What does HD Wallets meaning ?

[outofmind]

Sorry if this question asked in wrong place or too stupid to ask.

I'm a frequent bitcoins user as well as investor, but I didn't really understand how different bitcoin wallets client works.
I want something that's safe, not relying on third party, but also comes with mobility, right now I'm using MyCelium HD Wallet.


So just quick question, does HD Wallet (MyCelium Android wallet), relies on 3rd party ?
The recover key were 12 different words, is it possible to recover my wallet with this 12 different words on different client ?

What is the safest wallet that met below criteria ?
Doesn't rely on 3rd party
Mobility(Apps/easy to recover on different devices)
Security

[VirosaGITS]

Sorry if this question asked in wrong place or too stupid to ask.

I'm a frequent bitcoins user as well as investor, but I didn't really understand how different bitcoin wallets client works.
I want something that's safe, not relying on third party, but also comes with mobility, right now I'm using MyCelium HD Wallet.


So just quick question, does HD Wallet (MyCelium Android wallet), relies on 3rd party ?
The recover key were 12 different words, is it possible to recover my wallet with this 12 different words on different client ?

What is the safest wallet that met below criteria ?
Doesn't rely on 3rd party
Mobility(Apps/easy to recover on different devices)
Security

All the same, there is a list of which relies on 3rd party and which does not on the bitcoin.orp's official page;
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

HD means hyperdeterministic. Means with your wallet words, you can retrieve you wallet with just your words, no need for the wallet.dat etc. In a nutshell its a method of generating the subsequent privkeys. While non HD would have to be pre generated "manually" any keys after that would be lost if you did not have a wallet.dat backup.

More info;
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw-1385450276

[equator]

Sorry if this question asked in wrong place or too stupid to ask.

I'm a frequent bitcoins user as well as investor, but I didn't really understand how different bitcoin wallets client works.
I want something that's safe, not relying on third party, but also comes with mobility, right now I'm using MyCelium HD Wallet.


So just quick question, does HD Wallet (MyCelium Android wallet), relies on 3rd party ?
The recover key were 12 different words, is it possible to recover my wallet with this 12 different words on different client ?

What is the safest wallet that met below criteria ?
Doesn't rely on 3rd party
Mobility(Apps/easy to recover on different devices)
Security

All the same, there is a list of which relies on 3rd party and which does not on the bitcoin.orp's official page;
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

HD means hyperdeterministic. Means with your wallet words, you can retrieve you wallet with just your words, no need for the wallet.dat etc. In a nutshell its a method of generating the subsequent privkeys. While non HD would have to be pre generated "manually" any keys after that would be lost if you did not have a wallet.dat backup.

More info;
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw-1385450276

Thanks a lot man, i was also having some doubt in HD meaning, now i understands it, i am using electrum hardware wallet , if i have lost it i just have to feed my seed key and i can open that wallet any where just i have to download windows installation wallet and feed my seed key and it opens it.

One doubt if i lost my seed key can i retrive my wallet with any other method, as their is no wallet.dat file in this wallet software.

[VirosaGITS]

Thanks a lot man, i was also having some doubt in HD meaning, now i understands it, i am using electrum hardware wallet , if i have lost it i just have to feed my seed key and i can open that wallet any where just i have to download windows installation wallet and feed my seed key and it opens it.

One doubt if i lost my seed key can i retrive my wallet with any other method, as their is no wallet.dat file in this wallet software.

I don't know how Electrum save its data, its definitively there somewhere but its probably not called wallet.dat.

I use Multibit HD which save a backup of it in a specific place every pretty much relevant moment + every X time. So you can recover your wallet with your password with that. If you lose your password, you need the words. If you lose both you're screwed.

[outofmind]

Sorry if this question asked in wrong place or too stupid to ask.

I'm a frequent bitcoins user as well as investor, but I didn't really understand how different bitcoin wallets client works.
I want something that's safe, not relying on third party, but also comes with mobility, right now I'm using MyCelium HD Wallet.


So just quick question, does HD Wallet (MyCelium Android wallet), relies on 3rd party ?
The recover key were 12 different words, is it possible to recover my wallet with this 12 different words on different client ?

