.antminer.link/ has more timing data. You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

[philipma1957]

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain.  None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks.  It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

We have two empty blocks in the past few hours. Investigation has revealed that:

For block 388239, which was found at 23:23:45Z, was due to the previous block by AntPool failed to send out their block in time. Our nodes did not receive the complete block data of 388238 until 17 seconds later, or 23:24:02Z;

For block 388252, which was found at 00:33:02Z, was due to our extreme luck. We found this block only 1 second after the previous block by bitclubpool.

http://poolbench.antminer.link/ has more timing data. You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

You have improved and I for one do appreciate this.  If we can get antpool to follow suit  we could really cut this empties down a lot.

As everyone knows Bitfury may be ready to put 200ph on line over the next 10 days. I need go back to see but I believe they have quite a few empties as it stands now.

With F2pool  and hopefully Antpool reducing empties any Bitfury problems will be lessened.

We really will all need to pull together as the ½ ing is coming price of coins will need to be over 600usd for many miners to stay in the game. So a ton of infighting between all the pools miners and developers will not help price.

[p3yot33at3r]

You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

An SPV pool blaming another SPV pool for it's empty nlocks.......

[MCHouston]

I am already there, I do not mine on any pool that is over 10% of network hash rate. Remember this is supposed to be decentralized, if we all jump on the same pool that is centralized.

[iglasses]

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

[philipma1957]

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

And this is why a working consensus that is followed by  everyone (ideal)  is important or it crumbles.

[kano]

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it

[iglasses]

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it

I'm quite familiar with it.  It's not my fault if you are so blinded by rage you are unable (or unwilling) to get what I meant.

And for the record I am actually SOLO mining right now, with almost no hope of finding a block.  So you could say that I am doing more to purely support the network than most people (unless you know a lot of other people burning 15kw for nothing)!

[kano]

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it

I'm quite familiar with it.  It's not my fault if you are so blinded by rage you are unable (or unwilling) to get what I meant.

Rage? Zero.

Your statement is simply a Bitcoin 101 statement that clearly too few people realise including f2pool

[iglasses]

Please feel free to delete my posts since they don't fit your agenda.

[kano]

Please feel free to delete my posts since they don't fit your agenda.

Lulz - only you can do that