Lifetime pool luck for antpool vs kano.is or why aren't you mining with kano.is

[-ck]

1. Luck is not really luck, but something else. To me it is starting to look this way, especially since some pools have luck that is so low that it shouldn't be happening at all.

There is no question on this. It is fact. If you have inefficiencies and losses, the only way they show up is in the apparent overall "luck" value. It's not like a pool is going to report "We have 100% luck, +0.5% transaction fees, +0.01% merged mined shitcoins, -2% performance loss to run shitcoin daemons, -1% slow block changes, -1% slow block propagation". You only get one overall figure.

[philipma1957]

two possibilities:

1. Luck is not really luck, but something else. To me it is starting to look this way, especially since some pools have luck that is so low that it shouldn't be happening at all.

2. It is still just tossing of the coin and all major pools have similar professionalism. 104% number is skewed by 200% in the beginning and in October-November there was a stretch of pretty dismal luck. So, luck was ~70% on a Oct3-Nov28 stretch-was it a less awesome connection, software, etc., then?
Maybe not, and it was just randomness at play. If this is true, this pool's luck will fluctuate around 100% long term.

make your pick, but I kind of know what you would say already.

okay  lets say  that the 104.33% drops to 100%  and antpool stays at 100%

1  ant pool block  after fees =   25  x 97.5% = 24.375 coins no tx fees  net is 24.375 coins

kano after fees = 25 + tx fee of about .4 =  25.4 coins x 99.1% = 25.1714 coins

everyone talk about luck, well i know something about that-been working in casino industry nearly 2 decades.
ive done tons of analisys of probability, counting of possibility of losing/wining,house edge etc.
Luck does exist but.....
If you are newbie in casino , you are counting purely on luck and that is it.
But if you know something about the game-sections, neighbour bets etc ,you can increase your luck and minimize your loss.
 Same in btc world-if your pool is set up properly(or better, like kano`s) you have bit more chance to find block than the others.
Kano`s pool better luck comes not only from pure luck, but from better settings, constant working with problems etc, its called human factor, and Kano and CK are those factors increasing our luck by implementing their knowledge.

Yes,It is so simple.

One of my points is exactly what you wrote here.
The second of my points is this below

1. Luck is not really luck, but something else. To me it is starting to look this way, especially since some pools have luck that is so low that it shouldn't be happening at all.

There is no question on this. It is fact. If you have inefficiencies and losses, the only way they show up is in the apparent overall "luck" value. It's not like a pool is going to report "We have 100% luck, +0.5% transaction fees, +0.01% merged mined shitcoins, -2% performance loss to run shitcoin daemons, -1% slow block changes, -1% slow block propagation". You only get one overall figure.

 
Lastly  promos like the avalon6 giveaway  yeah it is only six units but they have a 1000 usd or so value  which actually can be added into each block made during the month.

ie in feb say 50 blocks get made that is 1000/50 = 20 bucks or 0.05 btc  

 so a kano block after fees is around .05btc higher for the next 5 months if you are a player under 250th

some more stats.

kano.is  block payouts after his fees is paid and counting the tx fees for all of Jan are below


462   394793      25.49310258   
461   394735      25.21058857   
460   394665      25.70968754   
459   394617      25.13346040
458   394569      25.25627849   
457   394558      25.48945861   
456   394527      25.35485327   
455   394499      25.36193648   
454   394405      25.30577641   
453   394379      25.36481907      253.6794  coins paid for these 10 blocks means   25.36794 coins per block  
452   394107       25.17610939   
451   394067      25.72380807   
450   394059      25.32519131      
449   394030      25.14487205      
448   393929      25.01555611      
447   393915      25.16678650      
446   393753      25.11904214      
445   393724      25.30306216      
444   393673      25.08360966
443   393610      25.20432695   
442   393484      25.22906283   
441   393263      25.41357040   
440   393256      25.44514487   
439   393201      25.31567386   
438   393122      25.29712773   
437   393047      25.49259993   
436   393021      25.10928176   
435   392946      25.22985547   
434   392905      25.12157822
433   392849      25.13086472   
432   392824      25.00607946   
431   392806      25.15672498   
430   392747      25.07203441   
429   392741      25.25829531   
428   392662      25.13157388   
427   392620      25.19828201   
426   392438      25.13828282   
425   392415      25.26613845   
424   392406      25.37805245   
423   392386      25.21898408   
422   392358      25.00821852   
421   392345      25.16420180   
420   392296        25.38712135   
419   392186      25.21015205   
418   392129      25.12784459   
417   391920      25.22205742   
416   391919      25.24137507   
415   391877      25.21981878   
414   391757      25.47026343   
413   391710      25.19485590   
412   391583      25.22346187   
411   391442      25.11099832   
410   391403      25.22296025   2016-01-02 15:37:03+00   

