My Thoughts on the Bitcoin Foundation

[charleshoskinson]

Enjoy:

http://hoskinsoncharles.blogspot.com/2015/12/how-to-save-or-destroy-bitcoin.html

Or if you prefer them in Bitcointalk form:

How to Save (Or Destroy) the Bitcoin Foundation
I've been thinking about the Bitcoin Foundation over the last few months. After I left as the first chairman of the education committee back in late 2013, I dismissed the Foundation as a mostly inept attempt by some business interests in the community to gain an edge over their competitors.

The actions of Peter Vessenes and Mark Karpeles alongside the board's indifference to the Foundation's membership as well as the mainstream Bitcoin community made it seem likely that the Foundation would simply go bankrupt and collapse under its own weight like a great battleship built for a war that would never happen and then left to rust in neglect (see I can be poetic too). Sure enough, they are functionally bankrupt having burnt through about 7 million dollars worth of Bitcoin (they even spent a million dollars on that spiffy Amsterdam conference!).

So why the sudden interest after my self-imposed exile? After traveling extensively throughout the world, I've notice that there is still an impression internationally that the Foundation is relevant and in some way represents Bitcoin- especially among the international press. It's not accurate and probably similar in spirit to the headlines stating Bitcoin's CEO has been arrested.

We also have a larger, but somewhat related problem that the blocksize debate has made blatantly clear- governance. It seems nearly impossible to get the community to agree on anything outside of trying to increase adoption and the underlying value of the bitcoin token.

Hence, I think we have an opportunity to solve two problems at once. The Foundation can be productively reborn preventing another media boondoggle and at the same time we have an excellent opportunity to explore new types of governance, algorithmic regulation and social consensus.

So assuming it's somehow a good idea to rebuild the Foundation (I fully agree that there are solid arguments to simply let it burn), let's explore what it would take to do so. As a side-note, I would be equally happy with seeing the Foundation shutdown if it didn't harm the Bitcoin brand and community.

First, the Foundation has lost any form of legitimacy. It's broke because prior leaders looted it. It's undemocratic by forcing out elected board members and replacing them with appointed ones. It's utterly unable to listen to outside opinions and conduct basic affairs such as managing board meetings, elections or produce a viable road-map.

Thus these issues need to be corrected before any future progress can be made. So let's start with an independent audit of the Foundation's books, relationships and accomplishments. Hire an auditor paid from an outside pool of capital (hell I'll throw some money into that fund) and give him a mandate to do the following:


Build a timeline of all major events since the Foundations inception
Provide detailed financial records on the Foundation's expenses and income
Annotate all business relationships the Foundation has had since its inception and their association (if any) to current and past board members and executive directors
Provide an HR database of all personnel that the foundation has retained and their compensation. Also build a social graph showing the relationship between the Foundation employees and the board members past and present including if they worked for or with the board members in previous or current ventures
List the major efforts the Foundation has embarked upon and rate their success based upon the Auditor's best judgement and whatever objective metrics can be established
Give each executive director- past and present- an opportunity to write an explanation for the findings of the auditor.
Once drafted, then release the report to the general public- unless criminal conduct is discovered, then first release the evidence to the relevant agencies and let them choose when to release it.

Here's what an audit accomplishes:


It divorces the Foundation from its past by bringing everything out into the light and exposing any corruption from past or present leadership. If anyone is responsible for criminal acts, then they will be exposed and I'd hope prosecuted     
It acts as a basis for the Foundation to re-engage the Bitcoin community. The Foundation can say ok this is what we did wrong so tell us how we can be better in the future?
Those who are asking for the Foundation to be shutdown can now have a fair debate. The audit will provide an independent assessment of where the Foundation has been and what it has accomplished given its resources
At the end of this process, my hope would be for the Foundation to work with the Bitcoin community towards either shutting itself down or some form of reconstruction. The point is that its now done with reason, evidence and consensus instead of a shouting match. In my experience, people get angry when they feel like they've been deceived or aren't being heard. There is a very strong perception in the Bitcoin community that the Foundation has been historically dishonest and deaf. An audit strikes at the heart of the anger.

Second, let's say the Foundation somehow survives an audit and the community -or a wealthy patron(s)- seeks to continue the Foundation's existence, then the next step is to solidify the organization behind a new mission and values. This action is a wonderful opportunity to work with several ventures such as Colony and Boardroom focusing on DAOs and other algorithmically enforced structures of governance. 

But it's natural to ask to what end? I don't think Charles Hoskinson should decide that. More to the point, no one person should. Instead let's make proposals and draft a candidate constitution. Then have the Bitcoin community vote on proposals. In my view, the core value proposition for continuing the Foundation is to experiment with technology that allows for decentralized governance. If the Foundation should continue under an unelected or pseudo-elected board, then just shut it down. We created Bitcoin to get away from these things.

