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Author Topic: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation  (Read 10786 times)
TradeFortress
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January 04, 2013, 07:45:01 AM
 #1

Did you know that 80% of new coins are given to the FreiCoin Foundation. Yes, really. That's basically taxation. Foundation, Central FreiCoin Reserve. Developer's personal wallet. Whatever you call it, it means one thing - your coins are going to hard coded addresses. Pump'n'dump (foundation sells their 80%, crashing price to zero and making a nice profit for the devs) are highly possible. Don't forget about how the project wasn't promoted in the first few days to give the insiders extra time to mine their own coins.

Freicoin foundation member:
Quote
Total coins in miner's hands are only around 2 million
yet there has being over 10 MILLION Freicoins created. Make no mistake - if you are not a foundation member, you are the 99% and they are the 1%.

Cryptocurrencies are open because we vote with our hashing power. So why are you voting for 80% of coins YOU should be getting going to the foundation? Vote with your hashing power - the way satoshi envisioned it in his white paper - and join this fork today.

FORK:
https://github.com/gladoscc/freicoin

It will simply accept blocks WITHOUT the 80% "tax". All of blocks generated will be accepted by the FreiCoin network. Soon, this network will replace the one running the Foundation backdoor.

What to do
I'm a user > Download and make this. Remove existing Freicoin. Your existing wallets and blockchain will work seamlessly. Feel happy that you're protecting the network.
I'm a pool operator > Download and replace the existing Freicoin with this. Once 51% of hashpower uses this code, this fork will be updated to stop paying the 80% tax and giving it to miners.
I'm a developer > Work on this fork - even fork it if you'd like. Unlike the Foundation version, you're not going to get proceeds from the forced tax, but that's open development.


When a significant amount of people have migrated to this fork, it will be changed so that it will generate blocks without the forced budget to hard coded addresses. It will also be kept up to date with each release of Freicoin.

FAQ

Q. If I run this fork will there be any advantages to me?
A. Yes, by running this fork you will ensure that we will be able to move to no 80% tax as soon as possible. This helps us protect against a Pump'n'Dump by the invisible freicoin foundation, and means that you (the miner) will get 5x mining profits until a certain block number.

Q. If I run this fork will there be any disadvantages to me?
A. Nope. All of your shares, blocks, etc will be accepted.

Q. If I run this fork will there be any advantages to Freicoin?
A. Yes! It will allow us to migrate to a safer network without pump'n'dump by the FreiCoin foundation, and forced taxation. It is planned to reject all transactions coming from the built in tax collection addresses.

Q. Is this going to work?
A. Of course! Miners and pools will see that they will make more and protect FreiCoin. This is going to be a historical moment in alt currencies Smiley

Q. Have you embedded your own addresses into it?
A. It's open source. You can check for yourself!

Q. Can I work on this fork?
A. Feel free to! Just submit a pull request and it will be discussed.

Q. How much is mining going to be more profitable?
A. 5 times! Yes, that's right. And it's not going to create any more coins!

Pools, switch to this fork today Smiley There's no reason why not to, as there are no downsides.

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January 04, 2013, 08:06:15 AM
 #2

LOL make your own coin and screw the original devs.

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January 04, 2013, 08:09:03 AM
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LOL make your own coin and screw the original devs.
Yes, screw the devs out of their 80% that they are "entitled" to... so they can pump'n'dump!

Bitcoin is an open source project. If the creator of 7 ZIP decided to add a secret backdoor so he can decrypt everyone's encrypted files, then there's going to be a new fork without that feature. If there's any flaws that the dev won't fix, fork it.

The whole point of *coin is that you vote with your hashing power. That's what Satoshi envisioned, and this fork is exactly in that direction and will be the first real world example in the cryptocurrency world.

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January 04, 2013, 08:11:13 AM
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Annnnnnd its outs the park! lmfao

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January 04, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
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Start your miners guys. You will get much more FRC than if you mine Maaku's version.

