The space launchings aren't putting food on your table.

[BADecker]

Not everything necessarily has to add to our daily supper. We pay our taxes and most of them are evenly distributed for the countries development in various facets and industries. In terms of space travel, it's more of a long term discovery plan and to learn about the elements in space. It does help explore and identify similar Earth like planets and other habitable places (which of course is a humans dream).

When you go to the grocery store, and you get a gallon of milk, you get a receipt. On the receipt there is information that shows that you paid for a gallon of milk, the particular brand of milk, itemization of any other products you purchased, sales tax (if any), sub-totals and the final "grand" total.

Do you ever get any of that for the taxes you pay? Taxes for space development is simply unknown. In addition, you don't know that YOUR taxes helped with any of it... for a fact.

Get NASA and everything else out of the taxes. Donate to them directly if you want to.

[Spendulus]

....
Oh how short our memory is, you seem to forget a previous discussion we've had on this very subject. Let me jog your memory:



"... The Dutch national museum said Thursday that one of its prized possessions, a rock supposedly brought back from the moon by U.S. astronauts, is just a piece of petrified wood. Rijksmuseum spokeswoman Xandra van Gelder, who oversaw the investigation that proved the piece was a fake, said the museum will keep it anyway as a curiosity. ..."

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32581790/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/moon-rock-museum-just-petrified-wood/

No, I did not forget it.  There are no similar characteristics between petrified wood and lunar rocks, and this is evident either looking at them with eyeballs or microscopes.  So chalk this one up to total stupidity.

And that leaves what I have noted as true.  It may not have occurred to you, but the fact that someone finally looked at that rock, and said, "No, this is not a moon rock," confirms what I said, instead of in any way disproving it.

[Spendulus]

NASA is to thank for all of that but I'm asking what we got out of SPACE TRAVEL ITSELF.

In those links, nobody said "we found cameras on the moon".

There isn't any real proof that anybody went to the moon. So we can expect that there aren't any cameras on the moon.

In your own mind only.

It's easy to bounce laser beams off a reflector left on the Moon by Apollo.

How did that get there?

I suppose you went up there and checked out that those were earth reflectors that reflected laser light?

In all likelihood, NASA found 3 spots where laser light could be reflected off the moon's natural surface. Then they built their whole moon landing scam around those 3 spots, just so that they could offer proof later.

How about the moon rocks, which any first semester geology student can identify as not having came from Earth?

More interestingly though, what did the Saturn rockets actually DO?  They were tracked by radar by  various countries around the world.

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

[eon89]

Working full-time on two part time jobs - that's funny. Sorry but it is.
And also - agreed - there should be some taxes that should be optional.
But in the end you guys have to agree that NASA really made some important and useful discoveries. At least the ones that were made public.

[notbatman]

NASA is to thank for all of that but I'm asking what we got out of SPACE TRAVEL ITSELF.

In those links, nobody said "we found cameras on the moon".

There isn't any real proof that anybody went to the moon. So we can expect that there aren't any cameras on the moon.

In your own mind only.

It's easy to bounce laser beams off a reflector left on the Moon by Apollo.

How did that get there?

I suppose you went up there and checked out that those were earth reflectors that reflected laser light?

In all likelihood, NASA found 3 spots where laser light could be reflected off the moon's natural surface. Then they built their whole moon landing scam around those 3 spots, just so that they could offer proof later.

How about the moon rocks, which any first semester geology student can identify as not having came from Earth?

More interestingly though, what did the Saturn rockets actually DO?  They were tracked by radar by  various countries around the world.

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

From my "I'm a Rocket Scientist" thread:

All rockets are dumped in the ocean or detonated, total fraud!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvMlAqC4bm4

[BADecker]

NASA is to thank for all of that but I'm asking what we got out of SPACE TRAVEL ITSELF.

In those links, nobody said "we found cameras on the moon".

There isn't any real proof that anybody went to the moon. So we can expect that there aren't any cameras on the moon.

In your own mind only.

It's easy to bounce laser beams off a reflector left on the Moon by Apollo.

How did that get there?

I suppose you went up there and checked out that those were earth reflectors that reflected laser light?

In all likelihood, NASA found 3 spots where laser light could be reflected off the moon's natural surface. Then they built their whole moon landing scam around those 3 spots, just so that they could offer proof later.

How about the moon rocks, which any first semester geology student can identify as not having came from Earth?

More interestingly though, what did the Saturn rockets actually DO?  They were tracked by radar by  various countries around the world.

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

Just because I don't chase rockets around to see where they go, doesn't mean that anyone else is telling the truth about where they went.