This process could be amazingly beneficial. It- like Bitcoin was and still is-  serves as an experiment driven by a well intended community instead of the mandate of an overlord seeking power or control (also drop Satoshi from the board, it's insulting). We would also gain tangible data on how to discuss controversial ideas within a productive framework with the aim of eventually reaching a community consensus (can you think of any debate Bitcoiners are having right now?). Finally, the community can also explore how to regulate a custodial entity using cryptography instead of trusted founders (wow, think of all those smart contracts and prove of solvency proposals that people have been preaching about- someone call Peter Todd!).

And now comes the objection: But Charles there isn't enough money to do this stuff! And I say: Aren't Mirror, Coinprism and other Bitcoin companies incredibly well funded, and don't they need a good showcase for their tech? Wouldn't the good press and community goodwill serve as excellent advertisement for their platforms?

Money is never the issue. It's vision and the ability to forge partnerships around it. If the current board can't accomplish this task, then fire them or shut the whole thing down. I'm extremely tired of hearing that we can't accomplish something. The entire point of Bitcoin has been doing the stuff that people have been saying we can't do on a consistent basis.

The argument above showcases my primary issue with the Foundation. It just doesn't lead. It lacks any notion of a vision or a purpose. Let's not blame them for it. Let's just install one that benefits the entire community.

Third, let's discuss management and global representation. Traveling around the world, I've had the privilege to meet some exceptional people from Switzerland to Japan. I'm headed to Argentina next month and will have a chance to spend some time with one of the most passionate Bitcoin communities that you can find. It utterly disturbing to see the passive level of commitment that the current (and former) members of the Foundation's leadership have outside of Bruce and a few others. 

There are legions of Bitcoiners who would work with the Foundation full or part time with both enthusiasm and zeal if only given a chance. If the Foundation is going to continue existing, then it should reach out to the existing Bitcoin communities. More specifically, the Bitcoin meetup groups. They are run by passionate volunteers who love this space, the technology and its rich philosophical roots.

The Bitcoin meetup groups are also largely responsible for Bitcoin's growth from a novel technology to a global movement. I'd love to see the Foundation serve as a hub connecting them together and recruiting from within their ranks on a global basis. When people are given a great vision and a purpose, they aren't motivated by money to do work. The open source movement has proven this truth time and again.

Alright, so in conclusion, audit the Foundation, turn over any evidence of criminal conduct to the relevant authorities, draft a constitution via community participation, govern using tech from well funded Bitcoin startups, and link all the Bitcoin meetup groups together to act as the execution engine, talent farm and source of great ideas (See Social Physics).

It's really not that hard to accomplish something great. It just takes vision, persistence, honesty and leadership. If the Foundation has it, then it should survive. If it doesn't, then don't worry it will eventually collapse. 

Cheers,
Axiom

[1715202851]

1715202851

[franky1]

firstly an audit is just throwing more money down the drain..

instead just grab all the bitcoin and fiat the foundation has and declare the past the past..

next... this is important.
1.stop with the lame circle jerking meetings that provide no fruits of labour.
by this i mean there is no point asking a group of 2 dozen people to get together, paying travel accomodation, food and catering. just to talk about something that can be done via skype

2. dont waste weeks or months giving people fancy name badges and titles.. just throw them a github, lighthouse, a skype username and tell them to go do something

3. paid memberships should be removed.. making it free to be a member.
then anyone can submit a project and have collaboration and support just by talking to each other
and if they want funding.. members can crowdsource them directly, (voting with bitcoin) that way the more votes they get then obviously the more bitcoin they get as its one in the same.
that way members know exactly where their funds are going to because they are the ones giving it (think lighthouse)

4. the foundation should be more of a directory, business listing, resource repository, which is the main go-to-place, not some 'Governor' making orders.. but where things happen and no actual need of 'board members'(office dwelling pen pushers).

[charleshoskinson]

Wouldn't it be cool if you could vote on that agenda? It's a reasonable proposition and it should be debated. That's my overall point. Either make this possible or kill the thing. In terms of the audit, I feel it's the only way to save the org. It is impossible to continue operations with the past unexplored and potential criminal conduct floating around.

[tokeweed]

firstly an audit is just throwing more money down the drain..

instead just grab all the bitcoin and fiat the foundation has and declare the past the past..

next... this is important.
1.stop with the lame circle jerking meetings that provide no fruits of labour.
by this i mean there is no point asking a group of 2 dozen people to get together, paying travel accomodation, food and catering. just to talk about something that can be done via skype

2. dont waste weeks or months giving people fancy name badges and titles.. just throw them a github, lighthouse, a skype username and tell them to go do something

3. paid memberships should be removed.. making it free to be a member.
then anyone can submit a project and have collaboration and support just by talking to each other
and if they want funding.. members can crowdsource them directly, (voting with bitcoin) that way the more votes they get then obviously the more bitcoin they get as its one in the same.
that way members know exactly where their funds are going to because they are the ones giving it (think lighthouse)

4. the foundation should be more of a directory, business listing, resource repository, which is the main go-to-place, not some 'Governor' making orders.. but where things happen and no actual need of 'board members'(office dwelling pen pushers).

Franky for pres!

