Freedom is ...

[Anon136]

a word that has no meaning out side of specific contexts. (i.e. i have the freedom to ____) What you mean to say is liberty not freedom.

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals.

[1715002449]

1715002449

[1715002449]

1715002449

[FirstAscent]

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion but not using the term 'coercion' to apply to paying taxes, levies, fees, rents, tariffs or payments if you are using infrastructure to which those payments apply and not using the term 'coercion' to apply to regulations which prevent uncaring, greedy or ignorant persons and their motives from destroying or negatively affecting others so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals or affecting other individuals in a negative way.

FTFY

[Anon136]

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion but not using the term 'coercion' to apply to paying taxes, levies, fees, rents, tariffs or payments if you are using infrastructure to which those payments apply so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals or affecting other individuals in a negative way.

FTFY

rofl

[FirstAscent]

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion but not using the term 'coercion' to apply to paying taxes, levies, fees, rents, tariffs or payments if you are using infrastructure to which those payments apply so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals or affecting other individuals in a negative way.

FTFY

rofl

But true. I have since edited it further.

[CountSparkle]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.

For causal relationships, there are agreements, understandings, and contracts. Moving on.

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion but not using the term 'coercion' to apply to paying taxes, levies, fees, rents, tariffs or payments if you are using infrastructure to which those payments apply and not using the term 'coercion' to apply to regulations which prevent uncaring, greedy or ignorant persons and their motives from destroying or negatively affecting others so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals or affecting other individuals in a negative way.

FTFY

LOL! Because you say so?

Freedom is... not giving a shit what some power-hungry psychopath says, or whom he wishes would control you.

[FirstAscent]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.

For causal relationships, there are agreements, understandings, and contracts. Moving on.

In general, there are not. You do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you. Do you?

You and 50 of your friends do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you and  50 of your friends. Do you?

50 percent of the world's population does shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of 3.5 billion individuals having a contract with the rest of the world's population. Do you?

so what is liberty? liberty is the *freedom* to pursue your own ends free from coercion but not using the term 'coercion' to apply to paying taxes, levies, fees, rents, tariffs or payments if you are using infrastructure to which those payments apply and not using the term 'coercion' to apply to regulations which prevent uncaring, greedy or ignorant persons and their motives from destroying or negatively affecting others so long as your means are not responsible for coercing other individuals or affecting other individuals in a negative way.

FTFY

LOL! Because you say so?

Freedom is... not giving a shit what some power-hungry psychopath says, or whom he wishes would control you.

You're behaving like an angry and misinformed individual. I feel sorry for you.

[Lethn]

You're behaving like an angry and misinformed individual. I feel sorry for you.

Irony alert

FirstAscent, stop trying to troll and derail threads just because when you are on topic you get your arse kicked in a debate.

[FirstAscent]

You're behaving like an angry and misinformed individual. I feel sorry for you.

Irony alert

FirstAscent, stop trying to troll and derail threads just because when you're on topic you get your arse kicked in a debate.

Lethn, no derailment is occurring here. We're discussing what freedom is, and how one's idea of freedom doesn't measure up. I asked the above fellow three questions. I'm awaiting his answer.

Now tell me this (and I am vary serious). How is it that because you reside in a forum that is mostly a niche crowd, that you feel intelligent when you gang up on the few who don't hold your niche views? Are you not able to hold your own in a debate by yourself? Say, just you and me. Can you do that?

I challenge you to answer the three questions I asked above. Or are you also an angry and misinformed individual?

The anger is evident in this post:

Freedom is... not giving a shit what some power-hungry psychopath says, or whom he wishes would control you.

The misinformed aspect is evident in his malformed ideas of contracts.

[CountSparkle]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.

For causal relationships, there are agreements, understandings, and contracts. Moving on.

In general, there are not. You do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you. Do you?

You and 50 of your friends do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you and  50 of your friends. Do you?

50 percent of the world's population does shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of 3.5 billion individuals having a contract with the rest of the world's population. Do you?