What is the safest wallet that met below criteria ?
Doesn't rely on 3rd party
Mobility(Apps/easy to recover on different devices)
Security

All the same, there is a list of which relies on 3rd party and which does not on the bitcoin.orp's official page;
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

HD means hyperdeterministic. Means with your wallet words, you can retrieve you wallet with just your words, no need for the wallet.dat etc. In a nutshell its a method of generating the subsequent privkeys. While non HD would have to be pre generated "manually" any keys after that would be lost if you did not have a wallet.dat backup.

More info;
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw-1385450276

No, I do understand that, the part I didn't understand is, does the recover of HD Account requires 3rd party verifications ?
Or they use a same standard across all HD wallets ? That means I could use my 12 words to recover on other HD Wallet Clients ?

[VirosaGITS]

No, I do understand that, the part I didn't understand is, does the recover of HD Account requires 3rd party verifications ?
Or they use a same standard across all HD wallets ? That means I could use my 12 words to recover on other HD Wallet Clients ?

HD has nothing to do with 3rd party, at all. So no. And no some HD wallet use different seed method, but that is outlined when you create or restore a wallet, it tells you which protocol it use.

So no, some wallet are compatible with some others, but this is a non-issue. You can simply restore the wallet with the original client, then move the funds to whatever wallet in the world you want.

[outofmind]

No, I do understand that, the part I didn't understand is, does the recover of HD Account requires 3rd party verifications ?
Or they use a same standard across all HD wallets ? That means I could use my 12 words to recover on other HD Wallet Clients ?

HD has nothing to do with 3rd party, at all. So no. And no some HD wallet use different seed method, but that is outlined when you create or restore a wallet, it tells you which protocol it use.

So no, some wallet are compatible with some others, but this is a non-issue. You can simply restore the wallet with the original client, then move the funds to whatever wallet in the world you want.

If I'm not wrong, which is BIP38 and BIP44 ?
btw is there any chance someone could generate lots of possible words combination and trying them one by one, so they might be possible of stealing the money in our wallet ?

[VirosaGITS]

No, I do understand that, the part I didn't understand is, does the recover of HD Account requires 3rd party verifications ?
Or they use a same standard across all HD wallets ? That means I could use my 12 words to recover on other HD Wallet Clients ?

HD has nothing to do with 3rd party, at all. So no. And no some HD wallet use different seed method, but that is outlined when you create or restore a wallet, it tells you which protocol it use.

So no, some wallet are compatible with some others, but this is a non-issue. You can simply restore the wallet with the original client, then move the funds to whatever wallet in the world you want.

If I'm not wrong, which is BIP38 and BIP44 ?
btw is there any chance someone could generate lots of possible words combination and trying them one by one, so they might be possible of stealing the money in our wallet ?

Yes, absolutely possible. Just like its absolutely possible to brute force the privkey with millions of BTC on it. But it might take a few millions years. You might be surprised with how many words combination there is. Also the one i use has 21 words i think so its a even more crazy amount of possibility.

But 12 words does feel a bit lackluster in comparision, i'll give you that. And i think Multibit HD is BIP32, but thats just on top of my head, either way it doesnt really matter.

[outofmind]

No, I do understand that, the part I didn't understand is, does the recover of HD Account requires 3rd party verifications ?
Or they use a same standard across all HD wallets ? That means I could use my 12 words to recover on other HD Wallet Clients ?

HD has nothing to do with 3rd party, at all. So no. And no some HD wallet use different seed method, but that is outlined when you create or restore a wallet, it tells you which protocol it use.

So no, some wallet are compatible with some others, but this is a non-issue. You can simply restore the wallet with the original client, then move the funds to whatever wallet in the world you want.

If I'm not wrong, which is BIP38 and BIP44 ?
btw is there any chance someone could generate lots of possible words combination and trying them one by one, so they might be possible of stealing the money in our wallet ?

Yes, absolutely possible. Just like its absolutely possible to brute force the privkey with millions of BTC on it. But it might take a few millions years. You might be surprised with how many words combination there is. Also the one i use has 21 words i think so its a even more crazy amount of possibility.

But 12 words does feel a bit lackluster in comparision, i'll give you that. And i think Multibit HD is BIP32, but thats just on top of my head, either way it doesnt really matter.