[Spendulus]

NASA is to thank for all of that but I'm asking what we got out of SPACE TRAVEL ITSELF.

In those links, nobody said "we found cameras on the moon".

There isn't any real proof that anybody went to the moon. So we can expect that there aren't any cameras on the moon.

In your own mind only.

It's easy to bounce laser beams off a reflector left on the Moon by Apollo.

How did that get there?

I suppose you went up there and checked out that those were earth reflectors that reflected laser light?

In all likelihood, NASA found 3 spots where laser light could be reflected off the moon's natural surface. Then they built their whole moon landing scam around those 3 spots, just so that they could offer proof later.

How about the moon rocks, which any first semester geology student can identify as not having came from Earth?

More interestingly though, what did the Saturn rockets actually DO?  They were tracked by radar by  various countries around the world.

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

Just because I don't chase rockets around to see where they go, doesn't mean that anyone else is telling the truth about where they went.

You mean you don't have any idea what Apollo 4 actually did, or Apollo 8, but you're certain they did not go or do what the US government said?

You just hate the US government, right?  This is just something else you can claim they lie about.

That's all that's really going on with you.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Oh Christ is Greek still trolling?  I thought he got a permaban or something, as I haven't seen any of his threads or posts around lately.  And I agree with Splendulus:  NASA does not have an obligation to put food on your table.  That's part of YOUR food budget, not our taxes.  I don't mind the space programs at all.  

Greek, you almost sound like a conspiracy theorist.  Almost.  And you sound like you're an only child, too.

1. You haven't seen me around because I've been working full-time on two part time jobs whilst working on my engagement proposal for my girlfriend, and also getting my own personal businesses finally off the ground. I cannot log in every single day like a loser. You see, when you have a life outside your computer, that sometimes happens.

2. I'm not trolling. Reality is that I don't want my money being taken away from me to fund people floating in space. Why not prioritize humans and worldy issues first like famine, war, death, recession, and so on before funding all that bullshit we don't need?

3. I'll take it that you're just pissed that you have yet to come up with an argument against that "fifteen year old girl stripping for bitcoins" situation. It's good to know you encourage little girls getting naked for money anonymously! You keep up the good work!

1)  Excellent!  I hope life gets even busier for you.

2)  That is a naive view of economics in my opinion.  Stuff is prioritized; you just don't want space exploration to happen at all because you think it personally affects how much food you can put on your table--that's waaaay more a function of how much you can earn than the little you, personally, contribute to NASA's budget.

3)  Have you stopped beating your fiancee yet?

[Schleicher]

Just to feed the troll I will post a picture here:

Apollo 15: Follow the Tracks by NASA Goddard Space Flight Center @Flickr

[BADecker]

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

Just because I don't chase rockets around to see where they go, doesn't mean that anyone else is telling the truth about where they went.

You mean you don't have any idea what Apollo 4 actually did, or Apollo 8, but you're certain they did not go or do what the US government said?

You just hate the US government, right?  This is just something else you can claim they lie about.

That's all that's really going on with you.

So you followed the Apollos up in another rocket to see exactly where they went, right?

The government is nothing but paperwork. It doesn't lie or tell the truth all by itself. It is the people of government who tell the truth or lie, sometimes using the paperwork. You seem to love sensationalism rather than the truth.

[BADecker]

Just to feed the troll I will post a picture here:

Apollo 15: Follow the Tracks by NASA Goddard Space Flight Center @Flickr

Wow! You have actually found a real, live, honest and true NASA picture that shows the arrows and words that are engraved into the actual surface of the moon? Wild! And here I thought that we needed proof that people went to the moon.

 

[Spendulus]

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

Just because I don't chase rockets around to see where they go, doesn't mean that anyone else is telling the truth about where they went.

You mean you don't have any idea what Apollo 4 actually did, or Apollo 8, but you're certain they did not go or do what the US government said?

You just hate the US government, right?  This is just something else you can claim they lie about.

That's all that's really going on with you.

So you followed the Apollos up in another rocket to see exactly where they went, right?
....

I know exactly where some of them went, yes.  But how about you tell me where a couple of them went other than NOT WHERE THEY SAID THEY WENT?

Your stand on this is ridiculous.  Either put up or shut up.

[protokol]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

[BADecker]

So you think all of the possible geology on earth has been discovered examined already, right?

So you are ready to get on the stand and swear that you know first-hand that radar rocket tracking wasn't an elaborate hoax set up by covert, joint sciences from nations that had (or suggested that they had) technology to use radar this way?