Just because YOU can't see the point of being a good person so others leave you alone and want to interact, socialize, and trade with you, doesn't mean others can't. As I said, you have some really fucked up views of what people actually are like. You don't actually carry a set of law tomes with you to refer to when you are going on with your day-to-day interactions with people do you?

Freedom is doing what you want, and knowing that there are consequences for doing things others may not want. Those consequences may in turn limit your freedom, and are not limited to legal consequences, because legal consequences often limit the freedom of others to get their justice as well.

[FirstAscent]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.

For causal relationships, there are agreements, understandings, and contracts. Moving on.

In general, there are not. You do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you. Do you?

You and 50 of your friends do shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of everyone of those individuals having a contract with you and  50 of your friends. Do you?

50 percent of the world's population does shit. Everyone else suffers a little bit because of it. But I don't see the reality of 3.5 billion individuals having a contract with the rest of the world's population. Do you?

Just because YOU can't see the point of being a good person so others leave you alone and want to interact, socialize, and trade with you, doesn't mean others can't. As I said, you have some really fucked up views of what people actually are like. You don't actually carry a set of law tomes with you to refer to when you are going on with your day-to-day interactions with people do you?

The fallacy in your answer is where you use the boldfaced phrase. When you say others, are you referring to a percentage of the population? If so, what about the remaining percentage? The other fallacy in your argument is the assumption you make that every person out there actually knows every mistake they might be making. The world is indeed more complex that it was back in the day when Cro-Magnon man hunted on the icy banks of rivers in Eastern Europe.

Regulations are important in today's world of industry and population density. Can you think why? Or are you indeed one of those who doesn't actually know all the cause and effects of actions within today's societies, economies and the natural ecosystems? How much do you know? The reality is, nobody expects that much from you in terms of knowledge, but instead, it's expected that you should accept some regulations instead.

Please share with me the general sources of learning you have been the recipient of, to come by your views. Are they balanced? Are they biased? Are they well known? Are they critically acclaimed? What citations do these sources have?

Oh, and please answer those questions about the contracts.

[CountSparkle]

The fallacy in your answer is where you use the boldfaced phrase. When you say others, are you referring to a percentage of the population? If so, what about the remaining percentage?

It doesn't matter what percentage it is. If someone is doing something wrong, they WILL be told about it.

The other fallacy in your argument is the assumption you make that every person out there actually knows every mistake they might be making. The world is indeed more complex that it was back in the day when Cro-Magnon man hunted on the icy banks of rivers in Eastern Europe.

If you are running a business or a trade, you BETTER well know what the hell you are doing. And, again, if you don't, and you fuck up, you WILL be told about it. Right now everyone just sits on their hands, and hopes someone else (the regulatory agency in government) tells you about it.

Regulations are important in today's world of industry and population density. Can you think why? Or are you indeed one of those who doesn't actually know all the cause and effects of actions within today's societies, economies and the natural ecosystems? How much do you know? The reality is, nobody expects that much from you in terms of knowledge, but instead, it's expected that you should accept some regulations instead.

Like I said, you're an idiot who thinks everyone else is, too. Do you need the government to tell you that you feel bad ON TOP of telling you how to behave, too?

Please share with me the general sources of learning you have been the recipient of, to come by your views. Are they balanced? Are they biased? Are they well known? Are they critically acclaimed? What citations do these sources have?

Public school. Very socialist, moderately socialist, and religious, throughout the years. Community college, public university, and other studies. Lots of reading and books from a very young age (I started reading books when I was 3). Slow evolution from hard-left socialist through moderate socialist, to "we only need government for defense," and finally to "fuck it, AnCap will happen whether we want it to or not, might as well embrace it."
How about you?

Oh, and please answer those questions about the contracts.

I don't have to, because the question ignored my original statement. Let me repost it with bolding relevant parts:

For causal relationships, there are agreements, understandings, and contracts.

You don't have to have a contract to understand that you will be seriously fucked with if you fuck someone else over. And no government or regulation is required for it.

