Technology vs. Marketing. Which is more important?

[tokeweed]

Good technology have there own marketing by there own customers. People who spread the word is the most successful campaign.

So viral adoption would be an indicator of a good investment, same as for DOGECOIN?

Imo, not really.  But it could be.  What if merchants slowly start accepting Doge for ther products/services.  Lot's of people (consumers) hold it, probably enough.  And volume and liquidity is not that bad if you decide to cash out to BTC.

It's puzzling that the 'lower tech' coins, LTC and Doge still have good trading volume.

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[TPTB_need_war]

It is plausible to contemplate that sometimes lower tech is enough, because sometimes higher tech features have no market or actual adoption utility.

I definitely considered that in my analysis of what tech was worth working on. To invest so much effort in some very complex tech and then come to find out after all there really isn't a market for it. How frustrating to lose all that effort. So yeah, I haven't felt entirely wrong for going slower and taking time to analyze the markets before jumping into implementing. Any way, that is my perspective from a potential (but current vapor) altcoin dev.

Then again if you mean lower tech as in comparing Dash's off chain mixing anonymity (relying on masternodes to keep the secrets) to on chain mixing anonymity (and I would argue Zerocoin being the only tech that in theory makes the entire block chain zero knowledge), then I would argue that the lower tech in this case is inferior to the point of being useless for anything other than convincing speculators to enjoin a P&D.

Yet I may agree if you mean lower tech in the sense of straightforward Bitcoin clone with some marketing innovation, as compared to some complex Zerocoin project, given the privacy markets are unproven and undeveloped, so who knows when and if such complex tech will attain adoption (outside of the speculators who are investing in it). Anonymity tech causes tradeoffs (block chain bloat, etc) so can in some ways argued to be retrogressive (especially if there is no proven market for anonymity with those maybe severe tradeoffs). The devil is in the details. Some coin might someday do anonymity well enough and have very astute marketing strategy. I am not saying it can't happen. I am saying it is very complex to analyze.

[Spoetnik]

Seeing the title, Doge vs NXT came to mind.

THAT ?

Makes me think noobs haven't been here long enough and think their reinventing the wheel.

Notice who is responding ?

The many thousands of old school users who already replied to this topic posted before ?
or
The usual Dash vs. Monero Shill'tards who are the only guys left in the altcoin scene *bickering* ?

i said they would kill crypto, play dumb then move to the long con..
Then bicker and fight over the scraps for attention fro their bag holder club.

What is the point talking about this with idiots want to appear smart for the noobs that come here ?
All anyone ever did here was spam & troll this forum then call it marketing.
..sorry Fake Social Media circle-jerk campaigns do not count.

THE REAL TOPIC IS AND SHOULD BE..
Does traditional marketing tactics taught in school today apply to crypto ?
Because apparently it does to some Fail rejects here who said YES it does long ago.
I have seen a few guys in crypto brag about being trained in "marketing"
And then watching how they act made me laugh my balls off.

What has any shit coin "team" every accomplished in "marketing" ?
NOTHING.
Sorry Nascar paint jobs & Olympic bob sled team donations for a combined 55k is utterly retarded.
Whoever thought of that Marketing idea should be dragged into the street, flogged & pissed on + laughed at.

Is Tech more important ?

Are we playing rhetorical questions with a new dummy account OP ?

I just can't guys.. you all are idiots sorry but that is what i see here.
I am not discussing things with Altcoin scene morons.. STILL HERE pushing shit coins.
Short-con to long-con pushers..

[TPTB_need_war]

Sorry Nascar paint jobs & Olympic bob sled team donations for a combine d55k is utterly retarded.
Whoever thought of that Marketing idea should be dragged into the street, flogged & pissed on + laughed at.

Hahaha. Spoetic.

Hey but if they somehow had so many users interested in tipping and using the coin, then maybe it could have potentially (or still is in the process of?) scale to wider scale adoption. I am skeptical though.

I tend to agree with you that the marketing strategy is almost certainly too niche to scale out to a diverse ecosystem. But it is still more than most shitcoins accomplished in terms of adoption (or at least the hype is that it did, but maybe there never were any significant number of real users?).