More coins for all!  Grin Grin Grin

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January 04, 2013, 08:17:12 AM
 #6

Easy to make your own fork an remove the 80%

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January 04, 2013, 08:19:52 AM
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Start your miners guys. You will get much more FRC than if you mine Maaku's version.

More coins for all!  Grin Grin Grin

False. More coins will not be created.

When this fork reaches stage two, the DISTRIBUTION will be changed. Still the same amount of coins.

Let's use BTC as an example. Right now, each block can have 25BTC from coinbase. But the Bitcoin Foundation takes 20 bitcoins out of the 25 BTC, and you only get 5 btc per block.


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January 04, 2013, 08:44:47 AM
 #8

Q. If I run this fork will there be any disadvantages to me?
A. Nope. All of your shares, blocks, etc will be accepted.

This is incorrect. Any block that does not contain a valid budgetary output is summarily rejected by the Freicoin network, regardless of the hash-power thrown at this fork.

Want to share in the 80% distribution? Then spend your time putting together a grant proposal for something constructive.

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January 04, 2013, 08:51:27 AM
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Q. If I run this fork will there be any disadvantages to me?
A. Nope. All of your shares, blocks, etc will be accepted.

This is incorrect. Any block that does not contain a valid budgetary output is summarily rejected by the Freicoin network, regardless of the hash-power thrown at this fork.

Want to share in the 80% distribution? Then spend your time putting together a grant proposal for something constructive.
Your claim that this is incorrect is incorrect, because it does generate your forced tax at the current moment. But it will not soon, and it will block all of your foundation (aka "federal freicoin reserve", a private, exclusive group with 80% control of the monetary supply) will be blacklisted.

This fork will ACCEPT blocks without the forced tax.

It should be noted that Makuu and other Foundation/Reserve members have a direct monetary benefit and goal to disencourage you from using this fork.
Meanwhile, I'm not making any profit out of this like him.

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January 04, 2013, 08:57:56 AM
 #10

Your claim that this is incorrect is incorrect, because it does generate your forced tax at the current moment. But it will not soon, and it will block all of your foundation (aka "federal freicoin reserve", a private, exclusive group with 80% control of the monetary supply) will be blacklisted.

?

That sentence doesn't even make sense. You've made a hard-fork. Blocks created by your client are rejected by the network. Nodes running your client get blacklisted by the rest of the network for forwarding invalid blocks as a denial-of-service protection. By transacting in the forked chain you run the risk of having your coins stolen on the main chain. You could have million times the hash of the rest of the network and it wouldn't matter: the fork would still be invalid and summarily rejected. The OP incorrectly implies otherwise.

We've said this so many times I've simply given up on repeating myself. But here it goes once more: every single satoshi of the Foundation outputs will be given out in grants in an open, transparent process. You can take part in that discussion here:

http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-foundation-development-thread-t81.html

Or simply start drafting your own grant proposal.

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January 04, 2013, 09:08:05 AM
 #11

Your claim that this is incorrect is incorrect, because it does generate your forced tax at the current moment. But it will not soon, and it will block all of your foundation (aka "federal freicoin reserve", a private, exclusive group with 80% control of the monetary supply) will be blacklisted.

?

That sentence doesn't even make sense. You've made a hard-fork. Blocks created by your client are rejected by the network. Nodes running your client get blacklisted by the rest of the network for forwarding invalid blocks as a denial-of-service protection. The OP incorrectly implies otherwise. You could have million times the hash of the rest of the network and it wouldn't matter.

We've said this so many times I've simply given up on repeating myself. But here it goes once more: every single satoshi of the Foundation outputs will be given out in grants in an open, transparent process. You can take part in that discussion here:

http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-foundation-development-thread-t81.html

Or simply start drafting your own grant proposal.

1. Somehow you're failing to comprehend it. Blocks created by this client will not be rejected by "the network" at the moment.

There isn't just the network. There is multiple networks. Let's call it the Central Freicoin Reserve network. We have this Open Decentralized Network. These two networks will conflict, but the blissful days of expecting nobody will fork an open source project like you did for bitcoin are over.