[FirstAscent]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

[CountSparkle]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

And you never understood that in AnCap, all small things will aggregate into big things. Anarchy is not "everyone for themselves," it's "everyone for freely choosing their alliances." If you can't understand the larger implication of this then you can't understand AnCap.
(Yes, even if those alliances form some sort pseudo-totalitarian, taxing authorities that control and tax whoever lives on their territory)

[FirstAscent]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

And you never understood that in AnCap, all small things will aggregate into big things. Anarchy is not "everyone for themselves," it's "everyone for freely choosing their alliances." If you can't understand the larger implication of this then you can't understand AnCap.
(Yes, even if those alliances form some sort pseudo-totalitarian, taxing authorities that control and tax whoever lives on their territory)

I believe you missed the point. Small things, virtually unnoticed, go unenforced. But in aggregate, create monstrous problems.

[CountSparkle]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

And you never understood that in AnCap, all small things will aggregate into big things. Anarchy is not "everyone for themselves," it's "everyone for freely choosing their alliances." If you can't understand the larger implication of this then you can't understand AnCap.
(Yes, even if those alliances form some sort pseudo-totalitarian, taxing authorities that control and tax whoever lives on their territory)

I believe you missed the point. Small things, virtually unnoticed, go unenforced. But in aggregate, create monstrous problems.

Do you mean in an AnCap society, or in a Statist regulatory one? Or both? in which case it's irrelevant anyway.

[Dalkore]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

And you never understood that in AnCap, all small things will aggregate into big things. Anarchy is not "everyone for themselves," it's "everyone for freely choosing their alliances." If you can't understand the larger implication of this then you can't understand AnCap.
(Yes, even if those alliances form some sort pseudo-totalitarian, taxing authorities that control and tax whoever lives on their territory)

I believe you missed the point. Small things, virtually unnoticed, go unenforced. But in aggregate, create monstrous problems.

Do you mean in an AnCap society, or in a Statist regulatory one? Or both? in which case it's irrelevant anyway.

Count Sparkle - Congratulations!!!!!  I believe you may be our first "Political Sock-puppet" account.   AND you're a AnCap supporter Applause all the way around.  Gotta love the account created on Dec 19th and then almost immediately starts posting in here, just to support your fringe ideal.   Has too much reality and logic been hitting AnCap too much lately for you to start making up new supporters?
 

[hazek]

Freedom is the capacity to act without restraint or limitation.

[CountSparkle]

Count Sparkle - Congratulations!!!!!  I believe you may be our first "Political Sock-puppet" account.   AND you're a AnCap supporter Applause all the way around.  Gotta love the account created on Dec 19th and then almost immediately starts posting in here, just to support your fringe ideal.   Has too much reality and logic been hitting AnCap too much lately for you to start making up new supporters?

Not at all. You can blame two things on this: Minimum post requirements to get out of the newbie section, and boredom. The reason for this account have more to do with my attempt at showing that AnCap is not an ideology, but is something that is already practiced. I need to stay anonymous because I fully intend on braking laws (and in a small way already am) which I don't believe are ethically just. My anonymity, combined with Bitcoin, Tor, and PGP, means that your laws are irrelevant, since they can't do anything about what it is I am involved in (stay tuned  ). Posting here and replying to you is really just "shooting the shit" as they say.

[Rassah]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.

What do you mean by "causal relationship?"

[Rassah]

I guess you don't understand how small things summed in aggregate become big things. Have a good day.

And you never understood that in AnCap, all small things will aggregate into big things. Anarchy is not "everyone for themselves," it's "everyone for freely choosing their alliances." If you can't understand the larger implication of this then you can't understand AnCap.
(Yes, even if those alliances form some sort pseudo-totalitarian, taxing authorities that control and tax whoever lives on their territory)

I believe you missed the point. Small things, virtually unnoticed, go unenforced. But in aggregate, create monstrous problems.

Wouldn't they also go unnoticed in a regulatory society, and thus will go unenforced? What do government regulators have that people who are involved with a person doing those things directly don't?