[Matias]

I myself mine in kano.is, but I think there's problem with calculations. Antpool PPLNS fee is 0%, not 2.5%. Or did you take that 2.5% from the fact, that Antpool doesn't pay tx fees to miners?

[philipma1957]

I myself mine in kano.is, but I think there's problem with calculations. Antpool PPLNS fee is 0%, not 2.5%. Or did you take that 2.5% from the fact, that Antpool doesn't pay tx fees to miners?

i got busy with the snowstorm and i did not follow up the chart that shows kano block payouts vs antpool  pplns

you can see the last 10 are over 25.3  vs 25 for antpool. pplns

so far the 97.5  was for pps


i need to clarify this.

f2pool pps is always 100%



antpool pps is always 100%


antpool pplns  happens to be 100%

kano.is pplns happens to be 104.33%


right now it is not  clear enoguh.

kano.is pplns

[sloopy]

A few have mentioned the "human factor", but consider a bit different analogy.

What if Kano and CK were electrical and mechanical engineers along with being software coder extremes?
An angel investor drops 100 million for them to start an asic manufacturing company that is completely controlled by them. They wouldn't necessarily make all business related decisions, but they put the people in place they know who would make the decisions the way they would, they are in charge.

How long would it take before everyone bought their miners? Does anyone doubt their human touch would blow up the hardware scene?
Obviously we could debate all day about their actual hardware design skills but we are giving those a pass in this analogy because we haven't seen those skills, it is an assumption, and we are concentrating on the human touch.
The fact that these guys listen to what users want but make the tough choices based on many variables. The fact that they have integrity, they stand up for what they believe, and even if I don't agree with all of their choices they take the time to explain the why. There is a level of transparency at their pools that is fantastic. They take the time to go through things with each person. The patience level is unreal.

Further, even though Kano.is has exploded in hashrate there is still an ongoing presence which speaks volumes from both of these guys. It hasn't wavered, it is consistent. I have seen them take time to explain 5nd to so many people who are still trying to understand even after reading the help page. They don't ignore people. How is it a pool can not have a daily presence in one of their most visited locations? I mean the bitcointalk user base, the amount of people who discuss and visit these pool threads for antpool and f2pool are huge and nothing providing meaningful communication from one, and nothing at all from the other, but Kano, and cksolo well hell, could anyone ask for more? I bet if there ever has been a user question which went unanswered in the kano.is or cksolo thread it was because it was completely missed as a mistake, but there probably isn't an unanswered question.
That is respect, and knowledge of how you treat each other as people.

I believe without even a hint of doubt it is their human touch, their style, their conviction and work ethic which makes their pools the best. We have had a few rough patches and some amazing good runs but I don't care what "luck" happens to roll our way the people that "get it" aren't going away. I've even seen Kano explain why it may be better for certain styles of miners to mine elsewhere, or move some of their hashrate elsewhere. There is an obvious personality trait and intentional honesty in business which transcends any greed anyone could claim of them. Versus, well yeah, antpool and f2pool. They are the opposite. Bitmain has always put even the smallest amount of profit well ahead of customer service. Bitmain has literally ignored, lied, and in my opinion taken advantage of the mining community with very little communication. Public announcements are made about new mining retrofits, such as the S2 upgrades which never happened and there was never even an announcement regarding why they didn't happen.

As I veer off my analogy a bit but imagine F2pool as another mining hardware company. Is there any doubt they would do whatever it took to cheat whatever process possible to not even get a lead, just make more money for themselves. The greed is astounding. All the while they take advantage of us, the users and miners. They would have some equivalent to the SPV mining which is spitting in the face of bitcoin and this is done purely for greed. The great firewall is being worked around by these guys when they choose to do so. It is an excuse at this point. Actually, the GFW excuse stopped being used by F2pool. They have for a while and currently claim it is their innovative way of mining. Do not verify as a full node would and act like an SPV Wallet when you are the security of the network. SPV is what a user uses, not what a business should be using to protect its users when mining.