[tokeweed]

Seeing the title, Doge vs NXT came to mind.

THAT ?

Makes me think noobs haven't been here long enough and think their reinventing the wheel.

Notice who is responding ?

The many thousands of old school users who already replied to this topic posted before ?
or
The usual Dash vs. Monero Shill'tards who are the only guys left in the altcoin scene *bickering* ?

i said they would kill crypto, play dumb then move to the long con..
Then bicker and fight over the scraps for attention fro their bag holder club.

What is the point talking about this with idiots want to appear smart for the noobs that come here ?
All anyone ever did here was spam & troll this forum then call it marketing.
..sorry Fake Social Media circle-jerk campaigns do not count.

THE REAL TOPIC IS AND SHOULD BE..
Does traditional marketing tactics taught in school today apply to crypto ?
Because apparently it does to some Fail rejects here who said YES it does long ago.
I have seen a few guys in crypto brag about being trained in "marketing"
And then watching how they act made me laugh my balls off.

What has any shit coin "team" every accomplished in "marketing" ?
NOTHING.
Sorry Nascar paint jobs & Olympic bob sled team donations for a combined 55k is utterly retarded.
Whoever thought of that Marketing idea should be dragged into the street, flogged & pissed on + laughed at.

Is Tech more important ?

Are we playing rhetorical questions with a new dummy account OP ?

I just can't guys.. you all are idiots sorry but that is what i see here.
I am not discussing things with Altcoin scene morons.. STILL HERE pushing shit coins.
Short-con to long-con pushers..

True to a point.  So how should a coin be marketed?  I have always been wondering about this.

[TPTB_need_war]

True to a point.  So how should a coin be marketed?  I have always been wondering about this.

I dropped a hint recently but I doubt anyone can guess what I have in mind:

But ... what if users became investors and investors became users in a virtuous spiralling cycle that lead to wide spread adoption by both.  

[gjhiggins]

marketing competence has been lax at best.

Read “non-existent, with one notable exception” as I've yet to encounter anyone who appears to share an appreciation of the details of Jackson Palmer's input to the design of Dogecoin.

I suspect this lack of appreciation is leading people to ascribe to sheer coincidence the fact that out of over 2500 altcoins launched, Dogecoin is the only coin with an inarguably vibrant community and is also the only coin where a senior marketing professional was involved in the creation.

It isn't coincidence.

Cheers

Graham

[TPTB_need_war]

Read “non-existent, with one notable exception” as I've yet to encounter anyone who appears to share an appreciation of the details of Jackson Palmer's input to the design of Dogecoin.

Where can I read those details?

I just read that Jackson Palmer was formerly with Adobe as was Steve Guttman (marketed Photoshop to #1) our VP of Marketing when I was working for Fractal Design Corp (what is now Corel Painter, the one that shipped in a real paint can). I interacted with Steve Guttman even though I was a programmer. After leaving that, I marketed my own CoolPage (downloaded software for web page editing) to 1 million downloads (back when the internet was 1/10 the population) and 335,000 confirmed websites created with my product (imagine soccer clubs, churches, etc). Note I did this from a Nipa Hut in the Philippines, living in squalor until end of 1999 when the profit was pouring in.

So maybe soon you will be able to say two altcoins were marketed. And Fuserleer also claims he will bring marketing expertise to his altcoin.

Any way, I am eager to learn from others. If you can kindly send me a link, I would be grateful. In particular he seems to better understand social memes than I do. I am more focused on user needs (being very pragmatic in my thinking). So maybe I can readjust my thinking and learn from him.

[Spoetnik]

What do these have in Common ?
MintPal, Cryptsy, OpenEx, Coins-EX, BTER, MT Gox, ComKort, Poloniex, Crypto Trade, BTCe ?

Ya uhhh better get working on that marketing..
or
Tech (AKA: Anon coin methods)

[TPTB_need_war]

What do these have in Common ?
MintPal, Cryptsy, OpenEx, Coins-EX, BTER, MT Gox, ComKort, Poloniex ?

