[BTC-TC and BF] MININGCO.ETF - Closed

[creativex]

There is even an ask for a short on creativex's BASIC-MINING asset.

I found that amusing. We have enough uncommitted funds on hand to order 3.75 more units and someone thinks shorting us is a good idea. I'd certainly think a mining company that put all of their eggs in one basket and has no reserves would be a far better target if the basket was found to have a hole in it, but I'm just a dumb miner.    

[Carnth]

There is even an ask for a short on creativex's BASIC-MINING asset.

I found that amusing.

I also found that amusing.



I have also received some PMs about waiting to release shares until after ASICs come out. I would like to know what everyone thinks.

Would you be willing to buy in this fund if it started trading now? Investing in underlying assets that have pre-orders for various ASIC companies but no guarantees? Would you feel like the fund would be missing out on buying underlying assets at a discount if we waited; and prices would soar after the ASICs come?

[Carnth]

Here is a summary of the thread so far for the tl;dr people:

Portions of the contract include:
A fund that includes Bitcoin Mining Companies. The companies included can be from any exchange, and in some cases, not on any exchange.
All companies included will be weighted equally. Dividends will be paid every week, or so.


Current issues:

• Is the management fee of 6.9% of dividends fair?
• Should the fund go live before ASICs hit the scene (potential to get good pricing, but much more risk). Or should the fund wait until after ASICs (less risk, pricing should stabilize).

I would like to get feed back on these issues.

[burnside]

Here is a summary of the thread so far for the tl;dr people:

Portions of the contract include:
A fund that includes Bitcoin Mining Companies. The companies included can be from any exchange, and in some cases, not on any exchange.
All companies included will be weighted equally. Dividends will be paid every week, or so.


Current issues:

• Is the management fee of 6.9% of dividends fair?
• Should the fund go live before ASICs hit the scene (potential to get good pricing, but much more risk). Or should the fund wait until after ASICs (less risk, pricing should stabilize).

I would like to get feed back on these issues.

If you're going percentage based, a fair management fee (for me) depends on a ratio of (a) how much time you're spending on it, to (b) how much in dividends the fund processes.  With the goal being whatever percentage you choose should feel to you like a fair wage for your time spent.  I know that setting it too high will turn some people off, but anyone buying into the fund will want to make sure that you're taken care of so that you remain motivated to do a good job managing the fund.

With regard to releasing before or after ASIC's, you might just make sure that each company you invest in has a decent ASIC plan in place.  Then in theory everything else balances out because you are spreading the risk across multiple companies.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

Cheers.

[creativex]

The fee is reasonable IMO, given the additional homework management will be required to do on mining companies outside of BTC-TC.

As a small investor I'd be more interested in your fund prior to ASICs being released to potentially give me some exposure to mining companies and vendors I'm unwilling to commit relatively large sums to. I'd hope anyone investing in a mining ETF would have some inkling of the technological precipice we're currently resting on and understand the associated risks. After ASICs are released I'd be more likely to simply determine which mining companies will enjoy the greatest benefit and invest with them directly.

[Carnth]

I plan to release shares for sale "soon."

Starting up, the fund would invest in Nasty Mining, Cognitive, bASIC-MINING and GMP.

With these companies, all three major ASICs vendors will be represented.


In keeping with the Asset Issuer terms, Cognitive and bASIC-MINING would have to be capped at 20% of the value of the entire fund, each.
Nasty and GMP are allowed to have more than 20% of the value of the fund since they are not on btct.co, but my asset contract states that all underlying assets will be balanced with all other assets within 10% margin of error of the entire fund's worth. The rest will be held in BTC for buybacks and keeping in compliance with the Issuer Terms and Asset Contract.

Honesty: Buying into this fund at the start is probably the most risk you will see in this fund. It will be a very rocky start, especially being on the cusp of ASICs being released.   

[laSeek]

• Is the management fee of 6.9% of dividends fair?

I would like to get feed back on these issues.

I prefer a % based management fee - it's one of the best encouragements to ensure the fund is managed.
It's good to see somebody being upfront with the risk reward - it inspires confidence.

[creativex]

Agreed. Carnth has been very professional about this startup, very encouraging.

[Carnth]

First batch of shares are on sale for BTC0.5

[Carnth]

Added a "Dividends" tab to the spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqLxDN0JzEUNdHdhandXeDQwTU13N2ZmbWxMMHNzeGc

This will track dividends received and paid by the fund.

[Carnth]

Added additional "proof of ownership" details on the second post to enhance transparency. (Added Nasty Fans list and the Fund's Bitcoin wallet address)


First dividend will be paid on Wednesday Jan 23 (USA time).
All dividends accrued up until Tuesday will be included in the Wednesday dividend. You can see all the dividends accrued (and where they came from) by opening the spreadsheet (also found on the second post) and clicking on the "Dividends" sheet (at the bottom).
Management fees will also be shown on the Dividends sheet.