So the Thread is aptly titled. Why aren't you mining with Kano.is?
Results are huge, but not everything, the rest of the package is how you are respected and treated.

When you do couple the results with the "human factor", customer service in a nutshell, and integrity, wtf are you thinking mining anywhere else?

[philipma1957]

So I created this thread on Jan 23rd  pool was at 12ph it is now at 15ph.

pool was at block 462 now at block 478

luck was 104 percent now at 105 percent.

So some people looked at data and switched here.  Good  it means some people can follow the math.

Here are the blocks made since this thread started.


478   395589----25.41921514
477   395570----25.55367288 ---------0.97288802 running fees total
476   395547----25.41797096 ---------1.39085898
475   395526----25.08867424 ---------1.47953322
474   395454----25.15668552 ---------1.63621842
473   395413----25.05953458 ---------1.69575300
472   395410----25.08223258 ---------1.77798558
471   395269----25.39623988 ---------2.17422546
470   395200----25.37273511 ---------2.54696057
469   395103----25.14451370 ---------2.69147427
468   394970----25.40052943 ---------3.09200370   
467   394915----25.21982920 ---------3.31183290
466   394899----25.42805777 ---------3.73989067
465   394867----25.12545889 ---------3.86534956
464   394856----25.05731858 ---------3.92266814
463   394817----25.14775137 ---------4.07041951


so these 16 blocks are 16 x 25 = 400 + 4.07041951 total =

404.07041951  kanos fee is .9%

so 404.07041951 x .991 =

 400.43378573441

if you use antpool  PPLNS   it would be 16 x 25 = 400

The antpool no fee is deceptive  as they do not give you the fees earned by the block.

If you used ant pool [PPS] it would be 16 x 25 = 400 x .975 = 390

So:

  kano.is          =  400.433785
antpool PPLNS =  400.000000
antpool PPS     =  390.000000

these do not account for luck  these are fee structure numbers

they favor kano

when blocks go from 25 to 12.5  the numbers will favor kano more.

Since the tx id block earnings  will rise  and the block rewards will ½ .

BOTTOM LINE TRULY FAVORS MINING WITH KANO.IS



ps: I get zero $ or BTC for this thread

[jonnybravo0311]

The numbers are always going to favor kano.is no matter how you slice it.  The pool doesn't mine empty blocks like ant does.  Further as you pointed out, kano.is includes transaction fees for miners whereas ant does not.

[d57heinz]

So I created this thread on Jan 23rd  pool was at 12ph it is now at 15ph.

pool was at block 462 now at block 478

luck was 104 percent now at 105 percent.

So some people looked at data and switched here.  Good  it means some people can follow the math.

Here are the blocks made since this thread started.


478   395589----25.41921514
477   395570----25.55367288 ---------0.97288802 running fees total
476   395547----25.41797096 ---------1.39085898
475   395526----25.08867424 ---------1.47953322
474   395454----25.15668552 ---------1.63621842
473   395413----25.05953458 ---------1.69575300
472   395410----25.08223258 ---------1.77798558
471   395269----25.39623988 ---------2.17422546
470   395200----25.37273511 ---------2.54696057
469   395103----25.14451370 ---------2.69147427
468   394970----25.40052943 ---------3.09200370   
467   394915----25.21982920 ---------3.31183290
466   394899----25.42805777 ---------3.73989067
465   394867----25.12545889 ---------3.86534956
464   394856----25.05731858 ---------3.92266814
463   394817----25.14775137 ---------4.07041951


so these 16 blocks are 16 x 25 = 400 + 4.07041951 total =

404.07041951  kanos fee is .9%

so 404.07041951 x .991 =

 400.43378573441

if you use antpool  PPLNS   it would be 16 x 25 = 400

The antpool no fee is deceptive  as they do not give you the fees earned by the block.

If you used ant pool [PPS] it would be 16 x 25 = 400 x .975 = 390

So:

  kano.is          =  400.433785
antpool PPLNS =  400.000000
antpool PPS     =  390.000000

these do not account for luck  these are fee structure numbers

they favor kano

when blocks go from 25 to 12.5  the numbers will favor kano more.