Alright thanks for the reply, I could approximately guess the time needed to 12 words combination depends on the alphabet contained in one words, and possibilites etc,
but seems like it's gonna be safe for the next few year before quantum computing become mainstream, but I believe they'll update too.

[Erkallys]

Sorry if this question asked in wrong place or too stupid to ask.

I'm a frequent bitcoins user as well as investor, but I didn't really understand how different bitcoin wallets client works.
I want something that's safe, not relying on third party, but also comes with mobility, right now I'm using MyCelium HD Wallet.


So just quick question, does HD Wallet (MyCelium Android wallet), relies on 3rd party ?
The recover key were 12 different words, is it possible to recover my wallet with this 12 different words on different client ?

What is the safest wallet that met below criteria ?
Doesn't rely on 3rd party
Mobility(Apps/easy to recover on different devices)
Security

All the same, there is a list of which relies on 3rd party and which does not on the bitcoin.orp's official page;
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

HD means hyperdeterministic. Means with your wallet words, you can retrieve you wallet with just your words, no need for the wallet.dat etc. In a nutshell its a method of generating the subsequent privkeys. While non HD would have to be pre generated "manually" any keys after that would be lost if you did not have a wallet.dat backup.

More info;
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw-1385450276

I didn't know that it meant that. I thought that Multibit HD was standing for High Definition, a reference to it's nice interface.

[SuperCoinGuy]

I tried to recover my wallets on different bitcoin wallet apps and it worked so I guess I don't need any passwords just to memorize the 12 words and it's good to go right?

[btcprospecter]

It took me a while to figure it out as well at first. Then I had to start rushing around to find a pen and paper for my word string. At first I did not know what I was doing when I created the HD wallet good thing I wrote everything down

[franky1]

One doubt if i lost my seed key can i retrive my wallet with any other method, as their is no wallet.dat file in this wallet software.

the seed can be stored any way you like. after all a wallet.dat file is just a file. so write your seed in notepad. save it. and then put it on several memory sticks .. just like you would with wallet.dat.

if you want it password protected. use winzip or winrar to zip the file and add a password to it. then no random prying eyes will see your seed.txt as clear plaintext as its locked into a passworded zipfile.

you can also do some crazy things too..

like get a random book. and as you read it. note the pagenumber, line and word of line where the individal seed words appear

eg an excert of chapter 65 of mobydick

That mortal man should feed upon the creature that feeds his lamp, and, like Stubb, eat him by
his own light, as you may say; this seems so outlandish a thing that one must needs go a little
into the history and philosophy of it.

It is upon record, that three centuries ago the tongue of the Right Whale was esteemed a great
 delicacy in France, and commanded large prices there. Also, that in Henry VIIIth’s time, a
certain cook of the court obtained a handsome reward for inventing an admirable sauce to be
eaten with barbacued porpoises, which, you remember, are a species of whale. Porpoises,
indeed, are to this day considered fine eating. The meat is made into balls about the size of
billiard balls, and being well seasoned and spiced might be taken for turtle-balls or veal balls.
The old monks of Dunfermline were very fond of them. They had a great porpoise grant from
the crown.

imagine the seed was
mortal    philosophy    veal    species     porpoises

you can encode it
C65-L1-W2:C65-L3-W5:C65-L9-W15:C65-L7-W10:C65-L7-W13

where only you know its related to moby dick then save that to zip passworded file.

the other good thing is that before you even start. you can select your own words so that its easier to remember rather than being on paper thus not relying on words provided to you. but instead inputting words you want

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

One doubt if i lost my seed key can i retrive my wallet with any other method, as their is no wallet.dat file in this wallet software.

the seed can be stored any way you like. after all a wallet.dat file is just a file. so write your seed in notepad. save it. and then put it on several memory sticks .. just like you would with wallet.dat.

if you want it password protected. use winzip or winrar to zip the file and add a password to it. then no random prying eyes will see your seed.txt as clear plaintext as its locked into a passworded zipfile.

you can also do some crazy things too..

like get a random book. and as you read it. note the pagenumber, line and word of line where the individal seed words appear

eg an excert of chapter 65 of mobydick

That mortal man should feed upon the creature that feeds his lamp, and, like Stubb, eat him by
his own light, as you may say; this seems so outlandish a thing that one must needs go a little
into the history and philosophy of it.

