Finally, Bitcoin Core = REKT

[blunderer]

...
The Classic devs are a bunch of morons that wouldn't be able to run the full node unless they keep relying on Core dev keeping it up to date, what happens when Core devs get fed up?, that's why no one with a functional brain is supporting Classic...

I take it core devs are are running all of these?

[Zarathustra]

You're not even trying anymore which makes me wonder if you've become desperate? You're just working against Core and in favor of Classic. Usually most of the stuff that you've written is false.

Lauda, you are such a lying, misdirecting shill.  I am hardly desperate....  I moved most of my bitcoins into Ethereum.  I'm up 30%.  If you and the rest of the idiots sitting around in denial about Core's demise continue to make it clear you are willing to kill Bitcoin if you can't have your way.... then I'll move the rest of my coins into Ethereum.  And I WILL make money.  Now, after you guys are gone, and Classic Devs back in charge.... I will come back into bitcoin.

But the FUD, misdirection, lies, and sabotage that is being played by Core/Blockstream supporters is getting dangerous, and I thnk this Fork may turn out very badly for people not careful.  What bothers me is that while MOST people may not step on any financial disater mines during hte Fork..... I think Core Supporters will stop at nothing, including spreading lies that may drive some hapless uninformed people to exchange coins that render them useless on the Core chain.  

Innocents will lose money.... because of people like you.

The Classic devs are a bunch of morons that wouldn't be able to run the full node unless they keep relying on Core devs keeping it up to date, what happens when Core devs get fed up?, that's why no one with a functional brain is supporting Classic.
Who has come up with SegWit? Core devs. Who has come up with Confidential Transactions? Core devs. Who has come up with the whole sidechains thing? Core devs. Who has come up with Libsecp256k1? Core devs. Who has come up with OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY? Core devs. I can continue all day.
What the fuck have Classic devs done? Exactly. When they can prove to do something of substance, they will be worth a contender to run the full node. Until then, anyone willing to put those guys in charge deserves bankruptcy.
You can keep FUDing with your low IQ replies while Core devs keep making great things.

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

[keepdoing]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

[Amph]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

as long as bitcoin succeed does it matter? no, who care who is behind the scene this thing is decentralized or at least is supposed to be so

[keepdoing]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

as long as bitcoin succeed does it matter? no, who care who is behind the scene this thing is decentralized or at least is supposed to be so

But will it succeed.  And what percent of market share will it permanently lose due to the bad press, delays, and financial carnage that will undoubtedly come from the actions these few diehard bitcoin kidnapping rebels...... the Core/Blockstream Hijaakers......  These Crypto-Terrorists.....  That is the issue.

[sgbett]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

What damage can <25% of hashrate do?

[blackraven1425]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

What damage can <25% of hashrate do?

At this level my guess is that would just decrease the rhythm of diff increase for a few days or weeks, and later on everthing would go back to normal again.

[sgbett]

The most senior devs already left the sinking core ship. More will follow.

The question is really not how many will leave.  Its how many will stay and fight, and how much damage will they do.

What damage can <25% of hashrate do?

At this level my guess is that would just decrease the rhythm of diff increase for a few days or weeks, and later on everthing would go back to normal again.

i'd agree, and given the 750 mined blocks courtesy period extended to those who haven't upgraded I think it would be in the best interest of any stubborn minority to accept the consensus view

[Lauda]

i'd agree, and given the 750 mined blocks courtesy period extended to those who haven't upgraded I think it would be in the best interest of any stubborn minority to accept the consensus view

In other words, the remaining 25% won't join because they agree to the proposal, they will join because they have no other choice (in case that this does really happen). Where quitting completely is not a choice.

[chek2fire]

i'd agree, and given the 750 mined blocks courtesy period extended to those who haven't upgraded I think it would be in the best interest of any stubborn minority to accept the consensus view

In other words, the remaining 25% won't join because they agree to the proposal, they will join because they have no other choice (in case that this does really happen). Where quitting completely is not a choice.

the most possible scenario is the rest 25% to keep running the old bitcoin system and to change the mining system and ban asic miners. And i am very sure that for many months we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other.

[blunderer]

i'd agree, and given the 750 mined blocks courtesy period extended to those who haven't upgraded I think it would be in the best interest of any stubborn minority to accept the consensus view

In other words, the remaining 25% won't join because they agree to their proposal, they will most likely join because they have to (in case that this does really happen).

In other words, they're free to do what they want, just as they are now; free market. If you're suggesting that sticking by their guns would become an exercise in futility, that's just the way life works: You can't always get what you want.
P.S. Since this sort of "buht maa, that's so unfair!" arguments popped up so often, humanity invented tort law (read: binding contracts, with courts to interpret them & jackbooted thugs to enforce the courts' decisions).
Because otherwise we get this.

[Lauda]

In other words, they're free to do what they want, just as they are now; free market. If you're suggesting that sticking by their guns would become an exercise in futility, that's just the way life works: You can't always get what you want.

I don't think that the right word is choice here. A choice would be agreeing to a proposal between two or more. This is more of a ultimatum, either you join or you quit. Mining on the old and slow chain is pointless though.

the most possible scenario is the rest 25% to keep running the old bitcoin system and to change the mining system and ban asic miners. And i am very sure that for many months we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other.