Since the tx id block earnings  will rise  and the block rewards will ½ .

BOTTOM LINE TRULY FAVORS MINING WITH KANO.IS



ps: I get zero $ or BTC for this thread

But you do get paid by keeping up your post count however that may be.. Nothing wrong in that.. since we are being transparant in all   Can i ask what Bitmain pays you to do the lengthy threads on their machines?  Hell maybe this is a profitable gig.. idk

Best Regards
d57heinz

The numbers are always going to favor kano.is no matter how you slice it.  The pool doesn't mine empty blocks like ant does.  Further as you pointed out, kano.is includes transaction fees for miners whereas ant does not.

Comparing Kano to antpool is like comparing apples to oranges at this point..  The obvious ethical standards antpool shows vs kano is why i would choose kano if the luck was only 70% and ant was 130 %  at this point if kano no longer becomes an option for whatever unforeseen reason.. Solo would have to be the way to go for me.. I'm tired of wading thru all the bs that isn't necessary and is most likely what deters so many from getting what btc is all about..

Best Regards
d57heinz

[jonnybravo0311]

Comparing Kano to antpool is like comparing apples to oranges at this point..  The obvious ethical standards antpool shows vs kano is why i would choose kano if the luck was only 70% and ant was 130 %  at this point if kano no longer becomes an option for whatever unforeseen reason.. Solo would have to be the way to go for me.. I'm tired of wading thru all the bs that isn't necessary and is most likely what deters so many from getting what btc is all about..

Best Regards
d57heinz

Philosophically and ethically, it's a no-brainer on which pool to choose.  Stripping yourself of either or both of those constraints, the pure numbers show it is also a no-brainer on which pool to choose.  Happily enough, both answers are the same: kano.is.

[philipma1957]

So I created this thread on Jan 23rd  pool was at 12ph it is now at 15ph.

pool was at block 462 now at block 478

luck was 104 percent now at 105 percent.

So some people looked at data and switched here.  Good  it means some people can follow the math.

Here are the blocks made since this thread started.


478   395589----25.41921514
477   395570----25.55367288 ---------0.97288802 running fees total
476   395547----25.41797096 ---------1.39085898
475   395526----25.08867424 ---------1.47953322
474   395454----25.15668552 ---------1.63621842
473   395413----25.05953458 ---------1.69575300
472   395410----25.08223258 ---------1.77798558
471   395269----25.39623988 ---------2.17422546
470   395200----25.37273511 ---------2.54696057
469   395103----25.14451370 ---------2.69147427
468   394970----25.40052943 ---------3.09200370   
467   394915----25.21982920 ---------3.31183290
466   394899----25.42805777 ---------3.73989067
465   394867----25.12545889 ---------3.86534956
464   394856----25.05731858 ---------3.92266814
463   394817----25.14775137 ---------4.07041951


so these 16 blocks are 16 x 25 = 400 + 4.07041951 total =

404.07041951  kanos fee is .9%

so 404.07041951 x .991 =

 400.43378573441

if you use antpool  PPLNS   it would be 16 x 25 = 400

The antpool no fee is deceptive  as they do not give you the fees earned by the block.

If you used ant pool [PPS] it would be 16 x 25 = 400 x .975 = 390

So:

  kano.is          =  400.433785
antpool PPLNS =  400.000000
antpool PPS     =  390.000000

these do not account for luck  these are fee structure numbers

they favor kano

when blocks go from 25 to 12.5  the numbers will favor kano more.

Since the tx id block earnings  will rise  and the block rewards will ½ .

BOTTOM LINE TRULY FAVORS MINING WITH KANO.IS



ps: I get zero $ or BTC for this thread

But you do get paid by keeping up your post count however that may be.. Nothing wrong in that.. since we are being transparant in all Can i ask what Bitmain pays you to do the lengthy threads on their machines?  Hell maybe this is a profitable gig.. idk

Best Regards
d57heinz

The numbers are always going to favor kano.is no matter how you slice it.  The pool doesn't mine empty blocks like ant does.  Further as you pointed out, kano.is includes transaction fees for miners whereas ant does not.

