My Swing Developer / Hero account stolen - sold to Altcoin4Life in scam loan

[SwingDev]

Hey guys,

You've probably seen this topic already. I've been advised to make my own scam accusation thread.

I'll try to TLDR this as much as possible.

My account MurderousKirk (Developer of Swing) was stolen while I was inactive. The thief managed to sell it to Altcoin4Life for 0.13 BTC as collateral in a scam loan (which he has since defaulted on). This happened as a result of Altcoin4Life not requesting a proper signed message for the account being used as collateral.

The only lead we have on the thief is:

4) The person i gave the loan to has given me a secondary username on btctalk to contact him about the loan....
he is called marcos012 and his profile is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=686858

Here is proof that I own MuderousKirk

I'll just go ahead and post now that I understand it's secure with an attached message.

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I am the real owner of the account MurderousKirk. Today is 1/26/16 8:00PM EST. I misunderstood the signature process and am now posting this to secure my account from Altcoin4life.
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71
H1mNchP2wcPFHiIdMigU/j2kX9Jlm6d+jXSEOLoc2XyxKU8d2IpSkkPaSyf2acDb6b0f4bOCR7p+CjoHq+VWm50=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Location of addy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

verified with electrum!

I initially refused to provide a signed message to Altcoin4Life due to a misunderstanding on my part. I thought theymos used blank signed messages for account recovery, and that this was what Altcoin4Life was requesting. I saw this as a security risk and flat out refused till whywefight set me straight. This misunderstanding caused a lot of stress and tension between Altcoin4Life and I. I believe it's part of the reason he has yet to return the account.

So it's been proven that I'm the actual owner of the account.

After I provided proof Altcoin4Life decided not to return the account unless I purchased it from him to help cover his loss.

Hi Swingdev
THANKS FOR FINALLY SIGNING A MESSAGE PROVING YOU ARE THE REAL OWNER OF THE ACCOUNT!
I asked for this message a long time ago.... we could have saved a lot of time and hassle if you just gave me proof of signed message 1 week ago!
I know you have sent a report to theymos BUT this will probably take time to get your account back.
Now as you know i have lost 0.13 BTC from this defaulted loan that has now turned out to be hacked. This collateral has neg trust and is of no use to me at all. you say it has use to you as the dev account.
WE BOTH MADE ERRORS.
YOU made errors by:
1 - Not securing the murderouskirk account properly with a secure password... or other malware etc
2- Not posting a scam accusation on this forum immediately after you realised.
I MADE ERRORS by:
not getting a staked address from an old post on this forum. Accepting the thief's story and transferring coins.
As we both made errors i believe it is best you make a partial transfer to me for my loss BEFORE I PM YOU THE PASSWORD.
I believe you have a part to blame as you made errors with securing the original account  by being hacked.
ALSO AS YOU SAY THIS IS A DEV ACCOUNT YOU WILL PROBABLY USE MURDEROUSKIRK TO EARN SOMETHING IN THE NEAR FUTURE WITH YOUR RELATED ALT COINS YOU DEVELOP.... SO YOU WILL BENEFIT FINANCIALLY ....WHILE I HAVE A LOSS.
Please tell me by pm how much can you pay me as a partial payment that his FAIR FOR BOTH OF US?
Let me know by pm
Thanks
Altcoin4life

I have refused to buy my stolen account back. I have also publicly stated before his payment request that upon successful return of the account I will leave a positive review of his credibility, and tip him to help cover his loss if/when my btc portfolio grows from its current state of 0.01 btc. This is the only opportunity Altcoin4Life has to receive any money from me to help cover his loss.

Altcoin4Life up to this point has refused to return the account without payment.

Should any changes be made via MurderousKirk, especially to the Swing altcoin thread I want it to be made public that Altcoin4Life is currently responsible for any actions taken by MurderousKirk, and will continue to be until I give a digital signature proving I have regained access.

I also want it to be made public that I do not think Altcoin4Life intentionally agreed to give a loan on a stolen account, nor do I think he has had any malicious intent (aside from telling me to buy my account from him).

Thanks.

