FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC)

[galambo]

Just to give everyone and idea of where Freicoin is right now I made a graph of our hash rate. Have a great rest of the week.

[1715304613]

1715304613

[420]

Why can't mine FRC at coinotron?

[galambo]

Why can't mine FRC at coinotron?

What's coin-o-tron?

The easiest way to get started on Windows is to make sure you have the latest graphic drivers for your card, then launch the GUI miner program:

https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=3878.0

Create a new OpenCL miner from the menu (try the other choices if OpenCL gives you trouble), and configure it with the following options:

Server: Other
Host: pool.freico.in
Port: 9638
Username: (your freicoin address, from the client, or from bitaddress.org (print this out if you use it))
Password: 123 (can be anything, but must not be empty; not used)

Ignore the extra flags for now (efficiency settings - you can research that later). Hit 'start mining' (you may have to resize the dialog box to see the button).

[420]

far as I know the biggest alt coin mining pool

http://coinotron.com

[galambo]

far as I know the biggest alt coin mining pool

http://coinotron.com

PPS is a little bit harder to setup for Freicoin because each block has a slightly different reward value. A lot of the pool operators are still working on a solution to this. As I quoted before, the easiest way to mine is with p2pool

[sangaman]

So after 161280 the reward drops down to demurraged coins only?

Yes, but only the foundation feels that drop directly. It's a smooth transition for the miners.

But if you just stick them in an offline wallet, don't they just disappear at a rate of 4%? The whole idea was to keep people from hoarding, right? So you can't just stick it in an offline wallet. It will just disappear. But of course, there isn't actually anything to do with FRC so what else can do you do with it?  

We have to be careful to distinguish between now, a scant few days after the currency has launched and no services are available, and years from now when the Freicoin economy is fully developed. In the long term, Freicoin will reach a steady-state value, and not move much up or down in buying power. But for now, any value is speculative, and this is a good time (probably the best time) to pick up cheap coins.

In the long term cold storage of freicoins is a losing proposition, but for now it makes sense. Freicoin's value will be speculative until an economy develops around it.

Grunching a bit here, but this post gives me the creeps. It reads like an advertisement. This is the best time to buy! Make huge profits when in a few years everyone uses freicoin!

First of all, the coins have to appreciate by >5% to really be worth investing in now at all. Yes that's humble compared to early bitcoin gains but not really in the grand scheme of things. More importantly, if you truly believed what you said in this post you should be snapping up as many cheap freicoins as possible. Making these claims seems misleading.

Lastly, it's odd to encourage hoarding of an anti-hoarding currency.

[maaku]

First of all, the coins have to appreciate by >5% to really be worth investing in now at all. Yes that's humble compared to early bitcoin gains but not really in the grand scheme of things. More importantly, if you truly believed what you said in this post you should be snapping up as many cheap freicoins as possible. Making these claims seems misleading.

I am. Anyone with coins to sell PM me an offer.

[sangaman]

When the price of freicoin moves, it will could be by a lot more than the few percent you will lose by holding on to them for a few years. If the price moves up the number of coins in active circulation will also increase as speculators cash out their holdings. Eventually as economic growth levels out even the most bullish speculators convert their holdings into bitcoin, fiat, or real capital, the monetary velocity stabilizes, and the price of freicoin stops increasing.

It'll be a rough-and-tumble couple of years, no doubt. But I don't see any reason that it couldn't stabilize once the real Freicoin economy is built up (and the Foundation funds will play a large part in jumpstarting that).

More blatant advertising here. Making these sorts of promises, that freicoin will increase in value faster than the demurrage fee, is irresponsible and suspicious. Furthermore, can a coin really be non-deflationary if ore expected to gain purchasing power over time?

I also don't see what advantage this provides over bitcoin or why one would choose to accept freicoin instead of bitcoin. One post suggested immediately selling your freicoin for bitcoin, but then isn't freicoin just an unnecessary step in the middle. The bitcoin payment network and method of securing the blockchain is the same as freicoin, right? I might be missing something and is like to see where this goes but seeing the developers publicly declare their coin is going to gain significant value is making me uneasy.

