If you're hoping for economic disaster to raise price, then you're not a "bull"

[ElectricMucus]

TERA, I'm not sure if you are aware of Christan fundamentalism in the United States and it's role in conservative and libertarian ideology.

There is a huge sub-culture which is essentially a doomsday cult inspired by the biblical Armageddon. The point here is that some large fraction of that cult doesn't take the text literally, instead they look for alternative "modern day" equivalents. This is especially the case with Libertarians who might not even admit to or be consciously aware of their religiously and culturally influenced bias.
You are probably aware of Zero "Batshit Insane" Hedge who has been doing what TV-Evangelists do only for financial collapse which will surely happen next Tuesday.

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[TERA]

I think most people who follow this just get a thrill out of this sort of thing because their life isn't exciting enough and they've seen too many movies, or they have personal issues in which they feel hopeless of ever having a good career.

[MonadTran]

1. Depending on how it plays out,  it's not guaranteed that the price will rise. It might collapse instead.

I am fairly certain it is going to rise in the currency collapse scenario.

Restricting it to this one use case of capital flight is pretty narrow minded and an insult to bitcoin. A real bull would want bitcoin to succeed in its own merits.

Yeah, yeah. I do want it to succeed on its own merits, and I also want my dollar collapse.

3. The price would be much higher if bitcoin went mainstream in a thriving economy with government approval, rather than a negative environment with no spending and only storage. Things would be growing,  and money would circulate hundreds of times faster.

I see government collapse as an extremely positive scenario for the economy, longer term. This is based on my experience surviving the collapse of the USSR.
Economies don't thrive with government approval, they thrive despite of the government.

4. In the case of hyperinflation, the prices of goods is rising in tandem with the bitcoin rise and your actual wealth in terms of what goods you can buy isn't rising as much,  if there is even a supply at all.  Meanwhile your neighbors are suffering and starving.  Heck,  you might just starve too.

This would be very unfortunate, yes. However, it is also inevitable, and the sooner it happens, the less suffering it is going to inflict on the people.

5. You want to live in a negative and harsh world,  where everyone is unhappy and there isn't even anything fun to spend your coins on... If you can even find places to spend them because they're probably illegal. Nobodies quality of life is going up,  not even yours.  For any advantage due to your bitcoin wealth,  there is an equal and opposite disadvantage.

Nope, I have no intention of staying in a collapsing country. I'll find a place where it's going to be relatively calm.

6. If people get wind of your wealth,  they will hate you and your life is in danger.  

True, so I won't be showing off too much, and would find a hobby which benefits my local community.

7. You literally want billions of people to suffer just so you can make a profit.  You're just like the capitalist pigs and the government and are against all the values that bitcoin stands for.  You are despicable.

"Capitalist pig" is a compliment. It means I am non-violent, and one with nature.
No, I do not want any people to suffer, but that is irrelevant. The people are going to suffer regardless, and the sooner this government Ponzi collapses, the sooner they switch to Bitcoin, the less they are going to suffer.

[Wexlike]

3. The price would be much higher if bitcoin went mainstream in a thriving economy with government approval, rather than a negative environment with no spending and only storage. Things would be growing,  and money would circulate hundreds of times faster.

Yeah, sure. With 1 MB blocks ? Bitcoin is not ready for prime time (yet).

[jaredboice]

The original post is a false premise.  You can't get rid of the Zionist, slave plantation status quo without collapsing the status quo.  Does anyone like the status quo?  No, not really.

+1 Trillion

[r0ach]

Yeah, sure. With 1 MB blocks ? Bitcoin is not ready for prime time (yet).

For scalability, it doesn't matter if the collapse happened tomorrow, there's such a thing called off-chain transactions.  Bitcoin would just be integrated with things like the debit card system with the quickness, then a year or two down the road, things like the Lightning Network, Bitcoin-NG, etc, would solve the rest of those problems where off-chain transactions aren't needed.

[spiderbrain]

Thanks, nice post! I'm not hoping for things, just trying to tell which way the wind is blowing and planning accordingly. More specifically:

1. Depending on how it plays out,  it's not guaranteed that the price will rise. It might collapse instead.

Yup, maybe. I have a FAZ hedge for that.

