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Author Topic: Coinbax wallet mining taxing  (Read 2053 times)
dmwardjr
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January 20, 2016, 11:19:17 PM
 #1

Moved to another thread of which I am moderating...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1335274.msg13624243#msg13624243

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January 20, 2016, 11:34:30 PM
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That sucks but I think that's the law. You ever trade stocks? same thing there. after you reach $20k the SEC needs a blowjob and you must declare yourself as a day trader.

I think your only fix is give up citizenship
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January 20, 2016, 11:34:50 PM
 #3


I recommend not using Coinbase in any regard and use another means of conducting your business with bitcoin.  I can see this becoming a BIG mess.  I now have to make sure I'm DEFINITELY organized.  I can see a visit from the tax man very easily this year.  If that happens, I will be on a mission to put an end to anyone doing business with Coinbase.

I doubt this is Coinbase's fault.  They are a financial institution and there are very strict Federal regulations they have to adhere to.  When you make a large deposit to your checking or savings the Bank will report it too.  The transaction limit just smells like a government bureaucrat that probably can't even spell Bitcoin. Smiley

But please keep us apprised of the situation I would like to know what our liabilities are here in the US.  Thanks.

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January 20, 2016, 11:48:10 PM
 #4



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


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January 21, 2016, 12:34:38 AM
 #5

I think that it is a very interesting topic.
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January 21, 2016, 01:07:39 AM
 #6



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...

Thats all pretty disgusting. I am in Canada, and i use it in a similar way, but the way BTC is defined in the law is pretty vague and only a capital gain should have to be declared so its pretty easy to do whatever as long as you declare your real BTC profits as a other source of income.

I really wish it does not become like that in Canada in the future.

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January 21, 2016, 01:08:27 AM
 #7



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...

 

DMWARD...jr
over 10 posts a day, moron, are you lonely or just a idiot?  You must miss acting like a teacher. You are a lonely
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January 21, 2016, 01:48:35 AM
 #8



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...

 

DMWARD...jr
over 10 posts a day, moron, are you lonely or just a idiot?  You must miss acting like a teacher. You are a lonely
 MORON.
 

@ Bitwitt  - I've learned more from DMwardjr then anyone else on this forum.  He's too classy to bother respond to a jerk like you.  Take your crap elsewhere if you're not interested in learning.  Your crap post is already deleted on the other thread, I hope he would do the same on this thread.  


@David - I'm very interested in what you find out as I'll be running into the same issues with Coinbase soon.  Fortunately the accounting portion with BTC to FIAT was helped by ZACHM tool, so we'll just need to figure out an alternative to Coinbase or better solution.

Just "Mining" my own business.
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January 21, 2016, 01:59:28 AM
 #9



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...

Going on 30 posts in 2 days. It's insane Please stop!
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January 21, 2016, 02:24:07 AM
 #10



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...

 

DMWARD...jr
over 10 posts a day, moron, are you lonely or just a idiot?  You must miss acting like a teacher. You are a lonely
 MORON.
 

@ Bitwitt  - I've learned more from DMwardjr then anyone else on this forum.  He's too classy to bother respond to a jerk like you.  Take your crap elsewhere if you're not interested in learning.  Your crap post is already deleted on the other thread, I hope he would do the same on this thread.  


@David - I'm very interested in what you find out as I'll be running into the same issues with Coinbase soon.  Fortunately the accounting portion with BTC to FIAT was helped by ZACHM tool, so we'll just need to figure out an alternative to Coinbase or better solution.

If you are using DIMWARDjr as your mentor ..... you sir are in deep crap.
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January 21, 2016, 02:30:16 AM
 #11

I have received similar inquiries from both Coinbase and Circle last year largely due to large incoming payouts from now defunct ltcgear (I had over 6 GH worth of Scrypt shares). I told them that it was for personal use and investment. I had to answer some questions before I could use their services. Just so it doesn't happen again, I mostly use electrum wallet for coins now.

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January 21, 2016, 02:39:52 AM
 #12

What I'm about to share is important to users of the pool who use CoinBase for their wallet and/or to convert bitcoin into USD.  If you have more than 200 transactions [Easily done with a payout for every block in a matter of several months] -AND- more than $20,000 in transactions.

I received the following email from coinbase today after they asked if I use my coinbase account primarily for business or personal use.  I told them business because my business checking account is linked to Coinbase.  I write off expenses related to bitcoin mining.

Here is a copy and paste of the email:

========================

Coinbase has requested a file from you.