[Carnth]

Dividend to be paid tomorrow will be a total of BTC0.11955969
I have waived the management fee as a thank you to everyone who has taken the first step with me to get this fund going.


Future outlook-my guess as to what's to come:
ASICs still are a huge concern for everyone involved with Bitcoin mining. Expect increased market volatility.

Avalon has announced that they have shipped a couple of units. At this time, there is no way for sure to know if this is true as no one has come forward to say that they have one in their possession.

One thing is certain, the mining company that can get their ASIC equipment first will have a huge advantage and not to mention an equally huge jump in price.

[Carnth]

The first dividend payment was successful!
The Value of GLARI Mining Project (GMP) jumped significantly. Because of this, the NAV per share has risen to .54 BTC.


Future outlook-my guess as to what's to come:
Since Avalon has announced its release of their ASIC mining devices, GMP is in position to receive Avalon ASIC devices in Batch 2.

In other news, it looks like bASIC is calling it quits.  bASIC has promised to refund all pre-orders, so a move to a different ASIC producer shouldn't be difficult. But, mining companies who chose to go with bASIC will now be in the back of the queue for other ASIC devices.

Be very cautious when investing. Watch for continued volatility as the ASIC drama continues.

[Carnth]

This week, our position in COGNITIVE took a hit; the weekly average price is down to .33 from .42.
This has caused the NAV per share to fall to .52

This week's dividends of 0.33851856 will be paid tomorrow night on Jan 30, USA time.
The Management Fee has once again been waived. Thank you to all who have invested.



I would like your thoughts on setting up this fund on BitFunder.
If you only have an account on Bitfunder, would you want to buy shares in this fund?
Because of the fees Bitfunder charges, would you buy shares at a 1% premium over the price sold on BTC-TC?

[BitcoinMint.US]

I would like your thoughts on setting up this fund on BitFunder.
If you only have an account on Bitfunder, would you want to buy shares in this fund?
Because of the fees Bitfunder charges, would you buy shares at a 1% premium over the price sold on BTC-TC?

Will it be 1 combined fund listed on 2 exchanges, or 2 separate funds that follow the same contract/goals?

I don't have an account on BitFunder because of the weird 3rd party BTC transfer requirement, but it does seem like BitFunder could benefit from this listing.

I don't think a 1% premium makes much of a difference if it is due to the exchange charging higher fees, so long as it is a combined fund across 2 exchanges.

Good luck.  This fund keeps getting more exciting.

[Carnth]

I don't think a 1% premium makes much of a difference if it is due to the exchange charging higher fees,

This is exactly the reason. Bitfunder charges 1% fees only to the seller, which the fund would have to bare. The fee follows a sliding scale which can be found here: https://bitfunder.com/help

so long as it is a combined fund across 2 exchanges.

Yes, it would be a combined fund across 2 exchanges. A first in the crypto-currency world if I'm not mistaken.

Good luck.  This fund keeps getting more exciting.

Thank you very much for your interest.


There could also be extra benefits as well such as the ability to transfer shares from one exchange to the other.
I am curious about any other interest. I would be willing to do this if I can justify the Asset Creation fee.

[burnside]

I don't think a 1% premium makes much of a difference if it is due to the exchange charging higher fees,

This is exactly the reason. Bitfunder charges 1% fees only to the seller, which the fund would have to bare. The fee follows a sliding scale which can be found here: https://bitfunder.com/help

so long as it is a combined fund across 2 exchanges.

Yes, it would be a combined fund across 2 exchanges. A first in the crypto-currency world if I'm not mistaken.

Good luck.  This fund keeps getting more exciting.

Thank you very much for your interest.


There could also be extra benefits as well such as the ability to transfer shares from one exchange to the other.
I am curious about any other interest. I would be willing to do this if I can justify the Asset Creation fee.

I think it's a good thing for everyone involved.  It'd bring a bunch of the btct.co mining companies more exposure, it'd bring more investment options to BitFunder users, and it'd bring more cash into the fund with which to diversify and extend the investments.

Seems like a win-win-win. 

[Liquid]

So is this a good fund to invest in ?

[Deprived]

If you 're going to list it on two sites I'd suggest making one the main and the other a pass-through to it.

If there's ever any votes, somewhere needs to have the official result - and they can't both vote in one another's motions.  The pass-through's vote would end before the main vote - then you'd reflect their votes in the main one by using 2 proxy accounts (one to vote yes, other to vote no) - you couldnt vote the pass-through as a block if it could be of similar or greater magnitude to the main one.

[Liquid]

If you 're going to list it on two sites I'd suggest making one the main and the other a pass-through to it.

If there's ever any votes, somewhere needs to have the official result - and they can't both vote in one another's motions.  The pass-through's vote would end before the main vote - then you'd reflect their votes in the main one by using 2 proxy accounts (one to vote yes, other to vote no) - you couldnt vote the pass-through as a block if it could be of similar or greater magnitude to the main one.

Hey Deprived do you have any securities in BTC TC ?