[Gleb Gamow]

firstly an audit is just throwing more money down the drain..

instead just grab all the bitcoin and fiat the foundation has and declare the past the past..

next... this is important.
1.stop with the lame circle jerking meetings that provide no fruits of labour.
by this i mean there is no point asking a group of 2 dozen people to get together, paying travel accomodation, food and catering. just to talk about something that can be done via skype

2. dont waste weeks or months giving people fancy name badges and titles.. just throw them a github, lighthouse, a skype username and tell them to go do something

3. paid memberships should be removed.. making it free to be a member.
then anyone can submit a project and have collaboration and support just by talking to each other
and if they want funding.. members can crowdsource them directly, (voting with bitcoin) that way the more votes they get then obviously the more bitcoin they get as its one in the same.
that way members know exactly where their funds are going to because they are the ones giving it (think lighthouse)

4. the foundation should be more of a directory, business listing, resource repository, which is the main go-to-place, not some 'Governor' making orders.. but where things happen and no actual need of 'board members'(office dwelling pen pushers).

Franky for pres!

tokeweed for vice!

[Gleb Gamow]

Wouldn't it be cool if you could vote on that agenda? It's a reasonable proposition and it should be debated. That's my overall point. Either make this possible or kill the thing. In terms of the audit, I feel it's the only way to save the org. It is impossible to continue operations with the past unexplored and potential criminal conduct floating around.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/transparency/



I've been waiting for TBF to release their "transparent" 2014 tax filings since spring of this year, dedicating a thread to the endeavor: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1095310.0

I was just about to pen a new thread on the subject upon reading http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-30/the-final-days-of-the-bitcoin-foundation- but I see that Charles beat me to the punch. Nice blog post, BTW, Charles. And please, don't upload anybody more videos of you talking. I have a very hard time pulling away from such, just like when viewing Andreas Antonopoulos speaking.  

[Pab]

Fortunetly bitcoin  foundation is  bankrupt.Thay have dump all his bitcoin.There is bitcoin embassy now in Europe.Thay are doing totally nothing..Propably thay have some grants from EU

[franky1]

last i checked bitcoin foundation moved to the UK in 2014.. and thus there wont be a 2014 american IRS record for them, just a 2013

[Gleb Gamow]

last i checked bitcoin foundation moved to the UK in 2014.. and thus there wont be a 2014 american IRS record for them, just a 2013

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/transparency/



That makes sense. That also explains why TBF has had the above on their website since January of 2015, because they moved to Europe on January 1, 2014, thus don't have to file taxes any longer in the US.  Now, if they were still based in the US on January 2, 2014, then they would have to file if their calendar year is based on the Gregorian calendar we mortals currently use.

I guess that also explains away why the following pages are no longer available to be viewed:

https://bitcoin4.bitcoinfoundation.org/static/2014/05/Bitcoin-2013-990-PDC.pdf

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2012-990EZ-IRS-Bitcoin-Foundation-.pdf

From The Wayback Machine because The Bitcoin Foundation felt it prudent to remove the original from its website: http://web.archive.org/web/20150407230759/https://blog.bitcoinfoundation.org/the-facts-about-the-bitcoin-foundation/



The above being the final straw for me, thus SHUT THE MOTHERFUCKER DOWN!

[franky1]

i said years ago not to have a "foundation" but more of a "consortium".

but no.. some of them guys just wanted to look smart by having glorified titles, doing no work that benefits others..

then brock came on the scene and sucked them private keys dry, before moving to the UK to rinse and repeat it with BTC foundation 2.0

[Gleb Gamow]

Bruce Fenton: Please donate to The Bitcoin Foundation and we promise to disclose our 2014 tax filing sometime in 2016 because of our full transparency thingy we have in place. Meanwhile, please stop spreading FUD about TBF being bankrupt. All that matters is that TBF has done great things for the Bitcoin community like doling out a million dollars to put on the Amsterdam conference. Speaking of, will the dude who stole my hookah kindly return it?


"I am Marshall Long, and I approve this post, Brothers. BTW, this is my hookah that I've owned since 2009 when me and two friends started mining bitcoins for fun and to protect the network."

[GetClams.com]

Too much damage has been done and with only about $12k left, its over. IMHO

[Denker]

We don't need the Bitcoin Foundation.
The attempt of Brock Pierce to repare it's reputation is a waste of time imo
and will burn more money which can be used more reasonable.
I see absolutely no reason for this thing to exist.

[franky1]

We don't need the Bitcoin Foundation.
The attempt of Brock Pierce to repare it's reputation is a waste of time imo
and will burn more money which can be used more reasonable.
I see absolutely no reason for this thing to exist.

i agree the current conception of the foundation is not needed..

but imagine something completely different.

a forum-esq platform. where it links businesses, programmers, idea's together, where people can make crowdfunding proposals, or labour sourcing proposals, and also includes the tutorial, development courses and howto guides all in one place.... without the trolling and sig-campaigns this forum is bloating with.

where each 'topic' has a IRC chatlink so people can informally discuss it and only use the forum posts for more official information.

imagine it like combining this forum, with lighthouse(kickstarter) with each topic having an IRC chatroom.. where the forum topics and categories are organised and more professional..

