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Author Topic: Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another?  (Read 37763 times)
BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2016, 03:29:55 PM
 #381

I think it's pretty disingenuous at this point to suggest that any of these guys don't want what's best for Bitcoin. They just don't/can't/won't agree on what that is.

The strategy of Gavin is to say "we need to change right now so give me control of the project with this simple but nasty hack" whereas the strategy of the core devs is we are building proper scalability solutions and have a plan.

I'd say that the plan is the better way forward.


This is ridiculous. Gavin gave up his role as benevolent dictator. Who do you think dished out all the commit access in the first place?

The man honestly believes that different implementations are the right way to go about decentralizing all the things. He might be wrong, but to (yet again) suggest he's illintentioned is bad faith at best.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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CIYAM
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January 31, 2016, 03:32:49 PM
 #382

This is ridiculous. Gavin gave up his role as benevolent dictator. Who do you think dished out all the commit access in the first place?

Likely a move he has now regretted (as he is clearly trying to get back this power).

The man honestly believes that different implementations are the right way to go about decentralizing all the things. He might be wrong, but to (yet again) suggest he's illintentioned is bad faith at best.

If he was serious then he wouldn't just switch from XT to Classic in a matter of weeks and not even bother turning up to Hong Kong to discuss capacity scaling, etc.

It is hard to imagine that he is not trying to destroy the project when he refuses to communicate with anyone involved (and instead runs around trying to get a hard-fork to happen with as little as 75% consensus).

How on earth can you put a positive spin on his behaviour since he left?

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Fatman3001
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January 31, 2016, 03:52:31 PM
 #383

I think it's pretty disingenuous at this point to suggest that any of these guys don't want what's best for Bitcoin. They just don't/can't/won't agree on what that is.

The strategy of Gavin is to say "we need to change right now so give me control of the project with this simple but nasty hack" whereas the strategy of the core devs is we are building proper scalability solutions and have a plan.

I'd say that the plan is the better way forward (and I'm not even being paid for saying this - shame on me).


In the middle of all of this there seems to be a genuine disagreement about the potential consequences of limiting the capacity of the network until the different scaling measures take effect. I can understand why many programmers may be hesitant about doing a hard fork, but there are potential consequences for the Bitcoin economy which might be a larger threat to Bitcoins success than a nail biting hard fork.





An optimist might think Bitcoin needs room to grow sooner rather than later.


"I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse." - Robert Metcalfe, 1995
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January 31, 2016, 03:55:02 PM
 #384

At the end of the day we don't even need Bitcoin to scale in order to have a "store of value" (do we really need to revisit the stupid "coffees" argument again?).

So there is no rush (unless you are Gavin who knows that his chance to "become dictator" again is running out rapidly).

If you are just "so impatient" to do more txs might I suggest that you try Litecoin or another alt?

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Fatman3001
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January 31, 2016, 04:00:21 PM
 #385

At the end of the day we don't even need Bitcoin to scale in order to have a "store of value" (do we really need to revisit the stupid "coffees" argument again?).

So there is no rush (unless you are Gavin who knows that his chance to "become dictator" again is running out rapidly).

If you are just "so impatient" to do more txs might I suggest that you try Litecoin or another alt?


No utility = No value

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January 31, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
 #386

It needs to be useful as money first.

No it doesn't - gold isn't very useful "as money" yet it is still extremely useful as a store of value (same with other precious metals and minerals).

Bitcoin has never been as easy to use a conventional things like credit cards (and still isn't) so if your argument is about usability then Bitcoin should have already failed.

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BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2016, 04:06:23 PM
 #387

It needs to be useful as money first.

No it doesn't - gold isn't very useful "as money" yet it is still extremely useful as a store of value (same with other precious metals and minerals).

Gold was useful first. Why do you think it became money. Have a look at the periodic table if you still think gold is just a shiny metal.

Quote
Bitcoin has never been as easy to use a conventional things like credit cards (and still isn't) so if your argument is about usability then Bitcoin should have already failed.

Drugs and gambling and capital flight from China is great. Is that really your sole ambition for Bitcoin?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 31, 2016, 04:08:16 PM
 #388

Gold was useful first. Why do you think it became money. Have a look at the periodic table if you still think gold is just a shiny metal.

Then you agree it is not useful now. But it still has its value - how?

Drugs and gambling and capital flight from China is great. Is that really your sole ambition for Bitcoin?

What on earth are you on about (when have I ever promoted the use of Bitcoin for drugs or capital flight)?

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January 31, 2016, 04:09:56 PM
 #389

Roll Eyes

That is not an answer.

If you want to be treated like an adult then please behave like one (you are behaving like a silly child right now).

