Looking for escrow on $1mm deal

[yopb2c2]

Hi,

We are entering a contract to sell approximately $1mm worth of BTC a month to a corporate buyer, in daily transactions of approximately $30k.

We would like to deliver the BTC to a multi-sig account where a trusted third party would secure them while we are receiving funds from the counterparty.

I saw the list of escrow agents on the forum but I think this is a bigger deal than they are used to. Obviously we would pay a fee much lower than 1%.

In addition, this would be done entirely in the clear (legal contracts and real-world identities!).

Please let me know if you know a guy who knows a guy who... :-)

[Heutenamos]

Hi,

We are entering a contract to sell approximately $1mm worth of BTC a month to a corporate buyer, in daily transactions of approximately $30k.

We would like to deliver the BTC to a multi-sig account where a trusted third party would secure them while we are receiving funds from the counterparty.

I saw the list of escrow agents on the forum but I think this is a bigger deal than they are used to. Obviously we would pay a fee much lower than 1%.

In addition, this would be done entirely in the clear (legal contracts and real-world identities!).

Please let me know if you know a guy who knows a guy who... :-)

Definitely not online. NO NO NO NO & NO.

I would say that only two people who are well familiar (experienced) with thousands of coins are these two, you need to ask them bout the anonymity issue though.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3420    :  owner of just-dice.com
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292   : owner of Primedice.com

[Robertt]

Id ask the owner of bustabit to escrow.
His name is Ryan, forum name is Rhavar or something.

[yopb2c2]

Definitely not online. NO NO NO NO & NO.

Thank you. What do you mean by "not online"?

[yahoo62278]

I personally would love to get into escrowing for users since i manage so many different signature campaigns on this forum. The problem i see with your proposal is the fact that you are proposing your offer just like everyone else on this forum. Everyone wants a job done but they want to pay bottom dollar for it.

My opinion is you want a job done correct? You also want someone who is trustworthy and will get the job done correct? Well pay them for their work. The reason this forum doesnt have any huge escrows or anyone willing to get involved is the simple fact that noone wants to actually pay them for their work. I posted this quote in another thread on here. " Hey i need you to do something that helps me greatly but i dont wanna pay you shit for doing it!!!!"

Why would anyone care to help someone else out and do all the work for pennies? Yes i understand this is a large deal but the fee should be there regardless of the amount of any deal. 1% is way too low IMO but possibly doable being as the size of the deal is large but less than 1% youre not gonna find anyone but a theif.

[TheButterZone]

If the counterparties to the escrow know 100% how 2-of-3 or 3-of-3 multi-sig works, they can grill any potential escrow agent to test their expertise. It's not so much that they're trying not to find a thief, it's that they want someone who can't be bribed to collude with one counterparty. The legal contracts and real-world identities would deter bribery.

[RCHumphrey]

Think this is a joke.

No corporate buyer would completely entrust the seller to choose an escrow... and definitely not one from this forum which is sadly full of scammers who will rob you for $1000 even with a dark trusted account.

You can't do this online easily, should be done face to face with legal representation ideally.

[mexxer-2]

Definitely not online. NO NO NO NO & NO.

I would say that only two people who are well familiar (experienced) with thousands of coins are these two, you need to ask them bout the anonymity issue though.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3420    :  owner of just-dice.com
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292   : owner of Primedice.com

Lets not forget John K. (max amount 1k BTC for forum), Danny and Dabs(max amount dealt with is, ~10 BTC)
Some other people who have conducted high amounts of BTC for escrow
Garr255(200 BTC)
Blazed(400 BTC)

[starsoccer9]

I can do this for you. If you want you can use my website, escrowmybits.com, but for such a large amount I understand if you would prefer it not be via the website. I have sent you a pm, feel free to reply back when you have a chance.

[Operatr]

Think this is a joke.

No corporate buyer would completely entrust the seller to choose an escrow... and definitely not one from this forum which is sadly full of scammers who will rob you for $1000 even with a dark trusted account.

You can't do this online easily, should be done face to face with legal representation ideally.

+1, was thinking the exact same thing.

[Heutenamos]

Definitely not online. NO NO NO NO & NO.

Thank you. What do you mean by "not online"?

Meet the people in real world and proceed because of this and many other reasons.

it's that they want someone who can't be bribed to collude with one counterparty. The legal contracts and real-world identities would deter bribery.