[charleshoskinson]

i agree the current conception of the foundation is not needed..

I think there is extremely strong consensus in the Bitcoin community about this opinion, which is why I stated after an audit the community ought to make proposals for a new form of Foundation.

but imagine something completely different.

I always get excited when I read a sentence like this one.

a forum-esq platform. where it links businesses, programmers, idea's together

Three questions:

• 1) Where are the businesses and programmers going to be sourced from?
• 2) Define ideas more concretely. It's a very vague term.
• 3) Do you have an example platform in mind already? Something like Bitcointalk or more like stackexchange or Quora? Would we need to build this from the ground up or is there something we could use?

 

where people can make crowdfunding proposals

So there is a fundraising component? What do you have in mind? Something like debating the merit of an idea or the actual mechanics of sourcing funds? Is this a full funding stack or is a line drawn somewhere?

or labour sourcing proposals,

I assume there is an implicit notion of funding the labor via some new, creative and cool means?

and also includes the tutorial, development courses and howto guides all in one place.... without the trolling and sig-campaigns this forum is bloating with.

An education component is extremely welcome and something I have argued for three years. MOOCs, youtube videos and tutorials are high impact and low cost to make. Meetup groups make excellent distribution and curation engines.

where each 'topic' has a IRC chatlink so people can informally discuss it and only use the forum posts for more official information.

So there is a hierarchy of information flow. A topic and then a flow of conversation about the topic. I suppose it's like a stackexchange model where one has a question and then there are answers (your forum post idea) and then some connection to a chat service where discussions are had around the topic that won't necessarily be preserved.

imagine it like combining this forum, with lighthouse(kickstarter) with each topic having an IRC chatroom.. where the forum topics and categories are organised and more professional..

So you're talking about a more effective platform to manage a decentralized community, vet their ideas and get good ones funded. I'd also love to see a memory in a sense of ideas that have been explored and tried. This notion extends before the founding of Bitcoin. Many of the cipherpunk ideas from the 80s are being revisited with our new technology and still have great merit. It's evident when you look at the Nakamoto Institute's reading list.

I really like what you're on to and its an example of what happens when you say ok let's try to have a meaningful discussion about solving problems instead of just complaining about them. So say you wanted to do this, what would be the next step?

[Gleb Gamow]

3) Do you have an example platform in mind already? Something like Bitcointalk or more like stackexchange or Quora? Would we need to build this from the ground up or is there something we could use?

I'd say build it from the ground up. It should only cost about a million dollars if we use the same team who theymos hired to build this $1.5M BitcoinTalk forum we're currently enjoying. Perhaps, they can carryover some of this code to what's envisioned. (apologies if this post is delayed due to the forum going dark a third time this week)

/s

[charleshoskinson]

Bruno you do bring up a very valid point about execution and accountability. These skills are among the most lacking in the space.

[franky1]

a forum-esq platform. where it links businesses, programmers, idea's together

Three questions:

• 1) Where are the businesses and programmers going to be sourced from?
• 2) Define ideas more concretely. It's a very vague term.
• 3) Do you have an example platform in mind already? Something like Bitcointalk or more like stackexchange or Quora? Would we need to build this from the ground up or is there something we could use?

 

where people can make crowdfunding proposals

So there is a fundraising component? What do you have in mind? Something like debating the merit of an idea or the actual mechanics of sourcing funds? Is this a full funding stack or is a line drawn somewhere?

or labour sourcing proposals,

I assume there is an implicit notion of funding the labor via some new, creative and cool means?

and also includes the tutorial, development courses and howto guides all in one place.... without the trolling and sig-campaigns this forum is bloating with.

An education component is extremely welcome and something I have argued for three years. MOOCs, youtube videos and tutorials are high impact and low cost to make. Meetup groups make excellent distribution and curation engines.

where each 'topic' has a IRC chatlink so people can informally discuss it and only use the forum posts for more official information.

So there is a hierarchy of information flow. A topic and then a flow of conversation about the topic. I suppose it's like a stackexchange model where one has a question and then there are answers (your forum post idea) and then some connection to a chat service where discussions are had around the topic that won't necessarily be preserved.

imagine it like combining this forum, with lighthouse(kickstarter) with each topic having an IRC chatroom.. where the forum topics and categories are organised and more professional..

So you're talking about a more effective platform to manage a decentralized community, vet their ideas and get good ones funded. I'd also love to see a memory in a sense of ideas that have been explored and tried. This notion extends before the founding of Bitcoin. Many of the cipherpunk ideas from the 80s are being revisited with our new technology and still have great merit. It's evident when you look at the Nakamoto Institute's reading list.