[1715379690]

1715379690

[1715379690]

1715379690

[james.lent]

Well i guess you should've been more active then since it was a dev account. Since no one was informed that the account was stolen/hacked/etc, Altcoin4Life had every right to do whatever he wants with the account. Being careless on your end shouldn't cause damages to others. He's only trying to recover what he had lost.

I want it to be made public that Altcoin4Life is currently responsible for any actions taken by MurderousKirk

I dont think this is fair either. Whoever owns MurderousKirk would be responsible for any actions made.

[SwingDev]

I want it to be made public that Altcoin4Life is currently responsible for any actions taken by MurderousKirk

I dont think this is fair either. Whoever owns MurderousKirk would be responsible for any actions made.

I believe there was warning rep on the account and users warned him before he made the loan. He said he didn't see the rep on the account. I think it was added shortly before he sent the loan. He did however see users making warning posts in his threads.

I guess I should also point out it was only a period of 14 days that I was inactive on bitcointalk. I was however active in my slack group.

I want it to be made public that Altcoin4Life is currently responsible for any actions taken by MurderousKirk

I dont think this is fair either. Whoever owns MurderousKirk would be responsible for any actions made.

So that would be Altcoin4Life at this point in time. He is the only one with access.

[james.lent]

Well i hope you guys settle this issue by coming up with some terms or something via pm instead of having a ton of threads open here. Theymos will never recover it, so your only option is to speak with Altcoin4Life

[SwingDev]

Well i hope you guys settle this issue by coming up with some terms or something via pm instead of having a ton of threads open here. Theymos will never recover it, so your only option is to speak with Altcoin4Life

I'd prefer to keep things public at this point.

I've made this thread to consolidate his 3 into 1 place and have a clean post to include as reference in rep reports.

If Altcoin4Life is willing to continue discussions he can post here. If not so be it.

Being careless on your end shouldn't cause damages to others. He's only trying to recover what he had lost.

I'd also like to point out that being careless on his end doesn't transfer his lost btc to my debt. I'm only trying to recover what I've lost.

Like I said, I intend to tip him as I can if the account is recovered by his kindness. I do not intend to buy it from him in order to have it returned. A: I can't afford it B: I feel this is not right. I believe this is fair and if he refuses and wants to keep my account that's his choice.

Theymos will never recover it

Side note. It's a shame how little faith everyone has in the account recovery of this forum. I've heard this over and over even before my account got stolen. I'd love to see Theymos start proving everyone wrong. To be frank I find it a bit ridiculous that tracking down the new account holder and paying him off is the most likely method of account recovery on a respectable money forum.

[SwingDev]

Here's some posts from community members showing support. Thanks guys! You're awesome. 

Personally, I think it's not fair to require money for the situation.

Paying now results in getting hacked once again in the furture. I personally wouldnt pay anything.

but thats my 50 cents...

the best way for him to make a profit out of it, is to hand over the account, invest in SWING and let the dev works his magic...

He's a lot of work put into building his image ..
This is his identity.
I know what it means because I also lost my account for over a month.

The account is now the property of Altcoin4life and it is justified.

Nope, if something is stolen and then sold off (or in this case given away/taken collateral), it stays property of the original owner, as the thief didn't have the right to give it away in any case.
Altcoin4life isn't the rightful owner, SwingDev proved to be.

I agree with this x1000.  I do hope swingdev gets his stolen account back with no hassle.   It is rightfully his.

[iwasneverhere]

Wow, have to be more careful. Wish your account was returned, but have no idea how it would be fair to both sides.

[rezilient]

Wow, have to be more careful. Wish your account was returned, but have no idea how it would be fair to both sides.

Nice useful post.

[wayniac30]

It seems to me both parties are at fault here.

Do we have any idea how the original account was hacked? Was it brute forced? Was it a keylogger/virus/malware on the original account holders computer? Was it a weak/common password?
If the password was real secure it would have been a virus/malware on the original account holders computer, this puts the blame more towards SwingDev IMHO. If the password was weak SwingDev should have made it more secure, especially on a Hero Member account.

As for Altcoins part in this, ALWAYS make sure you get a signed message from a stacked address, this is the ONLY way to make sure the user is actually the REAL account holder.