2. Bitcoin is a high tech payment network with hundreds of use cases.  Restricting it to this one use case of capital flight is pretty narrow minded and an insult to bitcoin. A real bull would want bitcoin to succeed in its own merits.

I don't want it to be restricted, but that seems to be the dominant use driving the price at the moment. It's certainly not suited to ubiquitous micro-payments in its current form.

3. The price would be much higher if bitcoin went mainstream in a thriving economy with government approval, rather than a negative environment with no spending and only storage. Things would be growing,  and money would circulate hundreds of times faster.

Indeed. I'm not actually that concerned about the price, I'm just more relaxed about money since owning bitcoin, especially since the global banking system has been bankrupt since 2008, if not long before. Since we're talking about "hope", I do hope that open source money helps the world economy start to actually recover, rather than just looking like it's growing through governments rapidly printing money and pumping up the share price of failed businesses. But hope is cheap

4. In the case of hyperinflation, the prices of goods is rising in tandem with the bitcoin rise and your actual wealth in terms of what goods you can buy isn't rising as much,  if there is even a supply at all.  Meanwhile your neighbors are suffering and starving.  Heck,  you might just starve too.

During periods of hyperinflation money actually flows to assets and goods which keep their value, so demand for bitcoin would probably go up and it's value relative to assets would probably rise quite a bit. I guess we'll find out at some point whether this actually happens or not. I also have a hedge of growing vegetables, which aren't particularly influenced by markets. Hopefully I can offer my neighbours tasty soup.

5. You want to live in a negative and harsh world,  where everyone is unhappy and there isn't even anything fun to spend your coins on... If you can even find places to spend them because they're probably illegal. Nobodies quality of life is going up,  not even yours.  For any advantage due to your bitcoin wealth,  there is an equal and opposite disadvantage.

I this a paraphrased quote from the book of revelations?

6. If people get wind of your wealth,  they will hate you and your life is in danger. 

Yeah, look at all those billionaire bankers getting lynched! Or, sorry, no, they're just fine.

7. You literally want billions of people to suffer just so you can make a profit.  You're just like the capitalist pigs and the government and are against all the values that bitcoin stands for.  You are despicable.

Yup, people actually longing for disaster to profit should really just get a job at Goldman Sachs and do it professionally. Planning for the inevitable is fair, though, eh?

Go hope for something more productive because you might just get what you wish for.

I hope you have a love evening, sir!

[jehst]

i'm not sure an economic disaster will raise the price

[keystroke]

If you're hoping for economic disaster, you're probably an asshole.

Or very K-selected.

The current system doesn't work. It is going to collapse, likely starting to come to a head around 2020. The longer it takes the worse it will be, so the sooner it happens the better. Hopes and wants have nothing to do with it, it is simply cause and effect.

Wow, r/K selection theory on bitcointalk.

I got involved in bitcoin because I believed it has the capability to make the world a more free and fair place. That makes it psychologically easy to hold indefinitely.

[jehst]

If you're hoping for economic disaster, you're probably an asshole.

Or very K-selected.

The current system doesn't work. It is going to collapse, likely starting to come to a head around 2020. The longer it takes the worse it will be, so the sooner it happens the better. Hopes and wants have nothing to do with it, it is simply cause and effect.

Wow, r/K selection theory on bitcointalk.

I got involved in bitcoin because I believed it has the capability to make the world a more free and fair place. That makes it psychologically easy to hold indefinitely.

a society led by k-selected individuals is ideal, but we have so many r-folks and single mothers with 8 year old kids who will have a very difficult time in the transition period

[romjpn]

I don't hope for difficult times, I just think that it is likely to happen soon (many red flags everywhere lately). Better save some bitcoins aside.

[r0ach]

The current system doesn't work. It is going to collapse, likely starting to come to a head around 2020

It already did collapse, just takes a while to sink after hitting the iceberg.