I really like what you're on to and its an example of what happens when you say ok let's try to have a meaningful discussion about solving problems instead of just complaining about them. So say you wanted to do this, what would be the next step?

well my idea is just in its infantsy..and just an idea at that.. but it would be a hybrid bringing a forum-esq, youtube-esq, github repository, litehouse, irc, even googledocs all into one platform.

maybe not github/docs within the platform, but atleast the ability to link it in a manner that is standardized so that people are not searching for hours. as its part of each proposal.

i cant exactly imagine the final design right now.. but if all the tools are in one place and membership is free, where people only pay for projects they want to see or be part of.. then it would be more about having the platform there to let it grow naturally by how the users interact, rather than some governing system limiting real world actions by having meetings just once a month or limiting to only a few proposals to vote on..

leaving it open to anyone who wants to do anything. where people can request help or funding or even just idea's, and yes even having the reddit/stack exchange/quora upvote-downvote thing where people can show free appreciation for certain topics, thus keeping the most valid stuff ontop.

EG say 3 people propose to make a conference. each laying out the cost of hiring the hall, cost to cover speakers travel/hotel and suggestions as to how the profits from tickets will be split.

people can pay a litehouse (crowdfund) to help fund it if they chose to, but also they can upvote for free the most desireable conference. that way the most popular locations sit at the top of the list.

ofcourse anyone wanting to get funding will need to be transparent about who they are and the funds may even need to be released in phases as proof of progress is shown..

again still imagining it.. but it would need to be user-centric rather then chairman governed.

[Gleb Gamow]

Bruno you do bring up a very valid point about execution and accountability. These skills are among the most lacking in the space.

Yep! My IQ went up three points after I started giving myself eggnog enemas on an hourly basis.

Back on topic, I nominate Marshall Long to be any new entity its President since he's been mining bitcoins since 2009, and Leroy Fodor, also mining since 2009, as Treasurer since his StakeMiners Ponzi accounting is bar none, perhaps due to him earning his B.B.A. from Ohio University in Athens, Ohio, later owning, then selling his toilet cleaning business in the Carolinas, and selling off his Forex practice portfolio to move to the Philippines where he owned the largest bitcoin mining farm powered by a west-facing solar array on a hot tin roof surrounded on three sides by coconut trees. Marshall Long currently has the 4th largest mining farm in all of North America, thus he'll probably forgo a salary for being President just like he opted to not get paid while acting as Cryptsy's CTO while introducing a clone of the exchange to China even though Paul Vernon denies such to be the case.

I further suggest that Leo Iruke (FinalHash; Marshall Long's partner) be lead counsel for the new foundation.

[Gleb Gamow]

a forum-esq platform. where it links businesses, programmers, idea's together

Three questions:

• 1) Where are the businesses and programmers going to be sourced from?
• 2) Define ideas more concretely. It's a very vague term.
• 3) Do you have an example platform in mind already? Something like Bitcointalk or more like stackexchange or Quora? Would we need to build this from the ground up or is there something we could use?

 

where people can make crowdfunding proposals

So there is a fundraising component? What do you have in mind? Something like debating the merit of an idea or the actual mechanics of sourcing funds? Is this a full funding stack or is a line drawn somewhere?

or labour sourcing proposals,

I assume there is an implicit notion of funding the labor via some new, creative and cool means?

and also includes the tutorial, development courses and howto guides all in one place.... without the trolling and sig-campaigns this forum is bloating with.

An education component is extremely welcome and something I have argued for three years. MOOCs, youtube videos and tutorials are high impact and low cost to make. Meetup groups make excellent distribution and curation engines.

where each 'topic' has a IRC chatlink so people can informally discuss it and only use the forum posts for more official information.

So there is a hierarchy of information flow. A topic and then a flow of conversation about the topic. I suppose it's like a stackexchange model where one has a question and then there are answers (your forum post idea) and then some connection to a chat service where discussions are had around the topic that won't necessarily be preserved.

imagine it like combining this forum, with lighthouse(kickstarter) with each topic having an IRC chatroom.. where the forum topics and categories are organised and more professional..

So you're talking about a more effective platform to manage a decentralized community, vet their ideas and get good ones funded. I'd also love to see a memory in a sense of ideas that have been explored and tried. This notion extends before the founding of Bitcoin. Many of the cipherpunk ideas from the 80s are being revisited with our new technology and still have great merit. It's evident when you look at the Nakamoto Institute's reading list.

I really like what you're on to and its an example of what happens when you say ok let's try to have a meaningful discussion about solving problems instead of just complaining about them. So say you wanted to do this, what would be the next step?

well my idea is just in its infantsy..and just an idea at that.. but it would be a hybrid bringing a forum-esq, youtube-esq, github repository, litehouse, irc, even googledocs all into one platform.

maybe not github/docs within the platform, but atleast the ability to link it in a manner that is standardized so that people are not searching for hours. as its part of each proposal.

i cant exactly imagine the final design right now.. but if all the tools are in one place and membership is free, where people only pay for projects they want to see or be part of.. then it would be more about having the platform there to let it grow naturally by how the users interact, rather than some governing system limiting real world actions by having meetings just once a month or limiting to only a few proposals to vote on..

leaving it open to anyone who wants to do anything. where people can request help or funding or even just idea's, and yes even having the reddit/stack exchange/quora upvote-downvote thing where people can show free appreciation for certain topics, thus keeping the most valid stuff ontop.