Ya uhhh better get working on that marketing..

They mined the speculators. Their marketing strategy was to extract money from speculators. They did not have a marketing strategy for increasing adoption above and far beyond that of Bitcoin (if that is possible), because it is much easier to mine to the speculators. Achieving a million users adoption is difficult and very risky to attempt. The most likely outcome of such an ambitious attempt is FAIL.

But note you are conflating exchanges with altcoins, which isn't entirely valid since this thread is I presume about altcoins. Nevertheless my reply applies to altcoins. Centralized exchanges also mine the speculators, and the propensity to cheat and/or lose coins is inherent. Some centralized exchanges claim to have some form of transparent auditing, but I doubt that resolves the inherent ability to cheat and/or lose coins (I need to study these more).

Note I am working a bit also on decentralized exchange, which could hopefully eliminate the need to use centralized exchanges.

[Spoetnik]

What do these have in Common ?
MintPal, Cryptsy, OpenEx, Coins-EX, BTER, MT Gox, ComKort, Poloniex, Crypto Trade, BTCe ?

Ya uhhh better get working on that marketing..
or
Tech (AKA: Anon coin methods)

In other words 1 BILLION dollars STOLEN while you all argue over $1.50 worth of Dash or Monero 

[tokeweed]

What do these have in Common ?
MintPal, Cryptsy, OpenEx, Coins-EX, BTER, MT Gox, ComKort, Poloniex, Crypto Trade, BTCe ?

Ya uhhh better get working on that marketing..
or
Tech (AKA: Anon coin methods)

In other words 1 BILLION dollars STOLEN while you all argue over $1.50 worth of Dash or Monero 

A billion?  Hey that's not bad marketing.

[TPTB_need_war]

Read “non-existent, with one notable exception” as I've yet to encounter anyone who appears to share an appreciation of the details of Jackson Palmer's input to the design of Dogecoin.

Where can I read those details?

[...]

Appears that Dogecoin's marketing strategy has no long-term legs. It was just a fad preying on the inexperience and enthusiasm of those who didn't understand the lack of value in micro-tipping, and the idealism was temporarily funneled into some stunt events (Jamaican bobsled team to the Olympics and Nascar) to the profit of Alex Green who was raising funds and using them to do publicity stunts. Ended with delusion and realization that it was just a fad.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jackson-palmer-year-dogecoin-jar-nutella-all-i-have-show-1478649
http://www.coindesk.com/dogecoin-founder-bitcoin-toxic/
http://www.dailydot.com/business/moolah-dogecoin-alex-green/

Additionally it is important to understand that microtransactions will never be viable for any activity except where there is no other way to monetize the activity:

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/12/17/changetip-must-die/
http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/02/why-small-payments-wont-save-publishers/

I remember reading some of those articles about problems with microtransactions in the distant past and it is good that I re-familiarized myself with their main point as summarized above.

[gjhiggins]

Appears that Dogecoin's marketing strategy has no long-term legs ...

I can understand how it might appear so to observers outside the domain.

You're opting for the “coincidence” explanation, then?

Cheers

Graham

[TPTB_need_war]

Appears that Dogecoin's marketing strategy has no long-term legs ...

I can understand how it might appear so to observers outside the domain.

You're opting for the “coincidence” explanation, then?

Cheers

Graham

No I wrote that they got the initial boost for being the first to trying micro-tipping, but that micro-tipping is fundamentally flawed as a paradigm, thus as the initial hype fades and everyone who has tried micro-tipping now realizes it is just a one-time delusion that can't be repeated.

[CrypticTrader]

Well look at all the marketing for Neucoin, did it help yes, at the start but I am pretty sure it has devalued gradually since release. So marketing is good, but tech is more important in the long run.

[gjhiggins]

No I wrote that they got the initial boost for being the first to trying micro-tipping, but that micro-tipping is fundamentally flawed as a paradigm, thus as the initial hype fades and everyone who has tried micro-tipping now realizes it is just a one-time delusion that can't be repeated.

