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Author Topic: Blocks are full.  (Read 14683 times)
SebastianJu
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January 25, 2016, 02:39:03 AM
 #101

Better than "best" would be completely separate implementations with separate code bases, preferably in separate programming languages.  Separate teams evolving a common code base continues the risks of monoculture.

I think it's not needed to invent everything new since already thousands of thousands of work hours flew into the code. It would be sufficient to review code to be implemented, change code who is not working properly and so. Then all bitcoiners would have a way to chose the implementation they feel is the best at the moment.

Though this will die quickly since one of the first decisions will be 1mb block or 2mb block, which will mean 2 different blockstreams and the same bitcoins on different addresses in each blockchain.
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January 25, 2016, 04:37:22 PM
 #102

has anyone calculate how much block size we need to have paypal transactions or visa transcaction. Is more than 1gb block size. Is this ever will happen? I dont think so

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January 25, 2016, 04:44:33 PM
 #103

has anyone calculate how much block size we need to have paypal transactions or visa transcaction. Is more than 1gb block size. Is this ever will happen? I dont think so

isn't visa 2k tx per second? we are currently stuck at 3 per sec as average, so you do the math, 600mega minimum

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
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January 25, 2016, 04:45:39 PM
 #104

Right now Bitcoin's price is rallying and block are full. According to blockchain.info backlog of unconfirmed transactions is 11.6 MB right now and as far as I know there is now spam or stress test going on. How worse does it need to get?


i have not been into all this bitcoin stuff for so long , but from all i read so far , i cant realy see why so much people are hating on bigger block sizes. Becuse all i can see and hear right now is that bitcoins would benfit from it a great deal.
I think people hate it is because it could cause the community to divide if most people don't switch to the new version.

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January 25, 2016, 07:04:25 PM
 #105

has anyone calculate how much block size we need to have paypal transactions or visa transcaction. Is more than 1gb block size. Is this ever will happen? I dont think so
The best way to do this is to calculate how many transactions can be put inside a 1 GB block and then compare it to TPS of Paypal or Visa.
If you assume that at 1 MB the tps is on average 3, that means that in a 1 GB block the tps is 1000 higher, so 3000 TPS (because 1 GB = 1000 MB). In theory a 1 GB block has a TPS rate of 7000, but in reality it is ~3000. According to the Visa website they handle on average 150 Million transactions per day which equals to 6 250 000 transactions per hour which again equals to a TPS rate of ~1 736. However, this is only on an average day. Their website says that they can handle a TPS rate of over 24 000 and in order to come close to that we would need (min.) 8 GB blocks. Scaling this way is very inefficient and problematic.


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January 25, 2016, 07:40:23 PM
 #106

we don't need 8 giga ever, there are currently theoretically, optimizations that can guarantee us more tx per sec than the average known

i think none has read this it seems https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
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January 26, 2016, 02:22:06 AM
 #107

we don't need 8 giga ever, there are currently theoretically, optimizations that can guarantee us more tx per sec than the average known

i think none has read this it seems https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Real scaling will happen with regional favored altcoins.

What I mean is West Africa will embrace one alt coin, South America another, etc. and most transactions in those regions will be done with those alt coins, with bitcoin acting in similar fashion as USD currently acts on the world market.

That's what I see happening.

And no, none of the current alt-coins look to me like they have a shot at being adopted by a particular region of the world.

I suspect these alt-coins will have a shorter block time making them easier to use in point of sale transactions and use a proof of stake method of keeping the mining in the region where they are primarily used.

I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong
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January 26, 2016, 08:29:10 AM
 #108

we don't need 8 giga ever, there are currently theoretically, optimizations that can guarantee us more tx per sec than the average known

i think none has read this it seems https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Real scaling will happen with regional favored altcoins.

What I mean is West Africa will embrace one alt coin, South America another, etc. and most transactions in those regions will be done with those alt coins, with bitcoin acting in similar fashion as USD currently acts on the world market.

That's what I see happening.

And no, none of the current alt-coins look to me like they have a shot at being adopted by a particular region of the world.