I think taking a 50/50 on the loss here is fair for both parties as it's very obvious they both made mistakes:

- SwingDev: hacked account so it obviously wasn't secure or your PC was infected
- Altcoins4Life: you should have made sure you got a signed message from a stacked address

Split it guys - 50/50, that's my advice.

[ABitNut]

Unless Theymos changed their mind this is how he thinks about a similar situation:

I think that marcotheminer should return the account now since it was probably hacked, but everyone should give yussuf89 negative feedback for being unable to stand behind his account's actions unless he pays 50-75% of the loan principle. (This is just my opinion -- I'm not going to try to enforce it.)

Not the "I'm not going to try to enforce it" part. You really do have to work it out with Altcoin4Life. And that (usually) means compromise.

Also for future reference these are the password changes on the account:

January 14, 2016, 10:43:08 PM - murderouskirk - password changed
January 13, 2016, 11:59:41 PM - murderouskirk - password changed
January 13, 2016, 11:18:51 PM - murderouskirk - password changed
January 13, 2016, 11:15:09 PM - murderouskirk - password changed
January 06, 2016, 01:23:21 AM - murderouskirk - password changed

On a side note: is there any evidence that the account was hacked? Or are we to believe you on your word?

[DaddyMonsi]

Altcoin4Life is at the losing end here, if Altcoin4Life keeps MurderousKirk account, he can't use it anyway since the account is already tagged or it's known that it's an account used for a loan scam. Altcoin4Life can't sell it as well for same reason. Maybe the best option here at least is just to return the account back to the rightful owner Swingdev and Swingdev at the very least give something in return to Altcoin4Life as a token of returning the hacked account. Token should not be at the rate of like buying back the account.

[suchmoon]

This is not the first time I've seen Altcoin4Life not doing proper due diligence. On the other hand I dislike the whole account collateral scheme so my opinion is obviously biased. I just don't see how either side here can claim any moral high ground. SwingDev - I'd suggest to suck it up and move on. It's just an account. It doesn't really have a tangible value unless you were planning to sell it or scam with it or something.

[Joel_Jantsen]

Altcoin4life has some issues indeed.First be was bragging about the signed messages.Once they were provided ,now he is whining to get paid in order to give the account back.@Altcoin4life,how difficult it is to understand this ? The rightful owner of the account is asking his account back,just give it already.Its because of your "GREED" you've lost your money,why project your losses on swingdev?Mexxer did mention ,not to trade with him and despite of that you took risks involved.Accept your mistake and move on.If you were so much concerned about your money,you shouldn't have given the loan in the first place.

@SwingDev: That account is useless anyway.No one is paying shit for it.Make a new account and continue.If you're planning to pay altcoin4life to get your own account back,please make sure you don't pay anything more than 0.001(that would cover up the transaction fees ).Jokes only. Get my point.Move on.

[Altcoin4life]

Well i hope you guys settle this issue by coming up with some terms or something via pm instead of having a ton of threads open here. Theymos will never recover it, so your only option is to speak with Altcoin4Life

I'd prefer to keep things public at this point.

I've made this thread to consolidate his 3 into 1 place and have a clean post to include as reference in rep reports.

If Altcoin4Life is willing to continue discussions he can post here. If not so be it.

Being careless on your end shouldn't cause damages to others. He's only trying to recover what he had lost.

I'd also like to point out that being careless on his end doesn't transfer his lost btc to my debt. I'm only trying to recover what I've lost.

Like I said, I intend to tip him as I can if the account is recovered by his kindness. I do not intend to buy it from him in order to have it returned. A: I can't afford it B: I feel this is not right. I believe this is fair and if he refuses and wants to keep my account that's his choice.

Theymos will never recover it

Side note. It's a shame how little faith everyone has in the account recovery of this forum. I've heard this over and over even before my account got stolen. I'd love to see Theymos start proving everyone wrong. To be frank I find it a bit ridiculous that tracking down the new account holder and paying him off is the most likely method of account recovery on a respectable money forum.

Hi Swing

Thanks for your comment, let me know if theymos does contact you and give you your account back.

I WILL BE MUCH MORE CAUTIOUS FROM NOW ON.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

[SwingDev]

Well i hope you guys settle this issue by coming up with some terms or something via pm instead of having a ton of threads open here. Theymos will never recover it, so your only option is to speak with Altcoin4Life

I'd prefer to keep things public at this point.

