y4x.com: BTC awarded on first block that has a bid

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Okay, I think I have some pretty bad luck - sent 0.100001 btc with proper fees, didn't get in the block which came after 5 minutes... And plus the "initial block didn't get in" happened to me too

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[BitcoinHoarder]

Okay, I think I have some pretty bad luck - sent 0.100001 btc with proper fees, didn't get in the block which came after 5 minutes... And plus the "initial block didn't get in" happened to me too

What do you mean "initial block didn't get in"?  You mean initial bid?

[Nite69]

Oh man ...

i did send 0.101 BTC to 1Y4wvaZXLNkSfYC4RCL9ZK4gvSYYFZovD ...
my Transaction got included in the Block, but not the Startingbet!!!

That System is bad

Maybe, last bet in the block afterto the block with the initionalbet should be the winner!?!

Same thing happened to me :

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4gqnxNJP5UK27EhKoc24AvJQtpKMEnY

This time, the initial bid *did not* have a fee, and it got included 3 blocks later!

Of course, the system tells the rules, so this is a known risk to the player. However, it makes the playing less attractive. I would also prefer a slight change to the rules; the winning bet should be searched from the block where the intial bed is *and* earlier blocks.

But of course, this is my opinion (and ThePok's ?), but  the host defines the rules...

Edit: hmm.. I think I actually won, but I only won back my bet, without the initial bed. And minus fees, of course :-D

Edit2: Here is the transaction where the win came to my wallet, if you are interested:
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/36240968/2487f45d1b3c369b1f493dbe35f00ab0224887f52fe6595ee409cda7a1ed997e

Argh, I just updated my bitcoind and I lost the paytxfee value, so indeed I was not attaching a fee to the initial bids.  This is fixed.  I have sent you the missing .10 that you should have had for the bid and I sent you an additional .25 for reporting the bug.  Thanks.

I am not an advocate of ensuring the initial bid is included for three reasons: 1) It is rare.  Excluding this issue where I wasn't sending a fee, the initial bid almost always get the first block.  2) The player is only losing a potential win, they get their initial bid back.  So yes, you don't get the initial bid but "no harm done".  3) This game is not about winning the initial bid, it's about winning the pot.  If there were more than 1 player on the pot then 99% of the payout will come from the bidding.

Ok, that sounds fair enought. The game is ok, as long the players know all the rules and agrees them by participating the game :-)

You just need more players. I'v been thinking.. just an idea; maybe the pool operators sees enought benefit with increased fees if they promote your game? Paying fees seems to increase the possibility of win so in the end pool operators will get moreprofit if this game became more popular? So it would not harm them, if they promote the game on their sites?

[Nite69]

Okay, I think I have some pretty bad luck - sent 0.100001 btc with proper fees, didn't get in the block which came after 5 minutes... And plus the "initial block didn't get in" happened to me too

Can you send the transaction id? I cannot find such game# in near past?

[Nite69]

I think players see an opponent as a threat more than an opportunity. So if there is someone already made a bid, people tend not to make a bigger bid because they are afraid of losing money. How would they see it more as an opportunity to earn even more, which it actually is? ;-)

[BitcoinHoarder]

I think players see an opponent as a threat more than an opportunity. So if there is someone already made a bid, people tend not to make a bigger bid because they are afraid of losing money. How would they see it more as an opportunity to earn even more, which it actually is? ;-)

Hmm, I think you are right...  Maybe I need to put more time between the pots so that each feel scarcer...  I don't know, I think you have a good point.  If someone has already bid, what is my incentive to bid, I know that someone with initiative is already betting.  If I bet I'm probably just going to get outbid.  Going to have to think about that...

[Nite69]

I will have my system automatically post the first bid at .1.  It's ok if I bid if I'm the first one.  If no one plays then I win my own with no gain.

btw, If I send smaller bid, will it win the initial bid? I assume not, and I think you should keep it that way. Otherwise you could end up with numerous bids with 0.0000001 increments.

Maybe I was wrong on this? Allowing smaller bid to win would make this a lot more attractive? Don't know..

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Okay, I think I have some pretty bad luck - sent 0.100001 btc with proper fees, didn't get in the block which came after 5 minutes... And plus the "initial block didn't get in" happened to me too

What do you mean "initial block didn't get in"?  You mean initial bid?