It is upon record, that three centuries ago the tongue of the Right Whale was esteemed a great
 delicacy in France, and commanded large prices there. Also, that in Henry VIIIth’s time, a
certain cook of the court obtained a handsome reward for inventing an admirable sauce to be
eaten with barbacued porpoises, which, you remember, are a species of whale. Porpoises,
indeed, are to this day considered fine eating. The meat is made into balls about the size of
billiard balls, and being well seasoned and spiced might be taken for turtle-balls or veal balls.
The old monks of Dunfermline were very fond of them. They had a great porpoise grant from
the crown.

imagine the seed was
mortal    philosophy    veal    species     porpoises

you can encode it
C65-L1-W2:C65-L3-W5:C65-L9-W15:C65-L7-W10:C65-L7-W13

where only you know its related to moby dick then save that to zip passworded file.

the other good thing is that before you even start. you can select your own words so that its easier to remember rather than being on paper thus not relying on words provided to you. but instead inputting words you want

That's a really clever way to store your seed (the saving up character and lines and number of word in a page..) this way you would never forget (well as long as you get that enconded string of characters).

But something in me makes me to still trust more a wallet.dat file encrypted and hidden in some encrypted volume offline and with a couple of copies (with a password you can remember) since I heard about the brainwallet hack incident.

[helloeverybody]

At first i couldnt understand what was going on with my wallet when i installed an HD one since i was used to bitcoin core, But since using it i have found its much easier for maintaining privacy due to it automatically creating new addresses for you. Use mine most everyday now.

[Jeremycoin]

HD Wallet = generate a new address every time you receive a transaction
And of course it's more safer

[maokoto]

Great question (I did not know myself) and great answers too. I once thought that the wallet.dat held the blocks downloaded from the blockchain and it would be too costly to make a backup (lol). Although the wallet.dat is not that difficult to backup, It is even better to know you can memorize the passphrase and have a backup of your wallet in your head.

[franky1]

Great question (I did not know myself) and great answers too. I once thought that the wallet.dat held the blocks downloaded from the blockchain and it would be too costly to make a backup (lol). Although the wallet.dat is not that difficult to backup, It is even better to know you can memorize the passphrase and have a backup of your wallet in your head.

the problem with backing up a wallet.dat. is that when you next send a transaction. it creates a new 'change' address created randomly and stores that to the wallet.dat.

making the backup instantly out of date as the backup doesnt have that new randomly generated change address, and requires re-backing up every time you do a transaction.

with HD seeds you dont need to worry
because private keys are created using the same seed.
laymens(not exact coding so dont judge)

key1=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises1)
key2=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises2)
key3=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises3)
and so on
so as long as you know the seed eg mortal philosophy veal species porpoises    then the program will always be able to append the numberic sequence to get all the addresses attached to that seed

[pereira4]

Great question (I did not know myself) and great answers too. I once thought that the wallet.dat held the blocks downloaded from the blockchain and it would be too costly to make a backup (lol). Although the wallet.dat is not that difficult to backup, It is even better to know you can memorize the passphrase and have a backup of your wallet in your head.

the problem with backing up a wallet.dat. is that when you next send a transaction. it creates a new 'change' address created randomly and stores that to the wallet.dat.

making the backup instantly out of date as the backup doesnt have that new randomly generated change address, and requires re-backing up every time you do a transaction.

with HD seeds you dont need to worry
because private keys are created using the same seed.
laymens(not exact coding so dont judge)

key1=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises1)
key2=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises2)
key3=hash(mortalphilosophyvealspeciesporpoises3)
and so on
so as long as you know the seed eg mortal philosophy veal species porpoises    then the program will always be able to append the numberic sequence to get all the addresses attached to that seed

True.. maintaining a wallet.dat updated is pretty annoying cause everytime you create a new recieving address you need to copy paste it into every single device that you are storing a backup

My question is: why is Core still dealing with this method of creating addresses if HD is so great? there must be some tradeoffs that make wallet.dat as it is now in Core not being HD, some security concenrs? or in the future we can enjoy HD in Core too and not worry about copying wallet.dat a million times?

[Blawpaw]

No Mycelium doesn't rely on a third party to secure your keys. Your keys are kept in your hardware wallet, so the user is always on total control of their secret keys.