Shorena - To -ve reped and removed from default trust

[node.jps]

Shorena gave me negative trust for advertising a "ponzi" "knowingly" , who gave him the power to decide on wether or not people should have a bad reputation around here, where was God Shorena when that cloudmining website signature thing was happening? no-where , you know why? because if he tackled that campaign, he knew he was punching above his weight, so when doublebot pops up, he thinks its his chance,
I dont understand this person's way of thinking, he did virtually the same thing about a year ago but people on default trust are too scared to tag him
these are his points in why he is allowed to advertise a scam but other members arent allowed to because of their unworthiness (shorena thinks he is god)

I will post my arguments here.

I had coins invested with dicebitco.in and was able to completly divest and withdraw. people gamble on doublebot everyday, no-one had had any issues
Manl and Gerry paid out everyone (to my knowledge) that lost coins. everyone is getting paid at double bot
Those that have not been paid out are those that won coins. I think that is acceptable as they have more than they had before the incident and thus did not lose anything. While you can argue that the rolls are deterministic the gamblers are not, thus it makes no sense to argue in hindsight if and what they players would have risked would the nounces not have been skipped.
OH, they were scammed, but not scammed enough?


I agreed to wear their signature for a months and I will honor my agreement. so will I

I can see that you and other DT members have "double standards"

https://i.imgflip.com/vp2ru.jpg

[Quickseller]

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

edit: congrats to Shorena for having one of these threads opened by a scammer about him

[node.jps]

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

[Quickseller]

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

Yes, I am intimidated by Shorena. He is a mighty fighting keyboard warrior /s

[EcuaMobi]

OP so your point is that because you promote an obvious scam then shorena should receive negative trust and be removed from DT?

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

What scam exactly did shorena promote?

[node.jps]

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

Yes, I am intimidated by Shorena. He is a mighty fighting keyboard warrior /s

Can you stop joking, this is a serious matter, you give me negative trust for doing the same  thing shorena did but you didnt even drop a neutral on shorena's page, on a serious level, why not put a rating on his page?

OP so your point is that because you promote an obvious scam then shorena should receive negative trust and be removed from DT?

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

What scam exactly did shorena promote?

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

[Lauda]

The only outcome that I see here is that you attract more attention to yourself and get more negative ratings. The trust rating is working as intended. You do realize OP that anyone is allowed to give you a negative if they don't trust you for any reason whatsoever?

He is a mighty fighting keyboard warrior /s

Seems like the forum is full of mighty creations; we have wariors, a god, etc.

[node.jps]

The only outcome that I see here is that you attract more attention to yourself and get more negative ratings. The trust rating is working as intended. You do realize OP that anyone is allowed to give you a negative if they don't trust you for any reason whatsoever?

He is a mighty fighting keyboard warrior /s

Seems like the forum is full of mighty creations; we have wariors, a god, etc.

It doesnt matter if i attract more attention to myself, if they give me negative rating, it would be only fair to give shorena the same as he did the same thing

[Quickseller]

What scam exactly did shorena promote?

In 2014, he was wearing the signature of dicebitco.in (as part of a signature campaign) even after it was discovered to be skipping nonces on a select number of user's rolls, and after it was alleged that they were using knowledge of the server seed to win large amounts of BTC of investor money.

Dicebitco.in was able to attract a lot of reputation because dooglus was endorsing it with his signature, being a moderator of their chat, publicly playing there and publicly investing several hundred BTC there, and he only withdrew his coins from the site hours before it was revealed that they were skipping nonces.

[EcuaMobi]

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

[redsn0w]

What scam exactly did shorena promote?

In 2014, he was wearing the signature of dicebitco.in (as part of a signature campaign) even after it was discovered to be skipping nonces on a select number of user's rolls, and after it was alleged that they were using knowledge of the server seed to win large amounts of BTC of investor money.

Dicebitco.in was able to attract a lot of reputation because dooglus was endorsing it with his signature, being a moderator of their chat, publicly playing there and publicly investing several hundred BTC there, and he only withdrew his coins from the site hours before it was revealed that they were skipping nonces.

A lot of users were wearing dicebitco.in signature but before that it has been revealed 'scam' dice site.

