Anybody knows who are these unknown guys keeping on mining?

[johnwhitestar]

According to this: http://blockchain.info/pools the share of the unknown miners is growing.
As if there was no possibility to make good money by mining, but for someone there is some unknown reason to do so.
What is your opinion on regard?

[1714038421]

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[1714038421]

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[1714038421]

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[DeathAndTaxes]

Why is there no possibility to make money mining.  If one already has bought a rig (or farm) and relatively low electrical costs (say <= $0.08 kWh) why would they stop?  The resale value of rigs is essentially zero especially ones built out of 5000s series GPU which have been mining non-stop for 12-24 months.

Why not keep mining?   Most miners in that situation aren't going to turn off until difficulty hits 10M+ due to the first of the ASICs hitting the network.

[edd]

Even if it isn't profitable at the moment, I can think of at least four reasons.

1) These miners are in the enviable position of having access to electricity at a rate which does make it profitable.

2) They believe their bitcoins will eventually be worth more than enough to compensate for what is spent mining them now.

3) These individuals believe in bitcoin for idealogical reasons and are willing to spend some money to support the network.

4) Botnets.

Or some combination of the above.

[Stephen Gornick]

2) They believe their bitcoins will eventually be worth more than enough to compensate for what is spent mining them now.

The electricity consumed today doesn't have to be paid until next month.   With Bitcoin's volatile past, it wouldn't be surprising for the exchange rate to spike ... like maybe 30%, thus causing even someone with average electricity (e.g., $0.12 per kWh) to at least break-even.

Yes, this is gambling speculation, but this strategy has for the most part paid off in the past.  (Those mining in October through December 2011 were doing so at a loss at the time but came out quite if they still had their coins in January.)

Also, there were a lot of FPGAs shipped -- and every one of them mining today is bringing in revenue way above the cost of electricity to run them.

[Graet]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123726.0 is a sticky on this board explaining the (in)accuracy of blockchain.info

[imanikin]

My guess is that they are:

1) various clandestine government entities loading up at taxpayer expense, "just in case".
2) financial sector entities that can somehow write it off their taxes as R&D and electricity expenses.
3) botnets, of course.
4) academia that has unlimited access to really big hardware, and electricity cost is also passed on to the taxpayers and paying students.
5) Google and such corporations, for whom mining costs would be a drop in the sea.
 
Imagine all the possible permutations of  incentives and motivations just these groups have to keep mining.

[edd]

My guess is that they are:

1) various clandestine government entities loading up at taxpayer expense, "just in case".
2) financial sector entities that can somehow write it off their taxes as R&D and electricity expenses.
3) botnets, of course.
4) academia that has unlimited access to really big hardware, and electricity cost is also passed on to the taxpayers and paying students.
5) Google and such corporations, for whom mining costs would be a drop in the sea.
 
Imagine all the possible permutations of  incentives and motivations just these groups have to keep mining.

For 1, 2, 4, and 5, I think it would be easier to just cook the books and buy some, since they'd be doing some creative accounting anyway.

[MoonShadow]

According to this: http://blockchain.info/pools the share of the unknown miners is growing.
As if there was no possibility to make good money by mining, but for someone there is some unknown reason to do so.
What is your opinion on regard?

The unknown section is largely the solo miners, which is why they are unknown.  Regardless, small scale mining does not have to be profitable.  If you live in a cold climate, perhaps in a small flat wherein your method of heating is not under your own control, running a couple hundred watts of mining simply exchanges your heat bill via baseboard electric heaters for heat produced by the mining rig; in which case the cost of electricity is a net zero burden, and any coins that might be aquired are simply a bonus.  This would not be true for a major mining operation, since the heat would far exceed the demand for same; but this is as good a reason to mine in your own home as any other, and could undercut the professional miners even if they use ASICs.  This is the only kind of mining that I've personally done, since I don't mine in the summer, when I would have to pay for additional air conditioning in order to remove that waste heat.  In the winter, the additional heat isn't wasted, it simply offsets a portion of the heat demand upon my central heating unit (although, for me, gas heat is a bit cheaper overall).

[crazyates]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123726.0 is a sticky on this board explaining the (in)accuracy of blockchain.info

Everything you need to close this thread, right here: ^^^

Srsly I thought we were done with these threads.

[johnwhitestar]

Now it's bit clearer to me, thanks to everybody

[Beans]

I have 15gh gpu farm running, still profits pretty well.

[Stephen Gornick]

I have 15gh gpu farm running, still profits pretty well.

Then your cost of electricity is well below average (e.g, you pay like $0.08 per kWh or less), I presume?

[GoldSeal]

Mine in Thailand. Less than $0.04 USD per KWH is achievable. God bless third world countries.

[AngelusWebDesign]

Mine in Thailand. Less than $0.04 USD per KWH is achievable. God bless third world countries.

Can someone explain to me how being a third-world country results in CHEAPER electricity? Is it because everything is cheaper in your local currency, and by converting a stronger currency like the Dollar into local currency you get a favorable exchange?

Because otherwise, if what you say is true, I want to live in a third-world country too!

[deepceleron]

Anybody knows who are these unknown guys keeping on mining?

http://bit.ly/12KdGQW

[Beans]

I have 15gh gpu farm running, still profits pretty well.

Then your cost of electricity is well below average (e.g, you pay like $0.08 per kWh or less), I presume?

$0.026 per kWh, it actually seems expensive compared to what it was a couple years ago

[Stephen Gornick]

Can someone explain to me how being a third-world country results in CHEAPER electricity?

Government subsidies in an attempt to alleviate poverty and to increase access to energy.

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Global_electricity_price_comparison

It isn't just developing nations that subsidize electricity.  Here in California, for instance, there are consumption tiers.  So the person that has a large family and consumes four times as much electricity as someone a few blocks over who lives alone can pay marginal rates nearly three times higher (e.g., $0.12 per kWh for the first tier, then $0.20 for the next, then as much as $0.30 per kWh).  The person that consumes little electricity never exceeded the first tier of consumption and thus never pays more than $0.12 per kWh.

But in the developing nations, subsidies are often used to offset the cost of electrical generation and distribution.   Many of these same nations also subsidize fuel costs.

What these subsidies tend to do though is cause wasteful consumption.  If you electricity is under $0.02 per kWh, you might do something like use inefficient lighting always leave the lights on (when the power isn't in a blackout).

But if you can mine with these subsidies (and your neighbors don't wonder why you leave the windows open even in the winter), more power to you (pun intended).

[jl2012]

This question has been asked over and over and over

blockchain.info should remove that page. It's so misleading and gives NO useful information

[Lethn]

That's exactly why I like it, let people think they can spy on me, I don't care

[Gatorhex]

Can someone explain to me how being a third-world country results in CHEAPER electricity?

CO2 is the air you breathe out. Your global warming tax (breathing tax) is paid though your energy bills so you cannot avoid it.

If you are wondering why there are no jobs it's because energy bills and minimum wage are too high in the west for companies to be competitive.

A central planned economy, all the hallmarks of communism.