2. Blocks created by YOUR (80% goes for you to spend on a "open transparent process" see later) client will be rejected by this network, which will beat "your" network simply because people will migrate given the choice. I like how you (not singular, but foundation) think you own Freicoin, the network, and all coins, which is probably why you decided to even come up with this 80% idea. No. This, along with every bitcoin fork, is an open source project.

3. It just takes a few pools to see the benefits in making Freicoin more decentralized, secure, and better for miners (vs better for your foundation). Your claim would have some merit if everyone has a fair say into the matter, because it's not hard to see that the Foundation won't reject anything that benefits them or their members. Like Congress passing themselves a pay increase - some members would vote no to appear better knowing that it will pass, but they all want it.

Open transparent process? Heck, go look at what happened with OpenOffice and LibreOffice. Sure, open source and stuff, but people migrate if you decide to eat the cake selfishly.

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January 04, 2013, 09:17:11 AM
 #12

I don't think that "compatible fork" will work. Even if it does, you're getting a different distribution than was designed, which, by the way, was already different from bitcoin's (better IMO): http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-generation-graph-t41.html
I haven't bothered to calculate what distribution you would get though, but I think you will take lots of years to get final fixed supply.

I don't think we need more profit for miners, I would rather give it to the free software foundation (for example) even if they "sell them into existence". But if you really want this, I would start a new fork (without trying compatibility) from scratch.


Block reward will not be changed. The coin creation will not be changed. Only the distribution will. Instead of putting 80% to the developers (you could call the 1%), 100% is given to the miners.

Vote with your hashpower. It's how cryptocoins are decentralized and open.

You don't understand, the generation curve was adapted after the 80% fund was decided upon. You need to change it back if you want the initial fixed supply to be out in a few years. Otherwise you will issue 20% in 2 years and then it will take many more years to issue the rest.

Also, about compatibility...it's like when a chain suffers a time travel attack. Hashing power doesn't matter: honest nodes will still take the last checkpoint as their base. To do what you want, you would have to convince all the other nodes to accept your hard fork, otherwise the original chain will just continue.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
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January 04, 2013, 09:19:42 AM
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Oh I see. You're looking to get over 51% of the FRC hashing power running this fork. Like a hostile takeover.

This needs to be a new chain not a takeover. Maaku I don't suppose you'd be interested in running a demurrage coin without the 80% non-miner distribution.
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January 04, 2013, 09:22:42 AM
 #14

1. Somehow you're failing to comprehend it. Blocks created by this client will not be rejected by the network at the moment.

False (try it). Specifically, see lines #2004-2005 of main.cpp. And no, it doesn't matter if you change that line either - it only matters what code the rest of the network is using.

I like how you (not singular, but foundation) think you own Freicoin, the network, and all coins, which is probably why you decided to even come up with this 80% idea.

Come back to reality. Industrial mining has become dominated by a privileged technological elite. Maybe when bitcoin started it was democratic (before GPU mining, before ASICs), but it certainly isn't anymore. The purpose of an initial distribution is to get currency in the hands of everybody as quickly as possible, and to get money flowing in the marketplaces (and not just the currency markets). If you have a good idea for accomplishing that goal in a fair and democratic manor, submit it to us. Or come work with us and become a part of the foundation.

3. Every single satoshi that you're taking in right now will be blacklisted and won't be able to spent once this network takes over. And it will - it just takes a few pools to see the benefits in making Freicoin more decentralized, secure, and better for miners (vs your foundation).
20% + perpetual subsidy of an active, vibrant economy is worth infinitely more than 100% of a dead coin.

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January 04, 2013, 09:27:25 AM
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1. Somehow you're failing to comprehend it. Blocks created by this client will not be rejected by the network at the moment.

False (try it). Specifically, see lines #2004-2005 of main.cpp. And no, it doesn't matter if you change that line either - it only matters what code the rest of the network is using.