I suspect these alt-coins will have a shorter block time making them easier to use in point of sale transactions and use a proof of stake method of keeping the mining in the region where they are primarily used.

i can see this scenario more with sidechain than altcoin, altcoin would be a pain in the ass to regulate, sidechain are more tied to bitcoin instead, they should be easy to control

i believe that altcoin will remain niche forever, and maybe more toward criminal activity if they offer soemthing like monero, and their adoption one day will emerge greatly
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January 26, 2016, 08:33:39 AM
 #109

Only at peak times, but the situation is corrected quickly and 99% of the times there is plenty of space in the blocks.

Not an issue. For now

nowadays, it is very usual to have full blocks, it is not only in the rush hours ! I was thinking like you but It is a real issue, because even when you pay the proper fees you may wait two hours or more to get confirmed

Even with all the backlog, I can always get my transaction confirmed really fast. I really have no problem.


 
 
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January 26, 2016, 08:39:45 AM
 #110

we don't need 8 giga ever, there are currently theoretically, optimizations that can guarantee us more tx per sec than the average known

i think none has read this it seems https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Real scaling will happen with regional favored altcoins.

What I mean is West Africa will embrace one alt coin, South America another, etc. and most transactions in those regions will be done with those alt coins, with bitcoin acting in similar fashion as USD currently acts on the world market.

That's what I see happening.

And no, none of the current alt-coins look to me like they have a shot at being adopted by a particular region of the world.

I suspect these alt-coins will have a shorter block time making them easier to use in point of sale transactions and use a proof of stake method of keeping the mining in the region where they are primarily used.

There used to be numerous country coins, like the Icelandic coins, Malta coins. These coins are not popular now. Most died. Digital coin is international.
SebastianJu
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January 27, 2016, 04:28:30 AM
 #111

Only at peak times, but the situation is corrected quickly and 99% of the times there is plenty of space in the blocks.

Not an issue. For now

it is when the bankers want FREE

transactions, can you fkn believe it!!!!!!

they close our bank accounts block our money

transfers, but are soooo cooookeeddd

they think we wont see them blatantly

pushing mike and gavin around like
 
ladyboys calling for free transactions

ohhhh revenge is so sweet   Cheesy

The bankers? You know that corrup Hearn is out of the game, i never understood why someone would want to work with him but somehow some did.

But let's look at the other direction. We have bitcoin as the real currency. Now we have some people that try to build something around bitcoin and they want that everyone uses them to interact with bitcoin. Over time the transaction fees for bitcoin will rise pretty high with 1mb blocks. At one point in time it might be that case that they are so very high that only a huge amount of lightning network transaction put into one bitcoin transaction makes sense anymore. So that no normal person can pay the bitcoin fees anymore.

The solution is easy then. Come use lightning network directly. No need to buy bitcoins, send us your fiat we give you virtual bitcoins on lightning network. You don't even have to touch bitcoins anymore.

What would we have then? A banking system. Only big companies and banks would be able to use bitcoin anymore. In fact it's the same we have now in the fiat world.

Well, this doesn't sound exactly like the great future satoshi envisioned. Though it seems some people have different interests while still claiming they are the original bitcoiners. Might be that there are alot of people who honestly think it will be the solution to not use bitcoin directly anymore.

In fact i doubt it will come this far. LN will have a hard time getting established in my opinion.
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January 27, 2016, 04:35:54 AM
 #112

The backlog is just going to keep rising and there is nothing we can do about it. It is very unfortunate.

That's why we need the lightning network, even as a temporary solution while Core devs patch up a perma fix.

I think it's wishfull thinking to believe that the core devs now, somehow, come up with a perma fix. What they do mostly is pushing lightning network, which in fact is no fix but simply "Not using bitcoin anymore". That is no fix to bitcoin, it's an evading solution.
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January 27, 2016, 04:46:23 AM
 #113

has anyone calculate how much block size we need to have paypal transactions or visa transcaction. Is more than 1gb block size. Is this ever will happen? I dont think so

Bitcoin has time to grow. There were times we used floppy discs with whopping 1,44 mb per disc. Now it's standard to use 1TB discs. That's 1000 * 1000 times more. Now check the time it took to get to that point and you will know when the time is ready that bitcoin can handle the currently used amount of transactions that visa has.
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January 27, 2016, 05:00:14 AM
 #114

we don't need 8 giga ever, there are currently theoretically, optimizations that can guarantee us more tx per sec than the average known

i think none has read this it seems https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Real scaling will happen with regional favored altcoins.