Thank you for using Coinbase for your business activity. Due to your processing volume, your Coinbase transaction activity last year met U.S. tax reporting thresholds. As a result, we kindly ask you to please do the following:

1. Complete the fillable Form W-9 found here: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf. Please fill out the basic information in boxes 1 through 6 and enter the applicable Taxpayer Identification Number in Part 1. Note: you may enter tax exemption codes, if any apply to your business, in Box 4. (If you believe the Form W-9 does not apply to you, please email us at taxfiles@coinbase.com and we will help you find the proper form.)

2. Sign and date the form on the line in Part II.

3. Upload the completed and signed Form W-9 using the Kiteworks website.

Coinbase will retain your completed form for tax reporting purposes and we will send you a Form 1099k in the next few weeks for your own records. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to reach out to taxfiles@coinbase.com. Please return the completed Form W-9 to us by January 25 so we can meet federal tax filing deadlines.

Upload link expires: Jan 25, 2016
This upload requires authentication.
To upload your file, please activate your account by creating a password.

========================

If you read the instructions for US Form 1099-K you will see the following in the instructions:  https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1099k/ar02.html#d0e387

Exception for de minimis payments.   A TPSO is required to report any information concerning third party network transactions of any participating payee only if for the calendar year:
The gross amount of total reportable payment transactions exceeds $20,000, AND

The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.

========================

Box 4. Federal Income Tax Withheld

Enter backup withholding. Persons who have not furnished their taxpayer identification number to you in the manner required are subject to backup withholding on payments required to be aggregately reported in box 1a.

========================

My question is this:  How does Coinbase KNOW what transactions are payments and what transactions are simply transfers from their wallet to a hardware wallet for cold storage?  What if I then [Later] transfer all or part of funds from cold storage back to my Coinbase wallet and use it later on to purchase rigs or other hardware?  Will the transfer from cold storage wallet to coinbase be counted as a "transaction" or thought to be a "payment" to me by Coinbase?  How the hell do they KNOW what is a payment and what is not?

Another example:  If I transferred $70,000 USD to my Coinbase account THEN purchased $70,000 worth of rigs, is this to be reported as $140,000 worth of transactions on form 1099-K?

Another example:  I paid for something with bitcoin via escrow.  Let's say it did not work out and I get refunded that same amount.  Is that amount to be considered a payment?

How the hell do they know what is payments and what is not?

This will be interesting when I get the form 1099-K from them to see the gross dollar amount they put on the form.

I recommend not using Coinbase in any regard and use another means of conducting your business with bitcoin.  I can see this becoming a BIG mess.  I now have to make sure I'm DEFINITELY organized.  I can see a visit from the tax man very easily this year.  If that happens, I will be on a mission to put an end to anyone doing business with Coinbase.

EDIT:  Check out this link:  http://cointelegraph.com/news/113403/5-reasons-to-drop-coinbase-like-a-hot-potato-op-ed

Do you know......You just violated Coinbase terms and conditions ? You posted a private message. Good luck they will shut your account down.    You need to keep your posts and mouth shut.     
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January 21, 2016, 03:08:57 AM
 #13



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...


Had to send your posts to coinbase. You have a big mouth. Mr proud-clown.
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January 21, 2016, 03:13:04 AM
 #14



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.


Totally agree...


Had to send your posts to coinbase. You have a big mouth. Mr proud-clown.
Please close your mouth, it stinks so much my phone rebooted because of it!
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January 21, 2016, 03:33:06 AM
 #15



The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.


Why not Mine to your own Wallet and just transfer to Fiat exchange such as Coinbase in large chunks when needed?
Avoid the 200+ transactions.

As for Tax purposes in USA, everyone should already be documenting their Fiat to BTC transfers and vice versa.  Fiat to BTC would go into a "Hold" account.  Then sales of BTC to Fiat would be removed from "Hold" account.  If more comes out than goes in, it becomes Capital gain and declared as such.  If you have sold all BTC and are under than you'll file a capital loss.  This should be done regardless of documents received as an audit will make resolution of those transactions a necessity.  1099k will put you under the microscope for audit for sure.  #1 cause for small business audit is discrepancy of reported income vs sum total of 1099's reported.  You'll need all your ducks in a row because an audit is highly likely if they are reporting all transfers as "payments" on the 1099k and you are not including those transfers in your over all "earned income" field.



Totally agree...