" Hey i need you to do something that helps me greatly but i dont wanna pay you shit for doing it!!!!"

Most of the popular escrow's are on DT and with some right's,right ? but what do you think are their duties ? The most common is to save people from getting scammed or basically protection of the forum members.Not just to make people red and violate as you think.

If you need your cut for everything you do then why the fuck are you trusted and even involved in a business which requires security for members in one way or the other ? (not accusing you but in general)

Sebastianju has been es-crowing since years and he doesn't has any fees.This guy is a clear example why the forum people should respect DT and value them for the effort they put on saving people from scams and other possible losses.

1% is way too low IMO but possibly doable being as the size of the deal is large but less than 1% youre not gonna find anyone but a theif.

OK, so you need more than 10k $ just to throw away some days at max ? I don't think he is asking bill gates to escrow.I doubt if everyone is money hungry and a thief if they aren't.

Definitely not online. NO NO NO NO & NO.

I would say that only two people who are well familiar (experienced) with thousands of coins are these two, you need to ask them bout the anonymity issue though.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3420    :  owner of just-dice.com
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292   : owner of Primedice.com

Lets not forget John K. (max amount 1k BTC for forum), Danny and Dabs(max amount dealt with is, ~10 BTC)
Some other people who have conducted high amounts of BTC for escrow
Garr255(200 BTC)
Blazed(400 BTC)

Nothing in millions and what is there to lose ? while trusting someone the first thing to consider is the gains and losses for him.

[mexxer-2]

Nothing in millions

Well you said, no one here had any experience with thousands of BTC. Just gave an example of the closest(except the ones you listed)

[Quickseller]

I would suggest that you use some kind of company that has experience in dealing with large amounts of other people's money, and has a long history of releasing money when requested to do so. The only bitcoin related entity that would meet this criteria that offers escrow services would be LBC (local bitcoins). I believe that they charge 2% of the amount held in escrow, although they may be willing to negotiate this rate.

If you are looking for someone to charge a small amount to hold escrow then you are going to increase your chances that the person you are dealing with is not going to be willing to release escrow.

[notaek]

Why would anyone care to help someone else out and do all the work for pennies? Yes i understand this is a large deal but the fee should be there regardless of the amount of any deal. 1% is way too low IMO but possibly doable being as the size of the deal is large but less than 1% youre not gonna find anyone but a theif.

True fact. A free escrow can be done upto a certain limit where the escrow provider doesn't have to take extra precaution for holding the funds.
But for the said amount a significant amount of fees is a must for escrow to done safely. One such instance is bitpop who always take fees (at least transaction fees) even if you escrow 0.001BTC to him and I respect him for that. Escrowing such a huge amount is not an easy task to manage and for that 1% fee is never enough. I will never go for an escrow where one does it for free or a much lesser fee because it seems too good to be true for me.

If the counterparties to the escrow know 100% how 2-of-3 or 3-of-3 multi-sig works, they can grill any potential escrow agent to test their expertise. It's not so much that they're trying not to find a thief, it's that they want someone who can't be bribed to collude with one counterparty. The legal contracts and real-world identities would deter bribery.

Then a 4 of 5 multi-sig or more than that will definitely work. Also I would like to add that each one should share their valid identity proofs though video taping because $1M isn't a matter of joke. Nobody should just judge a person having +1000 trust with that amount.

I can do this for you. If you want you can use my website, escrowmybits.com, but for such a large amount I understand if you would prefer it not be via the website. I have sent you a pm, feel free to reply back when you have a chance.

How safe and reliable it is to ensure OP that the site won't go offline after receiving the funds?

[MRKLYE]

Only person trustworthy enough to do this escrow is dooglus imho. Dude had over $60 Million worth of others BTC at one point and didn't pull a runner

[Heutenamos]

I will never go for an escrow where one does it for free or a much lesser fee because it seems too good to be true for me.

No it's not to good to be true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1102721

Then a 4 of 5 multi-sig or more than that will definitely work. Also I would like to add that each one should share their valid identity proofs though video taping because $1M isn't a matter of joke. Nobody should just judge a person having +1000 trust with that amount.

That's what, If you know the real identities then it decreases the 99% risk involved out of a hundred.