What I mean is West Africa will embrace one alt coin, South America another, etc. and most transactions in those regions will be done with those alt coins, with bitcoin acting in similar fashion as USD currently acts on the world market.

That's what I see happening.

And no, none of the current alt-coins look to me like they have a shot at being adopted by a particular region of the world.

I suspect these alt-coins will have a shorter block time making them easier to use in point of sale transactions and use a proof of stake method of keeping the mining in the region where they are primarily used.

It would mean that not everyone in the world needs to have the transaction details of everyone other in the world. Because a big part of the transactions are in countries you will never care about. Which will decrease the amount of harddisc space you need.

Sidechains sound like a better solution though.

I wonder if it will happen since surely most people will prefer to use the real deal. Global network.
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January 28, 2016, 06:29:47 AM
 #115

Average blocksize has hit a new all time high according to blockchain.info -> https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size?showDataPoints=false&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&timespan=all&scale=0&address=

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January 28, 2016, 09:35:28 AM
 #116

Spikes don't matter, the average data over time matters much more. Spikes can be caused by huge numbers of things (e.g. spam attacks). It should be fine until Segwit gets activated (let's just hope that miners really want an increase as they say that they do). It will give a small bump that will increase over time.

There used to be numerous country coins, like the Icelandic coins, Malta coins. These coins are not popular now. Most died. Digital coin is international.
Private regional coins are useless; this is not what Bitcoin stands for.


Just your everyday spam trying to manipulate the people.


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AliceWonderMiscreations
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January 29, 2016, 10:23:13 PM
 #117

Spikes don't matter, the average data over time matters much more. Spikes can be caused by huge numbers of things (e.g. spam attacks). It should be fine until Segwit gets activated (let's just hope that miners really want an increase as they say that they do). It will give a small bump that will increase over time.

There used to be numerous country coins, like the Icelandic coins, Malta coins. These coins are not popular now. Most died. Digital coin is international.
Private regional coins are useless; this is not what Bitcoin stands for.


Just your everyday spam trying to manipulate the people.

Private are useless, but regional coins are not, just like regional fiat currencies are not useless.

Why should the value of crypto-currency in Venezuela drop just because a bunch of whales in China decided to dump?

I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong
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January 29, 2016, 10:33:12 PM
 #118

Private are useless, but regional coins are not, just like regional fiat currencies are not useless.

Why should the value of crypto-currency in Venezuela drop just because a bunch of whales in China decided to dump?
Are you trying to tell me that people outside of this region won't be able to buy the coin? This is not going to happen; nor do I see how this could be properly implemented. This still enables people somewhere to "dump" whenever they want to.


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January 29, 2016, 10:44:54 PM
 #119

Private are useless, but regional coins are not, just like regional fiat currencies are not useless.

Why should the value of crypto-currency in Venezuela drop just because a bunch of whales in China decided to dump?
Are you trying to tell me that people outside of this region won't be able to buy the coin? This is not going to happen; nor do I see how this could be properly implemented. This still enables people somewhere to "dump" whenever they want to.

Of course they will be able to buy the coins, just like I can buy Canadian fiat.

The way it most likely would work :

Several business owners in a region get together to make it happen. Part of them getting together is so they accept the coin at launch, and make sure exchanges are set up at launch.

Mining would most likely be proof of stake, so that mining for profit by those who do not already hold the currency would be minimized, keeping most of the mining in the region.

It probably would involve a premine with initial sales of the pre-mined coins only to residents of the region. Those residents of course could sell to anyone they want, but they also could be used at any of the businesses that agreed to accept the coin before it was even launched.

Sure some outsiders would buy and hold the coin, but there is no incentive for businesses outside the region to accept it so inside the region is where it will flow and have real value.

Sooner or later it will happen, probably with many failed attempts first. India I suspect will be the first to do it successfully.

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January 29, 2016, 10:52:05 PM
 #120

An interesting concept that could be tried is that blocks have to be signed by a key that matches a DNSSEC key in the country code TLD.

e.g. for India, the block has to be signed by a DNSSEC key signing key that has a DS record in the .in TLD.

That would probably keep most mining within the region.

I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong
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