Why would the remaining miners agree to make their equipment invalid?

[blunderer]

In other words, they're free to do what they want, just as they are now; free market. If you're suggesting that sticking by their guns would become an exercise in futility, that's just the way life works: You can't always get what you want.

I don't think that the right word is choice here. A choice would be agreeing to a proposal between two or more. This is more of a ultimatum, either you join or you quit. Mining on the old and slow chain is pointless though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice
Works for me.

[chek2fire]

In other words, they're free to do what they want, just as they are now; free market. If you're suggesting that sticking by their guns would become an exercise in futility, that's just the way life works: You can't always get what you want.

I don't think that the right word is choice here. A choice would be agreeing to a proposal between two or more. This is more of a ultimatum, either you join or you quit. Mining on the old and slow chain is pointless though.

the most possible scenario is the rest 25% to keep running the old bitcoin system and to change the mining system and ban asic miners. And i am very sure that for many months we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other.

Why would the remaining miners agree to make their equipment invalid?

they will not but is the best defence if a fork like this will happen

[Lauda]

they will not but is the best defence if a fork like this will happen

That is debatable although it would make sense to upgrade the chain to SHA3 and reconfigure some other things. It would be quite unfortunate if the network split into two parts, this would be quite harmful for both sides.

[Cuidler]

the most possible scenario is the rest 25% to keep running the old bitcoin system and to change the mining system and ban asic miners. And i am very sure that for many months we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other.

Why would the remaining miners agree to make their equipment invalid?

Your right, changing the PoW algo would be BitcoinCore decission, not miners decission. So Instead of about 20% support it would be changed to only hardcore fans wanting to back old Bitcoin with GPUs. Then the 20% of ASIC miners eighter switch to new Bitcoin rules, start supporting other SHA2 coin or sell mining equipment.

And about "we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other", I dont think there is much incentive for the 20% minority to continue with 1MB blocks after the 28 days grace period, but let see who is right (if there really become over 75% support for the 2MB modification)

[Lauda]

Your right, changing the PoW algo would be BitcoinCore decission, not miners decission. So Instead of about 20% support it would be changed to only hardcore fans wanting to back old Bitcoin with GPUs. Then the 20% of ASIC miners eighter switch to new Bitcoin rules, start supporting other SHA2 coin or sell mining equipment.

It depends though; I wouldn't say "hardcore fans" as there were a lot of people mining with a lot of GPU's before the ASICs got released.

And about "we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other", I dont think there is much incentive for the 20% minority to continue with 1MB blocks after the 28 days grace period, but let see who is right (if there really become over 75% support for the 2MB modification)

It does not make sense to join that "team". Toomin won't even go with Bitcoin Core 0.12 (libsecp256k1 ), but rather 0.11.2 (i.e. it is possible that he is unable to apply the changes himself). Some might attack me for stating this, however I only said that it is a possibility. I can't find a good reason for which the changes should not be included in this release.

[gijoes]

Why don't you bloatblockers just fork off and enjoy your "Classic" crapcoin without any definite rules (anything is up to vote!) Oh, and don't forget that it doesn't even have any guarantee of 21M hard cap: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4326ya/jonathan_toomim_on_bitcoin_classic_everything_can/

Enjoy this clown show! You well deserve it. Personally, I'll sell all the Classiccoins after the split while stupid people still think it's worth shit. And I'll reinvest it all in real bitcoins (no, the Classic clown show won't be able to monopolize mining - miners will switch back to Bitcoin as soon as they see how low Classiccoin sinks). And it seems that all the reasonable people will follow this simple strategy as well: http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/if-non-core-hard-fork-wins-major-holders-will-sell-btc-driving-price-into-the-ground

[Amph]

i'd agree, and given the 750 mined blocks courtesy period extended to those who haven't upgraded I think it would be in the best interest of any stubborn minority to accept the consensus view

In other words, the remaining 25% won't join because they agree to the proposal, they will join because they have no other choice (in case that this does really happen). Where quitting completely is not a choice.

the most possible scenario is the rest 25% to keep running the old bitcoin system and to change the mining system and ban asic miners. And i am very sure that for many months we will have two crap coins with no value at all and with 21 supply coins each other.

which basically would kill bitcoin, not completely, but it would kill it by the adoption pow, which is kinda the same

the only good thing will be plenty fo cheap coins...

[Cuidler]

It does not make sense to join that "team". Toomin won't even go with Bitcoin Core 0.12 (libsecp256k1 ), but rather 0.11.2 (i.e. it is possible that he is unable to apply the changes himself). Some might attack me for stating this, however I only said that it is a possibility. I can't find a good reason for which the changes should not be included in this release.

Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core is 0.11.2, thats why it is recommened to patch this version now if you support 2 MB.

Forget about "teams". Compile yourselves from source you wish to use and stop trusting authorites, this is only way to make Bitcoin decentralized. If you cant and need binaries, there is no need to stick with one team if you loose trust in the team, and you have to look for alternatives - this is what is happenig now.