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Author Topic: Want to start a small farm, but all calculator give different result  (Read 821 times)
Ski-lleR
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January 20, 2016, 03:48:07 AM
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Hi,

I have 30k to invest, so i think to build a mining farm.
I selected this hardware :
- ANTMINER S7 * 25 -> 22401 USD
- APW3-12-1600-B2 * 25 -> 3500 USD

Since kWh is a bit high in my country (0.16$), i found that miner hosting can be a good idea. I found 3 interesting offer :
- http://zoomhash.com            -> 0.08$
- https://cryptominer.ca          -> 0.09$
- http://bitcoinasichosting.com -> 0.11$

Then i decided to use different bitcoin calculator to see the "possible" profitability, using the shippest hosting provider (zoomhash)

On coinwarz.com :
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/678412731.png

On tradeblock.com :
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/691015422.png

On bitcoinwisdom.com :
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/684813423.png

coinwarz don't take difficulty increment into account, so i assume the result is almost false.
On tradeblock and 20% difficulty increment, it's not rentable. With 7%, i can use the bitcoin earned + selling the x25 rig to built a new farm with more rig (and repeat the process regulary, adding more and more rig, x25, x35, x50 etc...).
On bitcoinwisdom it's not rentable even with 7% or 20% difficulty increment.

I know bitcoin mining is very difficult and there is a lot of factor involved (ive readed a lot of topic in this section), but it's appear that even with starting a new build rig with 30k and a low kWh price the profit seem impossible, or you need to be very lucky.

What do you think ? Invest or not ? Take into account that i have money, so if i lose 30k it's not the end of the world.
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VirosaGITS
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January 20, 2016, 04:51:40 AM
 #2

Hi,

I have 30k to invest, so i think to build a mining farm.
I selected this hardware :
- ANTMINER S7 * 25 -> 22401 USD
- APW3-12-1600-B2 * 25 -> 3500 USD

Since kWh is a bit high in my country (0.16$), i found that miner hosting can be a good idea. I found 3 interesting offer :
- http://zoomhash.com            -> 0.08$
- https://cryptominer.ca          -> 0.09$
- http://bitcoinasichosting.com -> 0.11$

Then i decided to use different bitcoin calculator to see the "possible" profitability, using the shippest hosting provider (zoomhash)

On coinwarz.com :


On tradeblock.com :


On bitcoinwisdom.com :


coinwarz don't take difficulty increment into account, so i assume the result is almost false.
On tradeblock and 20% difficulty increment, it's not rentable. With 7%, i can use the bitcoin earned + selling the x25 rig to built a new farm with more rig (and repeat the process regulary, adding more and more rig, x25, x35, x50 etc...).
On bitcoinwisdom it's not rentable even with 7% or 20% difficulty increment.

I know bitcoin mining is very difficult and there is a lot of factor involved (ive readed a lot of topic in this section), but it's appear that even with starting a new build rig with 30k and a low kWh price the profit seem impossible, or you need to be very lucky.

What do you think ? Invest or not ? Take into account that i have money, so if i lose 30k it's not the end of the world.

No, 0.08 is too high. It would be high risk.

And tradeblock is asking you how much diff you think it will go up by per month, thats why its different from bitcoinwisdom which ask you what do you think the increment per round will be.

Bitcoinwisdom at 7% is a fair guess at how bad your profit looks, which is very bad. Get a better price on the electricity, or hardware or something. Maybe look whats the hosting cost at hashnest.

If not, things are looking a bit icky with the bitfury stuff and private farms getting super big.

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raspberryseltzer
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January 20, 2016, 06:40:08 AM
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Right - BitcoinWisdom is the best option in my regard.  Add in your hardware cost there as well - and it becomes pretty clear how soon you break even (if at all).  Don't forget to factor in things like power supplies, cables, etc..  Also - better to estimate 10% less than your expected hashrate.  For a larger farm, you'll probably have to send some boards back to China for repair.  One of my miners currently is operating at 70% due to some less than ideal environmental condition.