I like how you (not singular, but foundation) think you own Freicoin, the network, and all coins, which is probably why you decided to even come up with this 80% idea.

Come back to reality. Industrial mining has become dominated by a privileged technological elite. Maybe when bitcoin started it was democratic (before GPU mining, before ASICs), but it certainly isn't anymore. The purpose of an initial distribution is to get currency in the hands of everybody as quickly as possible, and to get money flowing in the marketplaces (and not just the currency markets). If you have a good idea for accomplishing that goal in a fair and democratic manor, submit it to us. Or come work with us and become a part of the foundation.

3. Every single satoshi that you're taking in right now will be blacklisted and won't be able to spent once this network takes over. And it will - it just takes a few pools to see the benefits in making Freicoin more decentralized, secure, and better for miners (vs your foundation).
20% + perpetual subsidy of an active, vibrant economy is worth infinitely more than 100% of a dead coin.

My impression of original freicoin developers have changed dramatically after seeing how they spread FUD to get their 80% cut.

THIS WILL NOT BE REJECTED BY THE NETWORK. Wanna know why? Because the blocks are still valid to the network with the 80% foundation backdoor.

"come work with us"

Is that what you're seriously saying? "Come work with the Feds - we can print you a bit USD if you support us!"

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January 04, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
 #16

Oh I see. You're looking to get over 51% of the FRC hashing power running this fork. Like a hostile takeover.

This needs to be a new chain not a takeover. Maaku I don't suppose you'd be interested in running a demurrage coin without the 80% non-miner distribution.

Considering how ~80% of the current Freicoins in existence are owned by Foundation or Foundation members, that might be a good idea.

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January 04, 2013, 09:36:32 AM
 #17

if your fork really works, probably you will kill Freicoin. But in the end, the miners will decide that Grin

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January 04, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
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if your fork really works, probably you will kill Freicoin. But in the end, the miners will decide that Grin
This won't kill Freicoin. It'll kill the foundation from controlling 80% of it Smiley

Mine Freicoin? Instead of 80% of it going to the foundation, make 80% of it go to you just like how it's supposed to be. Download and make this fork the exact way you did it previously Smiley

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January 04, 2013, 10:10:34 AM
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THIS WILL NOT BE REJECTED BY THE NETWORK. Wanna know why? Because the blocks are still valid to the network with the 80% foundation backdoor issuing method.

Ok, then when you your fork starts rejecting them it will be a hard fork. At that point honest nodes will start ignoring your branch of the chain.

And again, even if all nodes accepted your hard fork, if you don't change the reward for miners formula it will take many many years to have a fixed supply. We wanted less years than bitcoin even before the 80% fund decision and your fork will take many more than bitcoin.

It's like when IXcoin creator thought he was issuing the 21 M twice as fast when in fact with his original code he was issuing 42 M in the same time. You just don't understand "your own" code.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
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January 04, 2013, 10:19:54 AM
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THIS WILL NOT BE REJECTED BY THE NETWORK. Wanna know why? Because the blocks are still valid to the network with the 80% foundation backdoor issuing method.

Ok, then when you your fork starts rejecting them it will be a hard fork. At that point honest nodes will start ignoring your branch of the chain.

And again, even if all nodes accepted your hard fork, if you don't change the reward for miners formula it will take many many years to have a fixed supply. We wanted less years than bitcoin even before the 80% fund decision and your fork will take many more than bitcoin.

It's like when IXcoin creator thought he was issuing the 21 M twice as fast when in fact with his original code he was issuing 42 M in the same time. You just don't understand "your own" code.

By "honest" nodes, you mean nodes that pays the 80% tax? Hmm? By using this fork right now, you're voting with your hashrate.

Also, this fork will put MORE frc in the hands of miners and users, instead of more frc into the foundation. It's basically what happens if the Foundation Reserve distributed their self-printed to everyone in a open, decentralized and fair manner.

You can discuss about how mandating 80% of mined coins goes to you is honest, but at the end of the day, the network, the miners and the users makes the decision on which version they're going to use.

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