I've made this thread to consolidate his 3 into 1 place and have a clean post to include as reference in rep reports.

If Altcoin4Life is willing to continue discussions he can post here. If not so be it.

Being careless on your end shouldn't cause damages to others. He's only trying to recover what he had lost.

I'd also like to point out that being careless on his end doesn't transfer his lost btc to my debt. I'm only trying to recover what I've lost.

Like I said, I intend to tip him as I can if the account is recovered by his kindness. I do not intend to buy it from him in order to have it returned. A: I can't afford it B: I feel this is not right. I believe this is fair and if he refuses and wants to keep my account that's his choice.

Theymos will never recover it

Side note. It's a shame how little faith everyone has in the account recovery of this forum. I've heard this over and over even before my account got stolen. I'd love to see Theymos start proving everyone wrong. To be frank I find it a bit ridiculous that tracking down the new account holder and paying him off is the most likely method of account recovery on a respectable money forum.

Hi Swing

Thanks for your comment, let me know if theymos does contact you and give you your account back.

I WILL BE MUCH MORE CAUTIOUS FROM NOW ON.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

Wow.. that's a shame Altcoin4life.

I'm going to update my rep review to negative since you are refusing to return it unless I buy from you. If you return the account I'll update it.

[ABitNut]

So the conclusion is that both of you failed to compromise. That is sad indeed; it means you both lost fully where you had a change to both reduce your losses.

I suggest locking the relevant topics as this issue seems over.

[SwingDev]

So the conclusion is that both of you failed to compromise. That is sad indeed; it means you both lost fully where you had a change to both reduce your losses.

I suggest locking the relevant topics as this issue seems over.

I offered to work towards helping him cover his loss as I was able to. I actually intented to ask him for a public addy where I could slowly try to cover his loss. I was hoping to try to cover it in full if I was able. Even my community was looking to help in this. I am unable to pay him up front and refusing to return the account unless I do is just greedy.

My offer is still open for now which i feel is generous and fair at this point. Please do not close this thread. A4l still has a chance to change his mind. If he does not within a reasonable amount of time I would like a place to publicly close and end my offer. Admins can lock the other threads If they want.

I'm not looking to have him hang my offer over my head a year from now.

At this point I've accepted the loss and plan to work on building the rep of this account since it seems I won't be able to correct murderouskirk.

[Altcoin4life]

So the conclusion is that both of you failed to compromise. That is sad indeed; it means you both lost fully where you had a change to both reduce your losses.

I suggest locking the relevant topics as this issue seems over.

I offered to work towards helping him cover his loss as I was able to. I actually intented to ask him for a public addy where I could slowly try to cover his loss. I was hoping to try to cover it in full if I was able. Even my community was looking to help in this. I am unable to pay him up front and refusing to return the account unless I do is just greedy.

My offer is still open for now which i feel is generous and fair at this point. Please do not close this thread. A4l still has a chance to change his mind. If he does not within a reasonable amount of time I would like a place to publicly close and end my offer. Admins can lock the other threads If they want.

I'm not looking to have him hang my offer over my head a year from now.

At this point I've accepted the loss and plan to work on building the rep of this account since it seems I won't be able to correct murderouskirk.

Hi Swingdev

You still have not made it clear what you mean in terms of recovering some of the loss.

IF I DID HAND OVER THE ACCOUNT NOW... how would this loss be recovered?

How much would you actually pay?

How long would it take to pay this figure?

My payment address is 1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop if you need it in the future.

You need to explain a bit more about this potential payment after i give the account.... please give details.

Let me know on this thread.

Also have you had any emails from theymos yet?

Thanks
Altcoin4life

[Blazed]

So you bought an account without proof that it was not hacked (collateral/bought whatever you want to call it)? Altcoin4life is at fault here plain and simple. He did not do his due diligence so he should take the small loss as a lesson and move on.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I agree with Blazed and everyone else here.  I think it's a total asshole move on Altcoin4life's part to keep the account after he fucked up the due diligence.  It's the wrong thing to do and this forum remembers things like that.  By doing this, Altcoin4life is placing a very, very specific value on his integrity, and that value appears to be quite small.  Just sayin'.