[node.jps]

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

this sounds fair

User Profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=355700

The discussion starts around here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=716312.msg8715769#msg8715769   

Basic summary: A two part scam

Website was caught skipping nonces to rig rolls.  This would in effect allow them to maintain a 1% house edge profit for investors, thus attract more and more investments while allowing them to still skim the site investors of all legitimate profits made. Individual users such as stars have told me that they are owed 50+ coins.

Their defense:

They claim that a new rogue developer they hired was rigging the rolls to scam them but around 2 days before the incident there is proof of them saying that the only people involved are the original two: https://i.imgur.com/SJvuc1Q.png  (refutes their argument)

Example of one of the scams:

User stars was scammed 60+ coins according to Dooglus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=716312.msg8721251#msg8721251



As a result of this around 4000-5000 coins have already been divested. 100s of coins are owed to people who placed wagers. They still appear to be honoring divestments though so I recommend divesting your funds for the time being.


Update 1: chat on dicebitcoin is now disabled and they are refusing to return a lot of owed funds.

Since this thread is used to give me negative trust by

Ah, trade fortress, the beacon of morality 

I will post my arguments here.
~~snip~~

I agreed to wear their signature for a months and I will honor my agreement.

ok, you can add the negative to his profile now

[shorena]

#1 this should be in reputation.

#2 thanks quickseller

#3 thanks for giving me a chance to answer to the PM:

I'm gonna get paid from the doublebot signature campaign, who made you god to -ve rep me?
what about a few months ago when that cloudmining ponzi had their campaign, i didnt see you giving out -ve rep

Thanks for reminding me. Now if you want to be taken seriously you should change your tone. I am no god and I cant be everywhere. Feel free to PM me again if you are interested in a serious conversation.

-Sho

ok you -ve reped me although i didnt get paid, ok, i see how this works

No, the negativ rating is for promoting a ponzi. I will remove it if you remove the signature before you get paid. You probably just misread that.

#4 Again, I am not a God and I never claimed to be one. If you want to worship me, fine. I will probably not listen to your prayers though.

#5 The person that put me in this position is BadBear.

#6 I cant and I wont be able to go against all scams. Argueing why I dont go against something else you consider a scam is not helping you in discussion. Its not relevant. If you think there are known scams that needs tagging from someone from default trust. There is a section for that -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0 Since people lately start to make the section a pain, I suggest you read this in advance -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260073.0

#7 My advertising for dicebitco.in has been explained at length. I might have been wrong about them, but to my knowledge they paid out everyone and closed shop. You might also notice that I still wear the rating I got for it.

#8 When I had doubt about a casino I advertised for I left the campaign and waived payment. They turned out to be honest.


@EcuaMobi: Yes I kept wearing the signature after it turned out they skipped nonces. The full story is that they also repaid those affected by skipped nonces. Firstly only those that lost, but later everyone else. The story was that they hired a 3rd person that patched in the skipped nonces, did a mistakes as they did not review the code before it went live. I can look up the relevant threads later if you want.

[siameze]

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

I feel Shorena is quite within his rights to leave negative trust, and newer members of the forum should be warned about sites like this so I applaud him ( and EcuaMobi for the above quoted ref).

There is always a loser on ponzi and "doubling" sites. While it is permitted to advertise such sites here on the forum, why is it surprising that people that care about integrity give you negative feedback?

[node.jps]

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

further evidence here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778953.0;all
his name was listed which proves he was still participating

[EcuaMobi]

There is always a loser on ponzi and "doubling" sites. While it is permitted to advertise such sites here on the forum, why is it surprising that people that care about integrity give you negative feedback?

If a site promotes itself as ponzi and lets users know there's a big risk then I wouldn't say it's an obvious scam. It's doubtful and it's arguably untrustworthy but not an obvious scam. Promoting itself as "100% guaranteed" is definitely a scam.

@EcuaMobi: Yes I kept wearing the signature after it turned out they skipped nonces. The full story is that they also repaid those affected by skipped nonces. Firstly only those that lost, but later everyone else. The story was that they hired a 3rd person that patched in the skipped nonces, did a mistakes as they did not review the code before it went live. I can look up the relevant threads later if you want.

So you promoted it only when (at least you thought) it was just an error they were making and not and obvious scam? Yes I'd appreciate having the relevant threads please, it will save me some time.

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

further evidence here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778953.0;all
his name was listed which proves he was still participating

I know he was participating. What I don't know yet is if at that time it was an obvious scam or not.