It's like the spam email promising big returns on penny stocks.

[galambo]

More blatant advertising here. Making these sorts of promises, that freicoin will increase in value faster than the demurrage fee, is irresponsible and suspicious. Furthermore, can a coin really be non-deflationary if ore expected to gain purchasing power over time?

Providing offhand commentary on what's happened over the past week isn't blatant advertising. You're getting confused. Of course the coin's been deflationary over the past week. A week ago it didn't even exist. It exists now and we can agree that it has "some" value. As far as I know no orderbook (bid/ask) exchanges exist for Freicoin so we don't really know what its worth on the market. But there has been some gain far beyond the demurrage fee since December 21, when it didn't exist.

I also don't see what advantage this provides over bitcoin or why one would choose to accept freicoin instead of bitcoin. One post suggested immediately selling your freicoin for bitcoin, but then isn't freicoin just an unnecessary step in the middle. The bitcoin payment network and method of securing the blockchain is the same as freicoin, right? I might be missing something and is like to see where this goes but seeing the developers publicly declare their coin is going to gain significant value is making me uneasy.

You don't see the value of Freicoin. Like it says on the site "it's not for everyone."

It's like the spam email promising big returns on penny stocks.

If you see any concrete, material misleading statements made by anyone you feel is associated with this project please point them out and I will issue a clarification. We're excited and in a celebratory mood right now. Especially maaku: the project he's been slaving over for the last year (I know I was there) is taking off, so please excuse us for any personal "irrational exuberance."

[Impaler]

Not yet, were hoping it pops up of its own accord (an existing exchange starts trading it) if not then maaku will likely put in the time to create one.

[sangaman]

Galambo I'm on a phone right now so not in great positions to debate. I quoted what I believed to be assertions that freicoin will gain value over the next few years and suggestions that now is the best time to buy. Nobody knows that. That is what rubbed me the wrong way, it reads like hype and advertising.

It also seems odd that the developer expects the club to be deflationary for a period of years. Isn't the point for this club not to be deflationary?

And rather than dismiss my concerns by saying freicoin I'd not for everyone, why not explain to skeptical newcomers like myself why freicoin is a superior means of exchange?

[galambo]

Galambo I'm on a phone right now so not in great positions to debate. I quoted what I believed to be assertions that freicoin will gain value over the next few years and suggestions that now is the best time to buy. Nobody knows that. That is what rubbed me the wrong way, it reads like hype and advertising.

I'd like to point out there isn't an orderbook exchange for Freicoin. You cannot "buy" Freicoin because there's nowhere to buy it. Saying "this is a good time (probably the best time) to pick up cheap coins" only refers to people mining the Freicoin, because compared to Bitcoin mining the Freicoin is still super cheap. The difficulty of Bitcoin is 3000 times where Freicoin is currently.

And rather than dismiss my concerns by saying freicoin I'd not for everyone, why not explain to skeptical newcomers like myself why freicoin is a superior means of exchange?

If you haven't noticed we aren't actively promoting this on the Bitcoin forums. We didn't even make a thread here because we prefer to use our own forum and IRC. I'd rather communicate with people that understand what we're trying to do. We're not marketers/advertisers, and we were not optimizing our behavior to maximize your perception of value. All of our decisions have a singular focus, which is getting the coins into as a diverse set of hands as possible.

[doublec]

PPS is a little bit harder to setup for Freicoin because each block has a slightly different reward value. A lot of the pool operators are still working on a solution to this. As I quoted before, the easiest way to mine is with p2pool

This is the same with PPCcoin. Each block has a different reward value. One way of solving this is to use "getmemorypool". This returns the reward of the block currently being worked on. The pool then provides PPS based on that.

[doublec]

What's the best approach for services that hold user balances to account for the reduction in value of the users account over time? Exchanges and pools tend to have large balances held for users and will not want to foot the cost of the balance reduction.