EG say 3 people propose to make a conference. each laying out the cost of hiring the hall, cost to cover speakers travel/hotel and suggestions as to how the profits from tickets will be split.

people can pay a litehouse (crowdfund) to help fund it if they chose to, but also they can upvote for free the most desireable conference. that way the most popular locations sit at the top of the list.

ofcourse anyone wanting to get funding will need to be transparent about who they are and the funds may even need to be released in phases as proof of progress is shown..

again still imagining it.. but it would need to be user-centric rather then chairman governed.

Word!

[franky1]

my 5 minute idea in visual form

description of above
the main post of topic has its voting linked in the subcategory. and also the links for things like github, irc, litehouse (which only show if the author adds links)
below the authors post is the sub-discussion area where people can vote up and down the sub comments.



description of above
the links in the list make the built in player play the video selected.
(yea i havnt thought through how to display the links in a more user friendly way.. but you can always get idea's from how vimeo, youtube or other place displays links


description of above
kind of self explanatory

yes it's ugly.. but all it takes is some alternative hybrid of a forum to let people come together and link idea's and help people get all the information they need

[Gleb Gamow]

my 5 minute idea in visual form

description of above
the main post of topic has its voting linked in the subcategory. and also the links for things like github, irc, litehouse (which only show if the author adds links)
below the authors post is the sub-discussion area where people can vote up and down the sub comments.



description of above
the links in the list make the built in player play the video selected.
(yea i havnt thought through how to display the links in a more user friendly way.. but you can always get idea's from how vimeo, youtube or other place displays links


description of above
kind of self explanatory

yes it's ugly.. but all it takes is some alternative hybrid of a forum to let people come together and link idea's and help people get all the information they need

coinsortium.org is available unless you're set on creating an organization with 'con' in it. Just saying.

[franky1]

im not set on anything.. i thought we were just pushing idea's to the OP, who will hopefully have some funds after an audit, to implement.

but personally. coinsortium sounds better. but i just wanted to make a quick logo to say its a consortium not a foundation

[Gleb Gamow]

im not set on anything.. i thought we were just pushing idea's to the OP, who will hopefully have some funds after an audit, to implement.

but personally. coinsortium sounds better. but i just wanted to make a quick logo to say its a consortium not a foundation

Word! Let's raise the $1,500 needed to purchase coinsortium.com using master-P as escrow. 

[franky1]

im not set on anything.. i thought we were just pushing idea's to the OP, who will hopefully have some funds after an audit, to implement.

but personally. coinsortium sounds better. but i just wanted to make a quick logo to say its a consortium not a foundation

Word! Let's raise the $1,500 needed to purchase coinsortium.com using master-P as escrow. 

lol you do make me laugh.

im sure the OP can collect fnds after the audit from the crumbs left behind that brock forgot to raid

but on a separate note
i thought you would be more concerned that any downvoting (due to offtopic) would mean your gleb pseudonym would eventually get banned from coinsortium, where as your Phineas Gage pseudonym will get all the glory for all the community projects it proposes

[Al the Alpaca]

im not set on anything.. i thought we were just pushing idea's to the OP, who will hopefully have some funds after an audit, to implement.

but personally. coinsortium sounds better. but i just wanted to make a quick logo to say its a consortium not a foundation

Word! Let's raise the $1,500 needed to purchase coinsortium.com using master-P as escrow. 

lol you do make me laugh.

im sure the OP can collect fnds after the audit from the crumbs left behind that brock forgot to raid

but on a separate note
i thought you would be more concerned that any downvoting (due to offtopic) would mean your gleb pseudonym would eventually get banned from coinsortium, where as your Phineas Gage pseudonym will get all the glory for all the community projects it proposes

While ridin' a white alpaca to the seven corners of the globe.

[erre]

We don't need the Bitcoin Foundation.
The attempt of Brock Pierce to repare it's reputation is a waste of time imo
and will burn more money which can be used more reasonable.
I see absolutely no reason for this thing to exist.

i agree the current conception of the foundation is not needed..

but imagine something completely different.

a forum-esq platform. where it links businesses, programmers, idea's together, where people can make crowdfunding proposals, or labour sourcing proposals, and also includes the tutorial, development courses and howto guides all in one place.... without the trolling and sig-campaigns this forum is bloating with.

where each 'topic' has a IRC chatlink so people can informally discuss it and only use the forum posts for more official information.

imagine it like combining this forum, with lighthouse(kickstarter) with each topic having an IRC chatroom.. where the forum topics and categories are organised and more professional..

Are you talking about the new forum that theymos promised will be released soon?  