Nothing in millions

Well you said, no one here had any experience with thousands of BTC. Just gave an example of the closest(except the ones you listed)

Yes of course,those are the closest.

[yopb2c2]

Thanks for your help guys. It is real. Note that each transaction would be max ~$200k though, so it's millions over time but not in one go.

I don't understand the person who claimed we are only willing to pay pennies. We are looking for a bitcoin-based solution here because real-world escrow is expensive (our lawyers cost $500+ per hour) and frankly if Bitcoin can't be used for this, then it's not worth much. So yes we are willing to pay but does anyone expect to earn 1% of $1mm just to click a few buttons? (the deal is pretty straightforward, and dispute resolution is trivial)

Anyways, if someone can solve Herstatt risk (google it) in bitcoin-vs-fiat transactions then we'll make sure they are paid dearly.

Looking at your links, it seems like a low fee in case the transaction goes smoothly and a high fee if there's a dispute seems like a good idea.

Having a look at your PMs now



Edit: some replies miss the fact that the notional value of a deal (here, $1mm) does not always inform its profitability (here, a grand or two perhaps). For instance, when you buy $1mm worth of EUR/USD on the interbank market, the seller makes less than $100.

[Heutenamos]

Thanks for your help guys. It is real. Note that each transaction would be max ~$200k though, so it's millions over time but not in one go.

I don't understand the person who claimed we are only willing to pay pennies. We are looking for a bitcoin-based solution here because real-world escrow is expensive (our lawyers cost $500+ per hour) and frankly if Bitcoin can't be used for this, then it's not worth much. So yes we are willing to pay but does anyone expect to earn 1% of $1mm just to click a few buttons? (the deal is pretty straightforward, and dispute resolution is trivial)

Anyways, if someone can solve Herstatt risk (google it) in bitcoin-vs-fiat transactions then we'll make sure they are paid dearly.

Looking at your links, it seems like a low fee in case the transaction goes smoothly and a high fee if there's a dispute seems like a good idea.

Having a look at your PMs now



Edit: some replies miss the fact that the notional value of a deal (here, $1mm) does not always inform its profitability (here, a grand or two perhaps). For instance, when you buy $1mm worth of EUR/USD on the interbank market, the seller makes less than $100.

You can even try 'coblee' ,i mean explore as far as possible before you step in.

https://www.bitrated.com/explore

[notaek]

No it's not to good to be true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1102721

Never trust anyone with mere numbers.
First things first - Need for full personal verification before proceeding with some serious transactions.

You can even try 'coblee' ,i mean explore as far as possible before you step in.

Yes, Charlie Lee would be the best option IMHO.
He is in crypto for a long time and has a strong background base.

I think Herstatt risk wouldn't be much of a problem for Bitcoin transactions.

[SebastianJu]

Why would anyone care to help someone else out and do all the work for pennies? Yes i understand this is a large deal but the fee should be there regardless of the amount of any deal. 1% is way too low IMO but possibly doable being as the size of the deal is large but less than 1% youre not gonna find anyone but a theif.

True fact. A free escrow can be done upto a certain limit where the escrow provider doesn't have to take extra precaution for holding the funds.
But for the said amount a significant amount of fees is a must for escrow to done safely. One such instance is bitpop who always take fees (at least transaction fees) even if you escrow 0.001BTC to him and I respect him for that. Escrowing such a huge amount is not an easy task to manage and for that 1% fee is never enough. I will never go for an escrow where one does it for free or a much lesser fee because it seems too good to be true for me.

I'm offering escrow for free but that doesn't mean that i pay the fees. If i get 1 Bitcoin into escrow and i don't receive a tip with it then the seller can only receive 1 Bitcoin minus fee obviously.

Free escrow doesn't mean that i don't get tips. In fact free escrows might even get more than escrows with a fixed fee since users have to think about a tip for themselves. Even though some don't tip there are some who will tip more, simply because they like the fact that you don't demand a fee or to show their appreciation of the service.

And if you check out my servicethread at [ANN] SebastianJu - Free Legendary Escrow Service - Escrowed over 8150 BTC then you can see that i did not scam even when i could have been rich by doing so potentially.

I started to offering escrow because i was scammed way too often and i don't like scammers because of that. In order to help others protect themselfes and stop scammers i could do this VERY often already. That's pleasing in itself and getting tips additionally is nice.