Is there an API to get this? Does the "accounts" system that bitcoin have work for freicoin and include the reduction in value in the users account balances? I prefer not using the "accounts" system so I'm hoping it's not the only way.

[maaku]

doublec, I'll make writing up an explanation of best practices for handling demurrage a top priority, but it'll probably have to wait until tomorrow. I might be able to extract out some code from my projects to share.

EDIT: but the short answer is: attach a "RefHeight" field to each balance, and each time a balance is used by the system, check if the balance is out of date and if so apply demurrage for the intervening blocks and update the balance. If you have a double-entry system you can even keep track of the loss due to demurrage in a special system account so the books balance.

[maaku]

More blatant advertising here. Making these sorts of promises, that freicoin will increase in value faster than the demurrage fee, is irresponsible and suspicious...

That was not my intent. I did not mean for them to be interpreted as predictions of the future; I meant only to express my own opinion of one possible outcome. I have edited my posts to reflect this.

EDIT:

I quoted what I believed to be assertions that freicoin will gain value over the next few years and suggestions that now is the best time to buy. Nobody knows that. That is what rubbed me the wrong way, it reads like hype and advertising.

I agree those very well could have been interpreted that way, which is why I edited them (and will go back and review them again as I'm in a rush now). What I wrote and you quoted is my own belief and is not meant as a prediction of the future or investment advice in any way. I was under the impression that people were questioning why a demurrage currency could ever have value, and why if it's not supposed to be hoarded are core developers participating in speculation. I offered up my own viewpoint merely as an example, not as an advertisement.

I thought I had qualified my statements as such, but it seems the irrational exuberance of the last few days I haven't been as careful with my words as I should have.

It also seems odd that the developer expects the club to be deflationary for a period of years. Isn't the point for this club not to be deflationary?

Yes, but freicoins currently have (approximately) zero value. Any future where Freicoin has even the smallest usage would necessarily involve freicoins having nonzero value. Between here and there deflation is mathematically the only possible outcome.

Fiat currencies have dealt with this by using the state prerogative to set exchange rates and print money or absorb losses as necessary. We don't have that power, so unfortunately we simply need to accept that there will be a period of deflationary speculation prior to (possible) price stabilization, 0% interest, and all the rest. We're simply being pragmatic.

[bushstar]

Salty, don't tell me off. If people didn't want all the FRC then I wouldn't be doing this. I did not expect to be speculating this Christmas.

Here we go. I have 12,000FRC for sale. Price is 0.5BTC per 1,000FRC. Send me a message if you are interested.

EDIT: Would some clever fellow make an exchange for FRC

[DarkHyudrA]

Salty, don't tell me off. If people didn't want all the FRC then I wouldn't be doing this. I did not expect to be speculating this Christmas.

Here we go. I have 12,000FRC for sale. Price is 0.5BTC per 1,000FRC. Send me a message if you are interested.

EDIT: Would some clever fellow make an exchange for FRC

Maybe Vircurex will add it soon. Send them a request

[jtimon]

Well, 0.0005 BTC per FRC seems like a firm ask. Here's my bid, trying to set a bottom price.

I'm buying at 0.0001 BTC per FRC (0.1btc per 1000 frc), I have 24 btc for this. That is, I'm buying up to 240,000 frc at this price.

PM if you're interested. I'll update this if I spend it all on other asks.

[wrend]

Well, 0.0005 BTC per FRC seems like a firm ask. Here's my bid, trying to set a bottom price.

I'm buying at 0.0001 BTC per FRC (0.1btc per 1000 frc), I have 24 btc for this. That is, I'm buying up to 240,000 frc at this price.

PM if you're interested. I'll update this if I spend it all on other asks.

jtimon,

you are doing it right, well done, you have made the market by making a bid.

I'm buying at 0.000125 BTC per FRC (0.125btc per 1000 frc).

Pm if anyone is interested.