Comparing Kano to antpool is like comparing apples to oranges at this point..  The obvious ethical standards antpool shows vs kano is why i would choose kano if the luck was only 70% and ant was 130 %  at this point if kano no longer becomes an option for whatever unforeseen reason.. Solo would have to be the way to go for me.. I'm tired of wading thru all the bs that isn't necessary and is most likely what deters so many from getting what btc is all about..

Best Regards
d57heinz

@d57heinz

Sure you can ask.  

I will tell you a full breakdown for the last  year I received  from bitmain
1 s-5 for free from bitmain I wrote a review on it in Dec of 2014 and part of Jan 2015.

I will even tel you what Avalon gave me for the thread on Avalon 4.1 I wrote a long interview on it around dec 2014 - jan 2014.

They supplied me with a free 4.1 and 1 discounted 4.1


And for the massive sp20 thread I wrote on my own I got nothing.  But once people responded to it well I got 3 sp20s for the price of 2.

All in all I believe I have been given about 4k in gear over the last 3 years.

I most likely earned about 7btc for posting since 2014.
To be fair about posts I made about 300 posts a month from Aug 2012 to April 2014. No signature fees

Since then I make about 500 posts a month.  with  signature fees

I have given back more then 1 btc on my diff thread.
I have given back more then 1 btc of free hash on my compac stick club.
I have given away 4 compac sticks for contests.

ON the s-7  bitmain owes me money and won't give it to me.
ON the Avalon6 I made 0 despite running 2 group buys.
In fact I am still waiting on the replacement board  that I paid 350 usd for.

Lastly in the server psu world  I got 3 servers last year to run reviews on

and currently I am doing a review thread  for finksy/j4bberwock   in which I spent about 600 usd out of my pocket returned 2 psus  for 700

and was given about 200 in gear from finsky/j4bberwock.

And if I was to be paid by the post I would be getting about 50% more then I do asking for the flat rate.

Trust me my motives on this site are very simple I make an effort to not go broke promoting BTC.

For me huge profits are not going to happen plain and simple.

[thedreamer]

Having dealt numerous times with Phillipma1957 on and off the forum , I would not consider him a sell out or being paid by anyone for what he does.
If he does get paid directly, it is also not our business. He backs his info with facts in any thread he has. He is very helpful on pretty much anything I have ever asked him about in the past.

He is one of the very few people we should NOT be worried about being a sell-out on this SCAM-ridden and BS-filled forum...

On that note, I started on KANO.IS early last year and have been stuck on it (in a good way).
Always earning more than any other pool, even after some less than prosperous days of red blocks.

I only wish KANO would have an alt-coin pool.   

[philipma1957]

Having dealt numerous times with Phillipma1957 on and off the forum , I would not consider him a sell out or being paid by anyone for what he does.
If he does get paid directly, it is also not our business. He backs his info with facts in any thread he has. He is very helpful on pretty much anything I have ever asked him about in the past.

He is one of the very few people we should NOT be worried about being a sell-out on this SCAM-ridden and BS-filled forum...

On that note, I started on KANO.IS early last year and have been stuck on it (in a good way).
Always earning more than any other pool, even after some less than prosperous days of red blocks.

I only wish KANO would have an alt-coin pool.   

I wrote the thread  because I believe what I wrote.

Sure does help when the luck rate is  over 120%  since I wrote the thread.

I have zero Chinese hash in any form.  My gear is at

 kano.is
solo ck pool
jonnybravo
compac stick club
mmpool

[fr4nkthetank]

i MINE at kano.is pool.  and what can I tell you, I used to mine PPS, and dont get me wrong, I was content, and happy.  But now, I am more than happy, more than content, I am exctatic.  The luck this pool has, Its not natural.  must be alien tech. 

[philipma1957]

The kano.is pool has grown from 12 ph to 20 ph since this thread opened.

I am happy to see that 8ph worth of hash has come to kano's pool.

The net work is growing fast but for the last 8 days kano.is is grower faster.


Remember  the Feb 1  Avalon 6 giveaway will start in about 5 or 6 hours.

[Mikestang]

This is a fascinating thread (well, as fascinating as statistical discussion go), thanks for starting it, Phil.  I posted something to this effect in the Antpool thread when I first got into bitcoin about a year ago, I just couldn't understand why so many people where pointed to that pool (which only exists for Bitmain's benefit) when there were so many better choices out there, and even a year ago before I knew what I do today I figured out that kano.is was coded and run how a pool should be.  I'm glad to see that reasoning is finally spreading its way out to the masses.