[node.jps]

#1 this should be in reputation. no, has to do with default trust

#2 thanks quickseller for what? disregarding evidence and picking sides?

#3 thanks for giving me a chance to answer to the PM: you're welcome, i'm a pretty fair guy

No, the negativ rating is for promoting a ponzi. I will remove it if you remove the signature before you get paid. You probably just misread that. you didnt remove yours when you were promoting that scam, you waited for the money, why should I ?

#4 Again, I am not a God and I never claimed to be one. If you want to worship me, fine. I will probably not listen to your prayers though.

#5 The person that put me in this position is BadBear.

#6 I cant and I wont be able to go against all scams. Argueing why I dont go against something else you consider a scam is not helping you in discussion. Its not relevant. If you think there are known scams that needs tagging from someone from default trust. ~snip~
its not considered a scam, it is a scam

#7 My advertising for dicebitco.in has been explained at length. I might have been wrong about them, but to my knowledge they paid out everyone and closed shop. You might also notice that I still wear the rating I got for it. wrong

#8 When I had doubt about a casino I advertised for I left the campaign and waived payment. They turned out to be honest.
oh, when you have doubts you leave, but when its a proven scam you stay?


@EcuaMobi: Yes I kept wearing the signature after it turned out they skipped nonces. The full story is that they also repaid those affected by skipped nonces. Firstly only those that lost, but later everyone else. The story was that they hired a 3rd person that patched in the skipped nonces, did a mistakes as they did not review the code before it went live. I can look up the relevant threads later if you want.

@EcuaMobi as you said a few posts up, im waiting for you to -ve him

[siameze]

Everyone makes mistakes though. If someone stops promoting obvious scams and no longer promotes or wears their signatures then I peronally wouldn't give them negative trust.

Shorena contributes in many positive ways to the forum, so I see this as OP grasping at straws. 

[node.jps]

There is always a loser on ponzi and "doubling" sites. While it is permitted to advertise such sites here on the forum, why is it surprising that people that care about integrity give you negative feedback?

If a site promotes itself as ponzi and lets users know there's a big risk then I wouldn't say it's an obvious scam. It's doubtful and it's arguably untrustworthy but not an obvious scam. Promoting itself as "100% guaranteed" is definitely a scam.

@EcuaMobi: Yes I kept wearing the signature after it turned out they skipped nonces. The full story is that they also repaid those affected by skipped nonces. Firstly only those that lost, but later everyone else. The story was that they hired a 3rd person that patched in the skipped nonces, did a mistakes as they did not review the code before it went live. I can look up the relevant threads later if you want.

So you promoted it only when (at least you thought) it was just an error they were making and not and obvious scam? Yes I'd appreciate having the relevant threads please, it will save me some time.

this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774120.0

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

further evidence here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778953.0;all
his name was listed which proves he was still participating

I know he was participating. What I don't know yet is if at that time it was an obvious scam or not.

It was an obvious scam, the thread listed was only for those left in the campaign after it was discovered to be a scam

tldr: no more signups will be accepted - this thread is only for me to pay out the escrowed coins I have for this month's campaign

This thread continues from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776227

The story so far:

dicebitco.in escrowed 5 BTC with bitcoininformation and 5 BTC with me to cover their signature campaign for September.

About a week in to September their site was found to be cheating some players, and everything blew up.

Many suspect them of being scammers, they claim the cheat was put in place by a rogue employee.

They asked bitcoininformation and I to pay out this month's campaign.

Yesterday bitcoininformation paid out all coins due for the first 10 days of the campaign, using up most of the 5 BTC he was holding. He sent me the rest, and I will use that to pay out remaining coins owed at the end of the month.

Here's a list of everyone who is still participating in the campaign. If you're not in the list but think you should be, please let me know. Also, if you rank up, let me know that too.

