[VIDEO] Expanding the Bitcoin Business Community

[Frequency]

Good vid, nice build up..offcourse also an commercial but nevertheless one of the better ones out there..

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[chriswilmer]

Thanks guys!

wow over 1000 views already on YouTube.  people are starting to be educated!

Today I watched a presentation you gave in May to VCs that I had found on youtube. This had special significance to me, as I just created a startup company about 10 months ago and was probably pitching to VCs at the same time you were, asking for similar amounts of money to be invested. It was particularly interesting how all of the VCs had heard of bitcoins already. I think it's a killer time for more bitcoin-based startups... so much opportunity.

Sorry for rambling. Great presentation skills for the win!

[Garr255]

Thanks for this

[Boussac]

Great presentation ! I would just suggest only two points are a bit far fetched:

1. Mag stripe vs EMV i.e the cross border capacity of credit cards: it is not a real weakness of debit cards for Europeans going to the US because EMV cards bear a mag stripe too. Conversely, using a mag stripe only card in Europe is possible at most of the POS. Fees are the real weakness because the bank cards become very expensive as soon as you travel.

2. Do it yourself: it is possible without using a hot wallet. See: www.microbitcoin.fr, a site I developped (ruby on rails) as a proof of concept using only a notification service (Bitping). No private keys are stored on the server. I am not a professional programmer myself: that shows how easy it can be to implement secure bitcoin acceptance.

Again, otherwise, an excellent job promoting bitcoin for merchants.

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Great presentation ! I would just suggest only two points are a bit far fetched:

1. Mag stripe vs EMV i.e the cross border capacity of credit cards: it is not a real weakness of debit cards for Europeans going to the US because EMV cards bear a mag stripe too. Conversely, using a mag stripe only card in Europe is possible at most of the POS. Fees are the real weakness because the bank cards become very expensive as soon as you travel.

2. Do it yourself: it is possible without using a hot wallet. See: www.microbitcoin.fr, a site I developped (ruby on rails) as a proof of concept using only a notification service (Bitping). No private keys are stored on the server. I am not a professional programmer myself: that shows how easy it can be to implement secure bitcoin acceptance.

Again, otherwise, an excellent job promoting bitcoin for merchants.

You are partly correct about the mag stripe, although look at the penalties and extra fees being imposed in Europe for using the mag stripe:

http://cphpost.dk/business/swipe-and-pay-fee-hit-customers

Also there are some simple DIY approaches for people that just want bitcoins donated into an address.  but for any type of automated workflow where you need to identify who just paid you, what's it for, is it the right amount, etc. the only real option is to write your own RPC calls into a hot wallet.

[gabbergabe]

May i create a hard copy on dvd?

[BitPay Business Solutions]

May i create a hard copy on dvd?

ok with me, just double check with the Bitcoin Summit organizers. 

[minimalB]

So many merchants. If only BitPay would put up a directory and help the community with discovery...

+1

Why is this list kept secret?

[BitPay Business Solutions]

So many merchants. If only BitPay would put up a directory and help the community with discovery...

+1

Why is this list kept secret?

Because we have competitors who like to email all of our merchants, soliciting to "save them 0.1%".

[caveden]

Why is this list kept secret?

Because we have competitors who like to email all of our merchants, soliciting to "save them 0.1%".

lol

Still, it's not by trying to prevent your customers from knowing your competitors that you'll keep them as customers. Actually, "desperate marketing" like this tends to backfire... it's like people that come to your home to sell you stuff. First thing I think to myself: if your product is really that good, why do you need to knock my door to try to convince me of it? Why isn't your product available at the Carrefour nearby?

Anyways, I'm among those who think you should consider publishing a directory - with the consent of your clients, of course, do not publicly list someone who doesn't want to be listed.

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Anyways, I'm among those who think you should consider publishing a directory - with the consent of your clients, of course, do not publicly list someone who doesn't want to be listed.

Agreed, we just don't have an efficient way to handle the opt-in and opt-out at the moment, we are just way too busy to try and ask 2000 people.  some day.

[jgarzik]

A business directory would be a great idea.  An edited business directory, independent of any one business (BitPay or anybody else).

Use trust metrics and pay attention to scam reports, BBB rankings, etc.

This could be a very positive force in the bitcoin community, a reliable website we can point new bitcoin users to, so that they may see all the trusted businesses that accept bitcoins.

[giszmo]

I'm sure you all know this video about the importance of the first follower. If I go to my local store and tell them to jump on the bitcoin band wagon, I'm essentially asking them to be the lone nut without a leader or better first followers to show them.
Make them visible and you will get more. There is no competition. The market is far from being saturated and you know that once bitcoin takes off, nobody will want you as a middle man neither. Not for converting bitcoins to funny money at least.