In my case, I'm currently mining with very low cost electric (much lower than you have) and a small farm of S7.  It's going to be a long time before I break even Cheesy
raspberryseltzer
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January 20, 2016, 06:54:36 AM
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Also - better to be conservative on your initial date of starting mining.  If you order your miners from China, they might arrive in a week, or maybe 2.  Also for a new mine, it will probably take a couple days to setup, assuming no issues with your power supply.  I doubt you would have any revenue in January, with just 10 days left.
Amph
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January 20, 2016, 07:33:36 AM
 #5

try this one, it come in hand, it's a new calculator https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1334226.0

however with that electricity you can only come ahead by selling your asic at some point, and anyway i would not count on 40% per month for the diff, that is a catastrophic scenario where the value increase very fast, not going to happen

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carlosmnk
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January 20, 2016, 08:51:58 AM
 #6

Cryptoboreas.com is cheaper than that; 0.065$/Kw/hour and if you want you can rent the PSU and pay 0.069$/Kw/hour instead, aprox.

Played with: USB RedFury - BlackArrows Prospero X1/X3 - Butterfly Monarch- Spondoolies SP20E - Avalon 6 - Antminer U3/S3/S3+/C1/S5/S7 Batches 3-7-8 - Sfards SF100 - Innosilicon A2 Terminator - Alcheminer 96/256 - KNC Titan - Etherum Rigs
QuintLeo
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January 20, 2016, 11:05:11 AM
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20% per difficulty adjustment is rather on the high side - 10% would be a better "conservative" estimate currently. We've only seen anything close to a 20% adjustment ONCE in the past year, most have been 10% or a bit less since the S7 was first shipped.

 On the other hand, I've been doing my own calcs at 7.5c/KWH for a while and have NEVER seen an S7 come up with "make RoI" estimate - was semi-close when it was first released, but the high diff increases since have killed it's chances, and the recent price drop wasn't even CLOSE to enough to make up for that.

 Nothing else currently is even CLOSE - the next closest is the Avalon 6, but it's lower hashrate for more money and slightly LESS efficient, so worse across the board.

 Anything older is bloody near ZERO operating profit at this point at my electric cost.


 Unless you can get into VERY VERY cheap electric (3c/KWH or less) forget trying to make any money with any miner currently available.
ezeminer
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January 21, 2016, 07:30:38 AM
 #8

What do you think ? Invest or not ? Take into account that i have money, so if i lose 30k it's not the end of the world.
Invest into Bitcoin. Better long term, if Bitcoin jumps in price you profit. But if you have miners you can't as easily profit, unless miners come into high demand, where people are paying higher than market prices.

You can't ROI fast enough before the Halving. Unless halving shoots BTC to the moon pricewise. Halving also looks to not be accounted for in the calculators, but can be safely assumed to happen in Late June to Late July if the difficulty continues to climb.

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January 21, 2016, 07:55:17 AM
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What do you think ? Invest or not ? Take into account that i have money, so if i lose 30k it's not the end of the world.
Invest into Bitcoin. Better long term, if Bitcoin jumps in price you profit. But if you have miners you can't as easily profit, unless miners come into high demand, where people are paying higher than market prices.

You can't ROI fast enough before the Halving. Unless halving shoots BTC to the moon pricewise. Halving also looks to not be accounted for in the calculators, but can be safely assumed to happen in Late June to Late July if the difficulty continues to climb.


 The exact halving time/date isn't known 'till it happens, but currently looks to be somewhere mid-July.

 Massive difficulty increases will move that forward, small ones will move it back, but not a ton at this point since we're getting fairly close to the time.
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January 21, 2016, 09:47:05 PM
 #10

Since kWh is a bit high in my country (0.16$), i found that miner hosting can be a good idea. I found 3 interesting offer :
- http://zoomhash.com            -> 0.08$
- https://cryptominer.ca          -> 0.09$
- http://bitcoinasichosting.com -> 0.11$

Hi,

FYI, my prices are quoted in CAD. Since, at this time, 1 CAD ~ 0.70 USD, it would be about 0.07 USD / kWH to host with us. Not 0.09.

Thank you,

http://cryptominer.ca - Canadian miner hosting (600 kW+ datacenters)
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