If the counterparties to the escrow know 100% how 2-of-3 or 3-of-3 multi-sig works, they can grill any potential escrow agent to test their expertise. It's not so much that they're trying not to find a thief, it's that they want someone who can't be bribed to collude with one counterparty. The legal contracts and real-world identities would deter bribery.

Then a 4 of 5 multi-sig or more than that will definitely work. Also I would like to add that each one should share their valid identity proofs though video taping because $1M isn't a matter of joke. Nobody should just judge a person having +1000 trust with that amount.

I think for that sum it really would be best to have a network of highly trusted escrows involved. Something like 4 of 5, similar to the escrow network suggested by grtthegreat. It would be highly unlikely that a scam can happen then.

I could provide my real identity but would do so only after i learn to know the company who wants to buy. In fact i doubt this is a real offer, a company could simply buy their coins on an exchange, except they need to hide some black money or so that they would need to hide from official investigations. Being involved in this with your real identity sounds might be pretty risky legallywise. The same goes when you would receive fiat on your bank account. It could come from phished bank accounts and you would be forced to pay it back to the bank accounts it was stolen from. Then you would need to hope the bitcoin seller has given his real identity. Because you would need to get it back from him then.

Anyway, if this is real i would check it out.

[SebastianJu]

Only person trustworthy enough to do this escrow is dooglus imho. Dude had over $60 Million worth of others BTC at one point and didn't pull a runner

I agree that dooglus probably had the highest amount of coins value in escrow (he is no normal escrow but still holds funds for others which makes him an escrow) and he paid back all of it. He is probably the person i trust the most on the forum when it comes to holding funds. He proofed that he is reliable and i really like that.

[badjacks99]

Maybe I missed something but wouldn't it be a lot wiser to do such a deal in person? With so much money, and anything could go wrong I wouldn't be trusting anyone to handle it. I would reconsider handling this online, and just not do it period. Face to face is the only way this make sense to me. Good luck to you, whatever you do.

[SebastianJu]

Edit: some replies miss the fact that the notional value of a deal (here, $1mm) does not always inform its profitability (here, a grand or two perhaps). For instance, when you buy $1mm worth of EUR/USD on the interbank market, the seller makes less than $100.

Though, as far as i understand it, the risk there would be practically zero, that is why the profit is so low. Everyone would do it. Dealing with a random company on the internet in fact involves risk. You never know what kind of money you deal with. Doing such a deal as the trader and only earning 1000USD does not look like it's worth the risk since even when you have this amount of money, earning 1000$ means that your risk are 1 Million USD. You give your legit money and you maybe receive stolen money or otherwise money that can be taken away from you by the law. Then you might be not able to recover it because of the legal status of the money or because the trading partner can not pay.

Really, if i would have 1 Million USD then i would be very cautious. Take this from someone who had to learn it the hard way (Lost ALOT) that investing, which such a trade is too, always means losing everything you invest for the chance to receive your investment back plus a profit. But there is the chance that you either not even get your investment back or that you receive what you should receive but have it taken away afterwards.

Please check really carefully if your deal is legit and safe for you.

[yopb2c2]

Hi,

I want to reassure everyone as to the good standing of the two companies. It's all legit. The problem is that even legit companies don't always have strong financials. Now regarding buying on exchanges instead, some companies are unable to do so for various reasons. In addition, they need to pay fees to the exchanges whereas they pay no fees with us.

I appreciate all the good referrals. Now if I may ask - how does one go about setting up a multi-sig transaction? I've read about Armory Lockboxes online. Is that the best? Any alternatives? I'm a bit concerned about the potential loss of keys with Armory.

Thanks

[starsoccer9]

Hi,

I want to reassure everyone as to the good standing of the two companies. It's all legit. The problem is that even legit companies don't always have strong financials. Now regarding buying on exchanges instead, some companies are unable to do so for various reasons. In addition, they need to pay fees to the exchanges whereas they pay no fees with us.

I appreciate all the good referrals. Now if I may ask - how does one go about setting up a multi-sig transaction? I've read about Armory Lockboxes online. Is that the best? Any alternatives? I'm a bit concerned about the potential loss of keys with Armory.

Thanks

If you do not trust armory, you could always use paper wallets where you have the private keys physically written down somewhere.