[franky1]

in regards to the bitpay 2000 businesses. me and a few others have already been thinking along the lines of this.

a website that has a directory of merchants and aids the adoption of new merchants without the troll chat that a forum normally brings with it.

feel free to add idea's to what the website should include and how to handle the idea's
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133801.0

[ArticMine]

No-chargebacks is a selling point for merchants (admittedly the target of the video), but consumers love chargebacks.  And there are ultimately far more consumers than merchants.

Jeff there is a big difference between a cardholder filing a dispute with a merchant, a cardholder using the dispute process to execute a scam ("friendly fraud"), and a cardholder having their account compromised with unauthorized charges.

To the merchants, all 3 of those scenarios appear the same, in the form of a chargeback.  However the account numbers being compromised are by far the major contributor to the $100B payment fraud.  Friendly fraud is also on the rise as people have learned how to abuse the system to commit shoplifting.

The legitimate disputes can be resolved by using an escrow transaction.

No argument.  But again, that is purely the merchant's view.

Consumers, at least here in the US, have been trained by well known consumer advocates such as Consumer Reports, Clark Howard, NACA members and the local news "consumer beat" that credit card purchases, in particular, have a level of consumer insurance built into them.  Every 5-10 years, a new layer of consumer protection regulations are added or updated as well.

The hurdles at the consumer level are twofold, assuming a future world where bitcoins see 1000x consumer and merchant acceptance (hey, 1000x is easily realistic in a few short years, given how small we are right now):

1) Education.  "Use an escrow transaction" is a foreign language, an alien concept to Aunt Tillie.  It is not realistic for average consumer use, unless the software tools and legal system both evolve significantly from where they are today.

2) Rational economic actor choices.  The current credit card system provides significant economic and legal protections to the consumer, while hiding the costs by making the merchants bury merchant fees inside the item price.  Buying an item sans merchant fees is not likely sufficient economic incentive to abandon the legal protections currently available, for average consumers.

Now, please, don't misunderstand.  What BitPay is doing is great -- I retweeted and promoted the video.  And it is a necessary step in bitcoin's evolution.

In an optimistic forecast, one could see bitcoin taking over the majority of hard-cash-like transfers.  I imagine merchants would prefer bitcoin over having to deduce whether or not a $20 bill is counterfeit, even using the latest ink tests and scanners one sees deployed at Wal-Mart, Target, payday loan and pawn shop locations.

But the huge amount of built-in consumer protections -- and associated consumer advocacy at all levels -- is an unquestionable hurdle.

It seems more realistic that bitcoin credit cards will arise, as an optional, supplemental layer on top of the base currency:  credit cards, with standard protections consumers expect, denominated purely in bitcoins.  Much like credit cards are an optional, supplemental layer atop the US Dollar right now.

That would at least be a familiar system to current consumers.

This post does raise a valid point in that if the consumer has a credit card and possibly a debit card attached to a bank account there is a significant incentive for the consumer to use the credit card over Bitcoin for an online payment. In my case I can use a credit card with 1% cash back. At the end of the year I receive a cheque from the credit card company which I promptly use to purchase Bitcoin, and conservatively my last "cash back" Bitcoin purchase has appreciated over 100%. So what is my personal incentive to use Bitcoin here?

The answer is that I am not the target demographic. The real target demographics are:
1) Those that do not have credit cards or debit cards attached to a bank account
2) Those that do not have credit cards.

These are the people that regularly use cash for in person transactions. It is not the myth of the senior living 50 years behind the times, but rather those that are young (teens and tweens), those that are poor, and those that have poor or no credit. I posted a thread on this back in February 2012 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63526.0 In the United States we have 29% of adults do not have a credit card and in over 7% of households there is nobody that has a bank account!

I really did enjoy the video and I must add that what was presented in the video is very accurate and well researched; however I still believe that the real incentive for an online merchant to accept Bitcoin is to sell to someone who is either 14 years old or has a FICO score of 350 or thereabouts. By the way this is a huge untapped market which the current banking system simply ignores.

[MooC Tals]

BITCOINS is the fucken future.

However I see a dark cloud that will make people believe that bitcoins is the wild west and we need a central authority to control bitcoin type of innovation.

Why?

PPL are stupid....

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BITCOINS is the fucken future.

However I see a dark cloud that will make people believe that bitcoins is the wild west and we need a central authority to control bitcoin type of innovation.

Why?

PPL are stupid....

Something like The Bitcoin Foundation?

[MooC Tals]

BITCOINS is the fucken future.

However I see a dark cloud that will make people believe that bitcoins is the wild west and we need a central authority to control bitcoin type of innovation.

Why?

PPL are stupid....

Something like The Bitcoin Foundation?

bitpay?