Username	Posts at start	Posts at 1st payment	Rank	Bitcoin Address
-----------------	-------------------	----------------------------	------------	-------------------
Mr.Bitty	124	156	Full	1GNY8KMoYSf1XD5PdnJhT3XsH1vtwNiv1G
dankkk	123	191	Full	189ZeVvKf9rd9mEgJxUwLU7FcEjqsxDA64
onlinepro	1012	1038	Full	1QB4LSqVVr2SnYmAaQBfdzCZKrgTTuAWA3
zorke	283	288	Full	1DbFjzSZtQ1yUphyXa6zkLnxNoNkhMwiGi
Gianluca95	1030	1061	Full	13fF2Hsqbq6k5ouRMzoodvC5vRCMDf6dXV
cookiemonsterwhat	457	561	Full	1CtoaU2QcGos2396NA5zvLxJAnBF4GNEaR
deisik	6293	6359	Senior	1NBY6GbirSZuW7CaWQSgB6AwtHW2Fe1uqc
shorena	1805	1932	Senior	1nwD3Zs5EdxBmu3TBxj4Ti5TpTGAEDJ2f
umair127	1260	1299	Senior	19FLPc1RvfbBAmWfSQ3s4ZjQXr7uH6ScLf
sana8410	1849	1903	Senior	15Bkkqp6CQzonuDkArzkmuMVd34DWfx8bK
noviapriani	1207	1245	Senior	1DdLNtqfpMCyUTj4A1yQsxpuPdfjVf6brq
wasserman99	733	808	Senior	12sCophG49cXCr1xrCUHoRUB7gRs7HLpBH
lucolo	1247	1388	Senior	1BHidJUxZPr5ZWq5vLdxZf8bdBCZrpeaHd
Swordsoffreedom	2673	2682	Senior	1K1WUEbAhsR3D9GAeW5G3ALSVMkYLr68ve
Rigon	1256	1300	Senior	1EnaKAbDuDDXUzr365Hx8xT3Rbkkkn3hAK
leannemckim46	274	341	Senior	1EWuSykkvypnyCmdBQ36p1USY4rtSpSWg4
LastRoby	475	599	Senior	13GPLr3QwaCSA3x7uv9PfaeGQVby4riZR2
kuroman	1871	1877	Senior	13TQEgpS1ENz76HGTwSFh8Xv6oqdvqdrRV
Echoes	2428	2488	Hero	1Mcpe26uh5yMPr8DH917XWrEjQRSEXLcyA
WhiteShum	2340	2379	Hero	1FAjmDqYXEBiHBXZNE6aRoFrzTG37qyiXd
InwardContour	985	1048	Senior	1GEuSxAEMrGo1xA6LtpJ218YuX3G6ZHure
fox19891989	1601	1648	Senior	1CSq4j189tE6j5fHg3Br9AUuo5PgJ7V9oj
bittaitaliana	1357	1394	Senior	1PNAZe5nLgnHpiXALV7Ev4FuGUUEs5UGGM
thecoinjournal	2913	2973	Senior	1FBYbiTeoPfS9Z9sT6XtiCKNAH4JwoiGBH
naphto	1715	1714	Senior	1NLXkBBHdv36RwTMEUwUfXMtqVWCADiq48
asdlolciterquit	1313	1411	Senior	19pUh8un8rtPZoLYXpp9cQbn99Ay5u7NE
szmarco	596	615	Senior	1978915zZ8PQAoHQdxJbJ9oeHyzUGeXvBW
ChuckBuck	1953	2001	Senior	1CwmksPZUfZbEh7efyzpueF8rBnHm99DFa
johncarpe64	272	331	Senior	1CEmkomAxZhHr7z2d8vndYUm4nAkrdTG55

Removed:

Username	Posts at start	Posts at 1st payment	Rank	Reason
-----------------	-------------------	----------------------------	------------	-------------------
hdbuck	1991	2071	Senior	advertising for multiple campaigns at once (ASICMINER)
dKingston	290	311	Senior	switched to cryptcominer
DebitMe	1136	1384	Hero	switched to fortunejack
DooMAD	477	493	Senior	switched to bitmixer
beetcoin	4499	4623	Senior	blank signature
pedrosoft	485	509	Senior	blank signature
leancuisine	1206	1215	Senior	blank signature
itsaj	470	560	Senior	switched to gawminers
master-P	627	694	Senior	blank signature
Vagnavs	587	597	Hero	switched to  bitmixer

as you can see, he didnt leave the campaign he stayed

[node.jps]

Everyone makes mistakes though. If someone stops promoting obvious scams and no longer promotes or wears their signatures then I peronally wouldn't give them negative trust.
~snip~

OK, everyone makes mistakes.... but, when its some-one like shorena nothing gets done, he didnt stop and he wasnt given negative trust