Thank you for sharing your assessment. To be brutally frank, it dodges the main question and it's too uninformed an explanation to be useful (I don't consider pundits’ opinions to be authoritative) but thank you for making the effort. It has to be obvious that an “initial boost” cannot be currently sustaining the strong performance two years down the road so we're right back where we started.

But that's just my peccadillo, staying focused on the awkward questions and trying to understand what the answers might mean.

Cheers

Graham

[Fuserleer]

Well look at all the marketing for Neucoin, did it help yes, at the start but I am pretty sure it has devalued gradually since release. So marketing is good, but tech is more important in the long run.

The marketing for Neucoin was rubbish.  They took a strategy of "plaster every crypto site with a banner or popup ad" and there has been nothing since.  That's not a marketing strategy IMO, they might as well of took the mentality of "build it and they will come" and they did nothing at all to promote to the remaining 99.9% of the worlds population outside of our little crypto sphere.   Nearly ALL marketing efforts for crypto adopt the same approach.

A REAL marketing strategy is long term, over a number of years, and identifies the initial and changing needs of the market over that time.  It knows what the market needs even if the market doesn't know what it needs to start with.  It considers the sentiment of the market at all times and modifies campaigns and strategies to suit this sentiment.  It adopts differing strategies for the different demographics you are targeting.  It details how the marketing will evolve as you garner adoption and looks for ways to incentive those that might not be interested, to try out the product and up sell from there to keep them engaged.  It considers all advertising mediums, not just the internet, and how best to use them together to push adoption.

I could go on and on...

An experienced professional marketing team with a moderate budget could take almost ANY crypto and bring it to mass market, regardless of the tech.

Why has that not happened?  I think for 2 reasons.

1.  No one develops their product using their own money first.  They hold an ICO for an idea and start development.  By the time its ready, theres nothing left for marketing.
2.  No one considers the long game, and instead focuses on short term money making schemes like pump/dumps and partnering with banks/corps.

I'm neither of the above, I've developed using my own funds with assistance from a handful of people, so any fund raisers we hold will be spent mainly on marketing and roll-out.  Secondly I'm here for at least 5 years, as that is the absolute minimum time it will take me to recover my investment as I wont be insta-generating millions of EMU for myself or any other similar shady practices. (which will also be detailed in this manifesto).

[CoinHoarder]

Appears that Dogecoin's marketing strategy has no long-term legs ...

I can understand how it might appear so to observers outside the domain.

You're opting for the “coincidence” explanation, then?

Cheers

Graham

No I wrote that they got the initial boost for being the first to trying micro-tipping, but that micro-tipping is fundamentally flawed as a paradigm, thus as the initial hype fades and everyone who has tried micro-tipping now realizes it is just a one-time delusion that can't be repeated.

Lol of course TPTB thinks that the greatest marketing strategy (in more recent times... most successful was Litecoin) in the history of altcoins was flawed, and of course he thinks he can do better... so typical.  

Everyone is forgetting a very simple marketing scheme that made arguably the most successful alternative cryptocurrency what it is today. "Litecoin is the silver to Bitcoin's gold"

[TPTB_need_war]

Lol of course TPTB thinks that the greatest marketing strategy (in more recent times... most successful was Litecoin) in the history of altcoins was flawed

Lying to myself will lead me to failure. Therefor I am honest about the research documents I quoted which explain why micro-tipping will ALWAYS fail.

, and of course he thinks he can do better... so typical.  

You missed the part where that also meant my planned distribution scheme is flawed. And so now I am forced to think of a way around the dilemma:

Note however that microtransactions may not be a viable model, so that throws a monkey wrench into my design plans (because need for users to be mining often in order for them to drive difficulty very high), but I have another idea to investigate now as a possible work around.

I am working on it. There are fundamental limitations (and I can't put x86 assembly code in the browser without a browser plugin that n00b users won't install thus I can't get adequate PoW hash performance for a n00b target strategy), and very difficult to think of how to overcome them.

When will you learn to stop that B-lister crap that makes you look so pathetic? I advised you to lift your game up the A-lister level.