FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC)

[crazy_rabbit]

So about this demurrage..... What is to stop people from doing the obvious: creating a script that just shuffles FRC coins back and forth between different addresses/wallets to avoid demurrage?

Demurrage is calculated based on block height, so it won't work. The demurrage isn't technically applied until you try to make a transaction.

So what does that mean? The coins will just always be subject to demurrage? When does Demurrage actually happen?

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[jtimon]

Demurrage is calculated based on block height, so it won't work. The demurrage isn't technically applied until you try to make a transaction.

So what does that mean? The coins will just always be subject to demurrage? When does Demurrage actually happen?

Demurrage occurs on a per block basis despite coins being moved. It is applied on the chain only when is moved.
But the user doesn't really care when it is updated on the chain, he can't do anything to avoid paying the demurrage fees while hoarding freicoins.

[galambo]

I made a quick graph of the hashrate so far. 

You missed a point. 



68GH/s!!

[Jorgeminator]

I made a quick graph of the hashrate so far. 

You missed a point. 

I did indeed

Updated it:

[Bowjob]

That's quite impressive @ 60 GHs already. I was successful in getting goods with FRC today so I guess we can call this currency legit?

[galambo]

That's quite impressive @ 60 GHs already. I was successful in getting goods with FRC today so I guess we can call this currency legit?

The biggest advantage of spending FRC is that you have peace of mind. You know that you won't have lost out or treated your trading partner unfairly due to wild swings in value, because the coins are continuously being recirculated. Congrats on being one of the first people to realize this and take a trade to completion.

[Ignore@YourPeril]

The biggest advantage of spending FRC is that you have peace of mind.

What is the chance of a Freicoin pirate-ponzi? Just 0.5% per week sounds great when we are talking FRC...

[psybits]

I'll buy 1000 FRC for 0.3 BTC 

PM me!

[Ignore@YourPeril]

Freicoin is a more political animal that Bitcoin. But it is set up for decentralization in the long run, settling down with a demurrage-tax on the economy that will throttle saving (and lending) to the benefit of miners.

The initital distribution is both centralized and political indeed (80%). If it´s properly managed this will make it easier to sell to the general public.

Just think of the nagging questions non-tech people always ask when they are just about to be convinced of the benefits of the bitconomy: How was bitcoin distributed initially? Who minted what is currently in circulation? I´d rather want to answer that the biggest chunk originally was given to Amnesty international; open source programmers etc, than it was mined by pimply teenagers with custom built rigs in their basement dwellings.

My summary so far: Freicoin has just about the inverse economical functions of Bitcoin, both in distribution and for the long term..

[jtimon]

The initial idea was to distribute it all through miners for p2p-ness, but many people complained about giving it to miners.
We also considered to distribute it equally among as many people as possible, but there's no easy way to uniquely identify people from any country and getting people to sign for their share before launch.
Then the "good causes" idea came out and we thought it could be very useful to distribute it to many people fast (even people or organizations that wouldn't have get involved with the currency otherwise) and it could also help to further legitimize freicoin.
Let's see how this turns out, but I don't think we've made a mistake.

[jjiimm_64]

I'll buy 1000 FRC for 0.3 BTC 

PM me!

this is on par with what a miner would make mining btc... your not offering a premium?

[Impaler]

Neither Jtimon nor any other Freicoin contributor are going to be profiting personally from Foundation funds, everyone is maintaining full separation of their personal accounts (created through mining on our often pathetic personal rigs) and Foundation funds.  You can also use the Block-chain explorer to see that Foundation funds have not been moved yet.

I'm in favor of allocating a portion of Foundation funds towards a faucet in the future, but we will need to make sure it's done properly.  First the Foundation needs a get a documented procedure for how it distributes funds agreed upon.  If you want to have some input on how that's decided you can contribute at http://www.freicoin.org/post819.html#p819 ware we are discussing that along with some charitable proposals.

[crazy_rabbit]

You already earned over 7.5 millions FRC! What have you done by now, except a lot of talking? Nothing. The only FRC faucet
in existence is not done by you. Beside it, is there any other way someone not mining or buying FRC could get some coins? No.