Sure, Russia and the US in the middle of the Cold War were going to do that.

Come on, let's hear it.  What did the Apollo 8 mission actually DO?  I'm picking just this one as an example.  Everyone knows the Saturn booster flew off the launch pad at the Cape, now you tell us.  Where did it GO?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCsDVfPQqk

I mean, you gotta understand, everyone would really like to know.

Let's go back a year or two.  Here's Apollo 4, which was unmanned, and flew in 1967.

Where did this one go?  What did it really do?

Just because I don't chase rockets around to see where they go, doesn't mean that anyone else is telling the truth about where they went.

You mean you don't have any idea what Apollo 4 actually did, or Apollo 8, but you're certain they did not go or do what the US government said?

You just hate the US government, right?  This is just something else you can claim they lie about.

That's all that's really going on with you.

So you followed the Apollos up in another rocket to see exactly where they went, right?
....

I know exactly where some of them went, yes.  But how about you tell me where a couple of them went other than NOT WHERE THEY SAID THEY WENT?

Your stand on this is ridiculous.  Either put up or shut up.

My my. How temperamental.

How do I know where those rockets went? Perhaps you really do know. But maybe you only think you know. Relax. Try to not go off in a tizzy. We need you in the Islam threads.

[BADecker]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

[Spendulus]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

Now 1 + 1 is not 2. 

So far you have brought up a number of assertions regarding the Moon Landings being fake.  I shredded every one of them.

You still really don't see to get it - or you are a pathological liar.

I think the former. 

Here is a bit of education on rocks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometeoroid

Micrometeoroids are very small pieces of rock or metal broken off from larger chunks of rock and debris often dating back to the birth of the Solar System. Micrometeoroids are extremely common in space. Tiny particles are a major contributor to space weathering processes. When they hit the surface of the Moon, or any airless body (Mercury, the asteroids, etc.), the resulting melting and vaporization causes darkening and other optical changes in the regolith. In order to understand the micrometeoroid population better, a number of spacecraft (including Lunar Orbiter 1, Luna 3, Mars 1 and Pioneer 5) have carried micrometeoroid detectors.

Rocks brought back by Apollo show at 100x - 1000x magnification, bunches of small craters.  These can only have been made by direct impact of micrometeoroids at 50-100,000 foot per second velocities.  They also show multiple layering of metal from metal vapor, such as would result from nearby hits. 

Therefore, those rocks came from the Moon (and for other reasons, I'll exclude for brevity, they could not have came from anywhere else). 

How did we get them?  History and the records indicate that men landed on the Moon, picked them out, and brought them back.

If that is not so, then you tell us how we got them.

[eon89]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

Yeah - it's all a big conspiracy. No one went to the moon, in space, on the ISS.
It's all Photoshop. Those guys make a lot of money, that's for sure.

[BADecker]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

Yeah - it's all a big conspiracy. No one went to the moon, in space, on the ISS.
It's all Photoshop. Those guys make a lot of money, that's for sure.

Thanks for agreeing with me.   

[Spendulus]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

Yeah - it's all a big conspiracy. No one went to the moon, in space, on the ISS.
It's all Photoshop. Those guys make a lot of money, that's for sure.

Suuuurrrreeee.  It was all Photoshop.  In 1968...

LOL....

[eon89]

Fact is, if the moon landings were faked, then that means that the whole Space Race and the Cold War were both elaborate hoaxes. And that means in turn, that every aggressive action by both the USA and Russia against each other was also a hoax. The shit just gets exponentially more unlikely with every logical step, to the point that it becomes utterly ridiculous.

The more complicated things get, the more difficult it is to maintain them. For example, a bicycle is quite simple when compared with a car. Bicycle upkeep is a lot cheaper than a car, even if you can do a lot of things with a car that you can't with a bicycle.

The point? It is the same with math. One + 1 = 2... or does it? In real life it never does. Why not? Because there are no two things that are exactly the same. So, 1 + 1 is always 1 + 1. Now 1 + 1 = 2 flawed math works very well in simple things. But the more complex that things get, the harder it is to make the flawed math work in real life. The hoaxes get greater and greater, just like the complex machinery gets more difficult to maintain. But both of them break down.

Yeah - it's all a big conspiracy. No one went to the moon, in space, on the ISS.
It's all Photoshop. Those guys make a lot of money, that's for sure.

Suuuurrrreeee.  It was all Photoshop.  In 1968...

LOL....

Of course. It's common knowledge. Everybody knows Photoshop was invented in 1967. Jeez. Do I have to explain everything to you guys?