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January 31, 2016, 04:23:42 PM
 #390

If Gavin would agree to simply have "no power" then I would support him (you and I both know that he will never do that as he only cares about taking control and doesn't care if he destroys Bitcoin in the process of trying to do so).

Ass.

Ass?

I see - you are resorting to insults now - guess I've beaten you then.

Next?

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Fatman3001
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January 31, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
 #391

It needs to be useful as money first.

No it doesn't - gold isn't very useful "as money" yet it is still extremely useful as a store of value (same with other precious metals and minerals).

Bitcoin has never been as easy to use a conventional things like credit cards (and still isn't) so if your argument is about usability then Bitcoin should have already failed.


Gold is used as heat shielding in both performance machines and satellites.

It is used for mirrors in space telescopes.

It is used as a coating on electronics to prevent corrosion.

It is used for jewelry and decoration.

It is used in heat reflecting windows.

It is used to reflect electromagnetic radiation in military jets.

In fact, It has lots of unique use cases, but cost limits its use.

"I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse." - Robert Metcalfe, 1995
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January 31, 2016, 04:28:05 PM
 #392

Gold is used as heat shielding in both performance machines and satellites.

It is used for mirrors in space telescopes.

It is used as a coating on electronics to prevent corrosion.

It is used for jewelry and decoration.

It is used in heat reflecting windows.

It is used to reflect electromagnetic radiation in military jets.

In fact, It has lots of unique use cases, but cost limits its use.

But why is that every time we have a financial crisis gold goes up in value?

(hint - it isn't for any of the above reasons)

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2016, 04:36:14 PM
 #393

For the record, this is the least technical discussion I've ever taken part in. Ever hear the story of the chess playing pigeon? It just shits all over the board and struts around like it won something.  Undecided

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 31, 2016, 04:38:08 PM
 #394

For the record, this is the least technical discussion I've ever taken part in. Ever hear the story of the chess playing pigeon? It just shits all over the board and struts around like it won something.  Undecided

Then why not try stating something worthy of technical discussion?

Assuming that you are capable of that then there is no reason we can't actually make this topic have some technical point (so far it has just been politics).

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Fatman3001
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January 31, 2016, 04:45:10 PM
 #395

Gold is used as heat shielding in both performance machines and satellites.

It is used for mirrors in space telescopes.

It is used as a coating on electronics to prevent corrosion.

It is used for jewelry and decoration.

It is used in heat reflecting windows.

It is used to reflect electromagnetic radiation in military jets.

In fact, It has lots of unique use cases, but cost limits its use.

But why is that every time we have a financial crisis gold goes up in value?

(hint - it isn't for any of the above reasons)


Because you only see what you want to see.



The current upswing is more in line with the growth in mobile devices than economic crises.

"I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse." - Robert Metcalfe, 1995
BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 PM
 #396

http://xtnodes.com/other_nodes_and_xt_nodes_alldata.php

An interesting note on a reversal of node count drop off in that data. There appears to be a slight reversal in the downward trend due to decentralization of implementations. It will be interesting to see if this number continues to increase or not. We really need more incentives to increase economic full nodes. Payment channels like lightning may be the larger incentive to do just that.

There don't seem to be any hard psychological or financial incentives to running full nodes built into the system. I imagine if consumer use ever takes off in China we'll see more of them pop up?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 31, 2016, 04:47:33 PM
 #397

Because you only see what you want to see.

Graphs are what politicians use to convince the masses of whatever they want to.

Please don't waste my time (like Peter R always does) with such nonsense.

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January 31, 2016, 04:49:19 PM
 #398

There don't seem to be any hard psychological or financial incentives to running full nodes built into the system. I imagine if consumer use ever takes off in China we'll see more of them pop up?

We are not going to see that as Bitcoin is not allowed to be used for commercial purchases in China (it is only allowed to be used like a "stock").

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 31, 2016, 05:07:04 PM
 #399

There don't seem to be any hard psychological or financial incentives to running full nodes built into the system. I imagine if consumer use ever takes off in China we'll see more of them pop up?

We are not going to see that as Bitcoin is not allowed to be used for commercial purchases in China (it is only allowed to be used like a "stock").


You're in China. Can't you fix that? Get them all grokked to the ethos or whatever already. Angry

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 31, 2016, 05:10:21 PM
 #400

You're in China. Can't you fix that? Get them all grokked to the ethos or whatever already. Angry

I don't think that the Chinese government really gives much of a fuck what I think about (and if they did that would actually probably be of concern to me).

As I stated before - for the purpose of communication between the core devs and the Chinese miners I would offer my help (free of charge) because I am a Bitcoin "believer".

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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