[franky1]

Are you talking about the new forum that theymos promised will be released soon?  

im talking about something that is more then just this troll forum.

something more professional that actually has proper content and organization where people dont need to google about bitcoin because everything is available to be found in the consortium. (coinsortium)
like business listings where people can easily find the so called 120,000 bitcoin accepting business
like tutorials, where each bitcoin client (multibit, bitcoin core, etc) have guides on how to use it (especially backing up privkeys and the importance for noobs to do it)
like courses that teach you how to code bitcoin.. whether its c++ bitcoin-core code or other projects like Nbitcoin which can be used with many programming languages
like job listings
like ATM locations
like bitcoin statistics
like crowdfunding
like project development

basically everything related to blockchain technology

for instance, many people on this forum ask "how to earn bitcoin".. this forum has several dozens topics asking this. and 90% of responses are to raid faucets and do sig campaigns..
thats stupid and the equivalent to going to an employment centre and they tell you to go begging on the street for pennies or stand on the street holding up someones advertisement.. you know.. not a real way to earn money

by having a more professional go-to place that has proper job listings, and listings of drop-shippers/manufacturers that accept bitcoin, it can easily be shown how people can set up businesses or get interviewed for proper jobs

and having all of it available in multiple native languages for international use, not just the yanks

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

They should get legit people like Andreas and Trace Mayers, but then again, those people are former members of the foundation, which ultimately makes it impossible that they would come back again, so you would need to find new talent, and then make all the money movements that go in and out of the foundation transparent int the blockchain.

[Gleb Gamow]

Are you talking about the new forum that theymos promised will be released soon?  

im talking about something that is more then just this troll forum.

something more professional that actually has proper content and organization where people dont need to google about bitcoin because everything is available to be found in the consortium. (coinsortium)
like business listings where people can easily find the so called 120,000 bitcoin accepting business
like tutorials, where each bitcoin client (multibit, bitcoin core, etc) have guides on how to use it (especially backing up privkeys and the importance for noobs to do it)
like courses that teach you how to code bitcoin.. whether its full c++ bitcoin-core code or other projects like Nbitcoin which can be used with a variety of languages
like job listings
like ATM locations
like bitcoin statistics
like crowdfunding
like project development

basically everything related to Bitcoin cryptocurrency

for instance, many people on this forum ask "how to earn bitcoin".. this forum has several dozens topics asking this. and 90% of responses are to raid faucets and do sig campaigns..
thats stupid and the equivalent to going to an employment centre and they tell you to go begging on the street for pennies or stand on the street holding up someones advertisement.. you know.. not a real way to earn money

by having a more professional go-to place that has proper job listings, and listings of drop-shippers/manufacturers that accept bitcoin, it can easily be shown how people can set up businesses or get interviewed for proper jobs

And available in hundreds of languages.

I added a couple things.

[jyakulis]

I say let them fade into insignificance. Why they were ever created is beyond me.

[franky1]

basically everything related to Bitcoin cryptocurrencyblockchain technology

for instance, many people on this forum ask "how to earn bitcoin".. this forum has several dozens topics asking this. and 90% of responses are to raid faucets and do sig campaigns..
thats stupid and the equivalent to going to an employment centre and they tell you to go begging on the street for pennies or stand on the street holding up someones advertisement.. you know.. not a real way to earn money

by having a more professional go-to place that has proper job listings, and listings of drop-shippers/manufacturers that accept bitcoin, it can easily be shown how people can set up businesses or get interviewed for proper jobs[/size]

And available in hundreds of languages.

I added a couple things.

agreed, though edited to get the right terminology (crypto is such old school word for blockchain)

[Gleb Gamow]

I say let them fade into insignificance. Why they were ever created is beyond me.

Rumor has it that it was started by a non-paid coder holding tons of bitcoins who devised a unique way to get paid for his coding, then a bright lawyer came along offering up his services for virtually equal pay as the once non-paid coder so to make it look legal and all so to garner thousands of paying members so that others in the org would also get paid for their transparent services, including at least one of the team offering up a million-dollar party in Amsterdam to celebrate the noble creation, charging a fee to any others who wanted to attend and hear people speak, or watch them roll over and play fetch.

[QuestionAuthority]

Let's take this decentralized freedom money designed to destabilize the banking industry and government control and place it in the hands of a few manipulators to control for their own gain. A rose by any other name would smell like The Bitcoin Foundation.

No one needs to promote Bitcoin other than those businesses that are making money using it. There does not need to be a central organization by any name that can be attacked by governments. If you're using Bitcoin for illegal onion network trafficking then you deal with the advertising and ramifications for that kind of business. If you're using Bitcoin to run a legal currency exchange in your country then you deal with the licensing and advertisement for that kind of business.

Bitcoin doesn't need its own version of NACHA (the electronic payments organization). Regardless of what kind of cornysortum, foundation, fan club or knitting circle you set up it will be inadequate in at least half of the countries of the world that we hope Bitcoin will be used. The Bitcoin Foundation did perform one very important function. It showed what a bullshit idea and collective circle jerk Bitcoin organizations become.

[jyakulis]

I say let them fade into insignificance. Why they were ever created is beyond me.