Yes, initial bid

I know the game is provably fair, just that I seem to be making up for everyone else winning lol.

[Nite69]

Looks like you can win, even if you send your bid a lot later than the initial bid; see round #535:

 http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4nWizG5ebNgUqHyHhbknE1gc2vnReXV

initial bid was made 2012-12-12 17:15:08, the winning bid (me :-) was at 2012-12-12 17:43:42, ie almost an half hour later.

Hmm.. however, I would guess you get better chances, if you bid asap after initial bid. But the difference might be smaller than one would think.

[Nite69]

Have you changed the starting algoritm? A couple of times the game has started just when I randomly go to the page. Or am I just being lucky?

Hmm.. anyway you woud not need to start the game, if there are no players ;-) You could delay the start until someone refreshes the page.

[BitcoinHoarder]

Looks like you can win, even if you send your bid a lot later than the initial bid; see round #535:

 http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4nWizG5ebNgUqHyHhbknE1gc2vnReXV

initial bid was made 2012-12-12 17:15:08, the winning bid (me :-) was at 2012-12-12 17:43:42, ie almost an half hour later.

Hmm.. however, I would guess you get better chances, if you bid asap after initial bid. But the difference might be smaller than one would think.

Correct, you can win ANYTIME you have the highest bid in the first block.  Blocks do take a long time, it's not that hard to get 30 minutes or an hour (although it is less common) between blocks.  In your case the initial bid was sent immediately and your bid 30 minutes later both made it into block # 211953.  That's just exactly the game.  The initial bid might be sent and ten seconds later it is in a block or it might drag on and on and on.  You never know.

If you send immediately then you have the maximum chance of getting included with the initial bid but you also have the maximum chance of being outbid.  So, again, that's the game.

[BitcoinHoarder]

Have you changed the starting algoritm? A couple of times the game has started just when I randomly go to the page. Or am I just being lucky?

Hmm.. anyway you woud not need to start the game, if there are no players ;-) You could delay the start until someone refreshes the page.

Exactly correct, I do not send the initial bid until the reveal address is seen by a player.  So imagine the database is configured to start a game at 12:00:00 PM.  12:00:00 PM may come but if the address has not been revealed to anyone then the initial bid is not sent and the game therefore can not prematurely end.  I put this in place so that games wouldn't be started by the initial bid and then ended without anyone ever seeing the address.

[Nite69]

Have you changed the starting algoritm? A couple of times the game has started just when I randomly go to the page. Or am I just being lucky?

Hmm.. anyway you woud not need to start the game, if there are no players ;-) You could delay the start until someone refreshes the page.

Exactly correct, I do not send the initial bid until the reveal address is seen by a player.  So imagine the database is configured to start a game at 12:00:00 PM.  12:00:00 PM may come but if the address has not been revealed to anyone then the initial bid is not sent and the game therefore can not prematurely end.  I put this in place so that games wouldn't be started by the initial bid and then ended without anyone ever seeing the address.

This is a very good improvement, I think. This makes it worthwhile for occasional visitor to start the game. So just prepare your wallet (once I did not have my wallet ready..) , go to the page and gamble! Visiting the page is specially good now when there are not many players. And of course, when the amount of players increase, winning is not as easy as now, but the price will be higher :-).

[Nite69]

The initial bid might be sent and ten seconds later it is in a block or it might drag on and on and on.  You never know.

If you send immediately then you have the maximum chance of getting included with the initial bid but you also have the maximum chance of being outbid.  So, again, that's the game.

Very true. Six Blocks 211975 - 211980 came in 8 minutes and I succeeded to win during that time :-)

[BitcoinHoarder]

The game has run it's course, thank you to everyone who played, I had a great time writing the scripts to work with bitcoind and the blockchain. 

[ThePok]

change the system. Make the Bids 1/10 of the initionbet. So it makes more sens to outbit others

[BitcoinHoarder]

change the system. Make the Bids 1/10 of the initionbet. So it makes more sens to outbit others

I already offer a 0.01 initial bid.  You are saying people want to bid lower than that?

[ThePok]

No, i dont want to saz that.

Make an Initialbet of 0.1btc and minimum first bid of 0.01btc
after first bit pot is 0.11btc after second bid it maz be 0.1201 and so on