[btcxyzzz]

You're forgetting that Bitcoin and it's healthy economy can really shine only if worldwide fiat fraud is demasked in the eyes of regular population, and if it starts shrinking. It's like healthy tissue is eating the cancer of our society and it's sad and hard for majority of population but it seems like financial collapse is needed so we can live better finally... Or maybe, revolution will be slow and last 100 years.

[Amph]

well bitcoin must sucks money from something else, the value increase because many are dumping fiat for bitcoin, this mean that fiat is declining everytime we have a bitoin increase, the depreciation is very small now

you will not notice it, but with a greater marketcap(say in the range of trillions), it will be more evident...but they can always print more fiat, which will only feed bitcoin in the remote case it will be accepted widely, so substantially the governments will feeds bitcoin via printing, it will be fun...

[oda.krell]

[classy post]

I get the sentiment behind your post, OP. The doomsday prepper goldbug antisemites infesting crypto can go suck a fat one in my pretend humble opinion.

spiderbrain's got a point as well though: don't confuse preparing for crisis with wishing for crisis.

Maybe the two ideas are difficult to separate entirely, but you can pretty clearly tell who falls into which camp, even by a cursory glance into this thread.

[conspirosphere.tk]

3. The price would be much higher if bitcoin went mainstream in a thriving economy with government approval, rather than a negative environment with no spending and only storage. Things would be growing,  and money would circulate hundreds of times faster.

If being "mainstream with government approval" were such a good thing, there would be no need of any cryptocoin.

[Mickeyb]

I feel the same way OP! I definitely don't wish for any kind of disaster to happen in order for us to grow! We will all lose much more if any disaster strucks than what we will gain if Bitcoin was to increase in such circumstances!

I mean you can't convert everything you have in Bitcoin. Your possessions, cars, houses, retirement funds, etc. All of this would lose enormously even if you move all of your savings into Bitcoin!

[r0ach]

The doomsday prepper goldbug antisemites infesting crypto can go suck a fat one

You got it backwards far leftist dirtbag.  It is you that needs to stop being racist against Caucasians, Asians, and all others.  Just like when you inflate a stock too much before it explodes, we've reached peaked leftism and your propaganda doesn't work anymore and is coming crashing down.  There is no global problem in banking fraud and media propaganda due to so called "anti-semites".  When you turn on the news at night, there are no stock markets being crashed or wars being created by "anti-semites".  Those problems are caused by an anti-caucasian, anti-asian, anti-everything, ethnocentric, racial supremacist mafia called Zionist Judaism:

The Usual suspects

Robert B. Zoellick(Ashkenazi Jew) – President, The World Bank

Dominique Strauss-Kahn(Ashkenazi Jew) – Managing Director, International Monetary Fund (IMF)

John Lipsky(Ashkenazi Jew) – First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund (IMF)

Janet Yellen(Ashkenazi Jews) – Chairman of the Board of Governors of the U.S. Federal Reserve Banking System.

Lloyd Blankfein: CEO of Goldman Sachs Bank of NY. Goldman Sachs is one of the owners of the Federal Reserve Bank consortium, made up of 8 banks, the House of Rothschild being the principal owner.

Harvey Krueger: Chairman of Lehman Brothers Bank of NY. Lehman Brothers is also one of the owners of the Federal Reserve Bank consortium.

Ben S. Bernanke(Ashkenazi Jew) – Former Chairman of the Board of Governors of the U.S. Federal Reserve Banking System.

William C. Dudley(Ashkenazi Jew) – President and Chief Executive Officer, Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Lee C. Bollinger(Ashkenazi Jew) – Chairman, Board of Directors, Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Fred P. Hochberg (Ashkenazi Jew) – Chairman and President, Export-Import Bank of the United States

...too many more to even list

[oda.krell]

^ You and your antisemitic clown posse really need to learn to distinguish Ashkenazi names with a Germanic root from Christian German names. I mean, it's not as if your theories aren't dumb enough conjecture wise, they're also full of trivial factual details.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^ You and your antisemitic clown posse really need to learn to distinguish Ashkenazi names with a Germanic root from Christian German names. I mean, it's not as if your theories aren't dumb enough conjecture wise, they're also full of trivial factual details.

I'm glad there are people here who can express themselves so sensibly. I was just going to call him an asshole.