Rumor has it that it was started by a non-paid coder holding tons of bitcoins who devised a unique way to get paid for his coding, then a bright lawyer came along offering up his services for virtually equal pay as the once non-paid coder so to make it look legal and all so to garner thousands of paying members so that others in the org would also get paid for their transparent services, including at least one of the team offering up a million-dollar party in Amsterdam to celebrate the noble creation, charging a fee to any others who wanted to attend and hear people speak, or watch them roll over and play fetch.

Ok, interesting. I always found it odd that the original group who created a decentralized system immediately decided to make a centralized body to oversee it. It seemed contrary to the initial technology. I found myself somewhat boggled when I learned about the nature of bitcoin and then found out there was a foundation. A centralized authority is always subject to being taken over and corrupted. And that was exactly what happened.

[franky1]

Let's take this decentralized freedom money designed to destabilize the banking industry and government control and place it in the hands of a few manipulators to control for their own gain. A rose by any other name would smell like The Bitcoin Foundation.

No one needs to promote Bitcoin other than those businesses that are making money using it. There does not need to be a central organization by any name that can be attacked by governments. If you're using Bitcoin for illegal onion network trafficking then you deal with the advertising and ramifications for that kind of business. If you're using Bitcoin to run a legal currency exchange in your country then you deal with the licensing and advertisement for that kind of business.

Bitcoin doesn't need its own version of NACHA (the electronic payments organization). Regardless of what kind of cornysortum, foundation, fan club or knitting circle you set up it will be inadequate in at least half of the countries of the world that we hope Bitcoin will be used. The Bitcoin Foundation did perform one very important function. It showed what a bullshit idea and collective circle jerk Bitcoin organizations become.

i 99.999% agree with you.. but then noobs and interested people end up having to rely on google for misinformation or this forum/reddit for trolling.. i still think that there needs to be a go-to place for information and idea's beyond what this forum can offer.. but yes without any circle jerking office workers with glittery name badges.
im not interested in any 'authority' or 'governing' but just a resource for people to then get signposted in the direction of whatever bitcoin interests they have, where the users are in control of what they do or dont do

[QuestionAuthority]

Let's take this decentralized freedom money designed to destabilize the banking industry and government control and place it in the hands of a few manipulators to control for their own gain. A rose by any other name would smell like The Bitcoin Foundation.

No one needs to promote Bitcoin other than those businesses that are making money using it. There does not need to be a central organization by any name that can be attacked by governments. If you're using Bitcoin for illegal onion network trafficking then you deal with the advertising and ramifications for that kind of business. If you're using Bitcoin to run a legal currency exchange in your country then you deal with the licensing and advertisement for that kind of business.

Bitcoin doesn't need its own version of NACHA (the electronic payments organization). Regardless of what kind of cornysortum, foundation, fan club or knitting circle you set up it will be inadequate in at least half of the countries of the world that we hope Bitcoin will be used. The Bitcoin Foundation did perform one very important function. It showed what a bullshit idea and collective circle jerk Bitcoin organizations become.

i 99.999% agree with you.. but then noobs and interested people end up having to rely on google for misinformation or this forum/reddit for trolling.. i still think that there needs to be a go-to place for information and idea's beyond what this forum can offer.. but yes without any circle jerking office workers with glittery name badges.
im not interested in any 'authority' or 'governing' but just a resource for people to then get signposted in the direction of whatever bitcoin interests they have, where the users are in control of what they do or dont do

An info site could be set up and maintained by this forum using donated or advertising money to do it instead of wasting the money on this "new forum" I've been hearing about for two plus years.

[charleshoskinson]

Thoughts are now on Let's Talk Bitcoin

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/how-to-save-or-destroy-the-bitcoin-foundation

[Gleb Gamow]

Thoughts are now on Let's Talk Bitcoin

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/how-to-save-or-destroy-the-bitcoin-foundation

Change one of the pics to the one above, then it's golden. 

[Gleb Gamow]

Happy New Year!

[erre]

The fundation is going to die due to low adoption. This forum have high adoption,but sadly mostly because people get paid to post.

I think we really need the " new forum" now, and it have to be something stunning. But I also fear that the money for the new forum got lost much time ago, so we can only hope for something different and better. An alt-forum

[EdenHazard]

We don't need the Bitcoin Foundation.
The attempt of Brock Pierce to repare it's reputation is a waste of time imo
and will burn more money which can be used more reasonable.
I see absolutely no reason for this thing to exist.

I do not agree with you, we really need bitcoin foundation, this will allow everyone to know about bitcoin, because bitcoin foundation will easily hold big events related to bitcoin.

[QuestionAuthority]

We don't need the Bitcoin Foundation.
The attempt of Brock Pierce to repare it's reputation is a waste of time imo
and will burn more money which can be used more reasonable.
I see absolutely no reason for this thing to exist.

I do not agree with you, we really need bitcoin foundation, this will allow everyone to know about bitcoin, because bitcoin foundation will easily hold big events related to bitcoin.

Wrong. I've been to a few of those events and the only people there are already dedicated bitcoiners because they want you to sell your house to pay the entrance fee. It's not worth having them around.

[charleshoskinson]

The Foundation's Response https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3zbswe/bitcoin_foundation_where_did_all_the_money_go/