[philipma1957]

This is a fascinating thread (well, as fascinating as statistical discussion go), thanks for starting it, Phil.  I posted something to this effect in the Antpool thread when I first got into bitcoin about a year ago, I just couldn't understand why so many people where pointed to that pool (which only exists for Bitmain's benefit) when there were so many better choices out there, and even a year ago before I knew what I do today I figured out that kano.is was coded and run how a pool should be.  I'm glad to see that reasoning is finally spreading its way out to the masses.

yeah I would love to see a beast farm point 30ph day in and day out   for a month or two.

Years ago Friedcat of AsicMiner pointed 25% of the network at bitminter.  If was impressive to say the least.  We were ripping blocks like mad.

Kano.is should be at 5% of the network.  Not really hard to understand the math.

I get that connectivity  is a good reason to not join a pool.
I get that the sellers of gear may twist arms to mine at their pool (a rumor someone posted here about antpool)  I do not know if it is true.

But if anyone has some skills with math  the edge for kano.is  will grow come the ½ ing  as blocks gain a 2x fee per block.

Here is a simple example below

25 +  .25   block fees      the .25 = 1%

12.5 + .25 block fees       the .25 = 2%

[dodziu]

from 1st Jan to 1st Feb on kano i mined 1,854 btc with 2 x S7b7 10THs +-5%
according to any calculator i should mine 1.46btc with December 31st diff only, but it jumped almost 15% in January only.

like i mentioned before, its not luck only,its about few factors together, which are on the highest standard here

[ShrykeZ]

Thanks for the thread, as informative as ever Phil. I believe you have provided all the factual evidence needed to prove people are better off mining at Kano, will be pointing my SP20's there in the coming weeks.

[ezeminer]

Having dealt numerous times with Phillipma1957 on and off the forum , I would not consider him a sell out or being paid by anyone for what he does.
If he does get paid directly, it is also not our business. He backs his info with facts in any thread he has. He is very helpful on pretty much anything I have ever asked him about in the past.

He is one of the very few people we should NOT be worried about being a sell-out on this SCAM-ridden and BS-filled forum...

On that note, I started on KANO.IS early last year and have been stuck on it (in a good way).
Always earning more than any other pool, even after some less than prosperous days of red blocks.

I only wish KANO would have an alt-coin pool.   

I wrote the thread  because I believe what I wrote.

Sure does help when the luck rate is  over 120%  since I wrote the thread.

I have zero Chinese hash in any form.  My gear is at

 kano.is
solo ck pool
jonnybravo
compac stick club
mmpool

I find it interesting how much philip has done for the community and has kept doing awesome things. Hosting group buys, offering free hash for people that got screwed (and getting a block), and helping people in general. Keep being awesome phil.

If I ever go back to mining, I will probably choose kano over slush. I never knew there was this much variance.

[philipma1957]

Having dealt numerous times with Phillipma1957 on and off the forum , I would not consider him a sell out or being paid by anyone for what he does.
If he does get paid directly, it is also not our business. He backs his info with facts in any thread he has. He is very helpful on pretty much anything I have ever asked him about in the past.

He is one of the very few people we should NOT be worried about being a sell-out on this SCAM-ridden and BS-filled forum...

On that note, I started on KANO.IS early last year and have been stuck on it (in a good way).
Always earning more than any other pool, even after some less than prosperous days of red blocks.

I only wish KANO would have an alt-coin pool.  

I wrote the thread  because I believe what I wrote.

Sure does help when the luck rate is  over 120%  since I wrote the thread.

I have zero Chinese hash in any form.  My gear is at

 kano.is
solo ck pool
jonnybravo
compac stick club
mmpool

I find it interesting how much philip has done for the community and has kept doing awesome things. Hosting group buys, offering free hash for people that got screwed (and getting a block), and helping people in general. Keep being awesome phil.

If I ever go back to mining, I will probably choose kano over slush. I never knew there was this much variance.

and giving away ⅔ of the block mentioned plus  when coins in it matured  they were at 480usd (IIRC) during the fall run up.

That was  a pretty cool thing to happen.