Had to send your posts to coinbase. You have a big mouth. Mr proud-clown.
Please close your mouth, it stinks so much my phone rebooted because of it!
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January 21, 2016, 03:38:33 AM
 #16

It all strange. I was on the IRS site reading the small amout of tax law there is regarding Bitcoin. This was about 2 weeks ago.

Last time i looked they were not doing 1099 but looks like they are now.

For what i read from the IRS you pay taxes on Bitcoins that are sold and you got to keep track of the amount you sold in USD.

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dmwardjr
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January 21, 2016, 04:13:25 AM
 #17

This thread is about to be locked and redirected to the following thread; of which I will moderate.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1335274.new#new

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January 28, 2016, 02:41:27 AM
 #18

What I'm about to share is important to users of the pool who use CoinBase for their wallet and/or to convert bitcoin into USD.  If you have more than 200 transactions [Easily done with a payout for every block in a matter of several months] -AND- more than $20,000 in transactions.

I received the following email from coinbase today after they asked if I use my coinbase account primarily for business or personal use.  I told them business because my business checking account is linked to Coinbase.  I write off expenses related to bitcoin mining.

Here is a copy and paste of the email:

========================

Coinbase has requested a file from you.

Thank you for using Coinbase for your business activity. Due to your processing volume, your Coinbase transaction activity last year met U.S. tax reporting thresholds. As a result, we kindly ask you to please do the following:

1. Complete the fillable Form W-9 found here: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf. Please fill out the basic information in boxes 1 through 6 and enter the applicable Taxpayer Identification Number in Part 1. Note: you may enter tax exemption codes, if any apply to your business, in Box 4. (If you believe the Form W-9 does not apply to you, please email us at taxfiles@coinbase.com and we will help you find the proper form.)

2. Sign and date the form on the line in Part II.

3. Upload the completed and signed Form W-9 using the Kiteworks website.

Coinbase will retain your completed form for tax reporting purposes and we will send you a Form 1099k in the next few weeks for your own records. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to reach out to taxfiles@coinbase.com. Please return the completed Form W-9 to us by January 25 so we can meet federal tax filing deadlines.

Upload link expires: Jan 25, 2016
This upload requires authentication.
To upload your file, please activate your account by creating a password.

========================

If you read the instructions for US Form 1099-K you will see the following in the instructions:  https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1099k/ar02.html#d0e387

Exception for de minimis payments.   A TPSO is required to report any information concerning third party network transactions of any participating payee only if for the calendar year:
The gross amount of total reportable payment transactions exceeds $20,000, AND

The total number of such transactions exceeds 200.

========================

Box 4. Federal Income Tax Withheld

Enter backup withholding. Persons who have not furnished their taxpayer identification number to you in the manner required are subject to backup withholding on payments required to be aggregately reported in box 1a.

========================

My question is this:  How does Coinbase KNOW what transactions are payments and what transactions are simply transfers from their wallet to a hardware wallet for cold storage?  What if I then [Later] transfer all or part of funds from cold storage back to my Coinbase wallet and use it later on to purchase rigs or other hardware?  Will the transfer from cold storage wallet to coinbase be counted as a "transaction" or thought to be a "payment" to me by Coinbase?  How the hell do they KNOW what is a payment and what is not?

Another example:  If I transferred $70,000 USD to my Coinbase account THEN purchased $70,000 worth of rigs, is this to be reported as $140,000 worth of transactions on form 1099-K?

Another example:  I paid for something with bitcoin via escrow.  Let's say it did not work out and I get refunded that same amount.  Is that amount to be considered a payment?

How the hell do they know what is payments and what is not?

This will be interesting when I get the form 1099-K from them to see the gross dollar amount they put on the form.

I recommend not using Coinbase in any regard and use another means of conducting your business with bitcoin.  I can see this becoming a BIG mess.  I now have to make sure I'm DEFINITELY organized.  I can see a visit from the tax man very easily this year.  If that happens, I will be on a mission to put an end to anyone doing business with Coinbase.

EDIT:  Check out this link:  http://cointelegraph.com/news/113403/5-reasons-to-drop-coinbase-like-a-hot-potato-op-ed

Do you know......You just violated Coinbase terms and conditions ? You posted a private message. Good luck they will shut your account down.    You need to keep your posts and mouth shut.     

Told you this guy was a Blow hard! He just lost most of his Bitcoins playing poker. He is one of the WORST poker players I have seen. Plus he left his wife and young son home as he gambles away his wife 401k.
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