"distribute it to many people fast" 

Holly $hit! 7.5 Million?!?!?!?!

[Nolo]

You already earned over 7.5 millions FRC! What have you done by now, except a lot of talking? Nothing. The only FRC faucet
in existence is not done by you. Beside it, is there any other way someone not mining or buying FRC could get some coins? No.

"distribute it to many people fast" 

Holly $hit! 7.5 Million?!?!?!?!

Makes the amount I've been mining look rather small  in comparison...

[maaku]

Neither jtimon, Impaler, galambo, or any of the other core contributors have access to the Foundation wallet. It's currently in cold storage in safe deposit box only I have access to. The Foundation is currently an existential risk for Freicoin: how well we keep to our promises about those funds will determine the future of FRC.

Because of the gravity of the situation, we're keeping very strictly to the promises that we made. The Foundation outputs will only be spent through grants, and no funds will be disbursed until a process is in place for public solicitation of proposals and comments on proposals, and a disinterested review board setup to evaluate and select proposals for funding according to published criteria and a transparent process.

I would have liked to have helped fill the faucet funds, and given support as needed to the explorer, mining pools, and exchanges currently being worked on. But in the absence of a Foundation decision making process, I would have done so unilaterally. And that's a slippery slope none of us want to go down.

The 320 Foundation addresses are a matter of public record (see GetInitialDistributionBudget() in main.cpp). You can lookup their history at any time on the block explorer. I promise you this: those addresses will not be touched until grants are awarded by a fully functioning Foundation. theymos can mark me as a scammer if I renege on that.

[Jorgeminator]

80 Gigahash/s busted, congrats! 

[xxjs]

As a sidenote to the basic interest rate and its tendency, the Austrian explanation is

The interest rate (yes basic, as opposed to loan insurance, loan cost and profit/loss) is a result of the consumers time preference, or impatience. In and economy where everything is fixed and known, including the value scales of the consumers, the interest would still be positive. The demand for holding money, however, would be zero.

Peoples demand for money is due to the uncertainty of the future, but also if you think you have a comfortable level of consumption it is logical to save more.

Then when you have more than enough money to cover the insecurity, you would invest in capital goods either directly, via a firm, via a fund, or via a savings account.

Luckily for us who live from hand to mouth, the savers supply capital which results in productivity increase for every wage earner.

[galambo]

Political money.

I feel the freicoin website spells that out pretty well. Do you see that as a problem, or just different than bitcoin?

[grondilu]

Stopped reading here:

« In fact, the unfair economic advantages of simply being wealthy are diminished with Freicoin. In the current system of money, including the U.S. Dollar, Euro, and other national currencies, money is and always has been used to store value–money seen from the point of view of the holders, the wealthy. Freicoin emphasizes instead the view to that of the producer, the proletariat, the 99%: money as a means of buying the goods and services necessary to sustain life, and the capital required to create improved living conditions. »

It's clearly a currency designed for communists or communist-friendly people.  Not sure they even try to hide it.   They should call it "redcoin".

Well, communists have the right to exist so I guess it would be a good thing if they had their own money.  But as far as I'm concerned, I don't want any part of this.

[grondilu]

I see that as a big big problem. Many people like bitcoin because it is not designed to be handed to those that some politicians deem too big to fail aka important. Freicoin does just the same thing by handing free money to those organisations or individuals that some politicians inside freicoin deem more important than their respective competition. Happily distorting the market if it was worth anything.

That this can also happen with a huge amount of corruption and scamming only adds to why I absolutely can not support it at all. Not with 80%, not with 8%, not with 8 Freicoin reserved for a political purpose.

Sure, but in a way we should be happy about this thing.  Because Freicoin is the answer to most of the ranting we've been hearing ever since the beginning of bitcoin.  Instead of trying to convince them on how wrong they are, we can just tell them:  "well you can just use freicoin, then".

As a bitcoin user I still have to use fiat currencies everyday, anyway.  Between USD/EUR/Whatever and Freicoin, I'd rather use freicoin.